Leinart or Young, Young or Leinart

jegirouard · 01-11-2006, 08:20 PM

I think that both of these QB's will be great NFL players, but who is better for the saints.
I think I still like the idea of trading down for Hawk, but I don't see that happening so...

LongTimeFan · 01-11-2006, 08:25 PM

I wouldn't mind having Young as a Saint, I think he's the complete package, he can hurt you with his arm or his running ability, what I like about him is he can run but more so is that he's comfortable in the pocket where a M. Vick isn't, we see what Vick does to defenses just think how hard it would be to defend Young, I hope to see him in N.O this year.

jegirouard · 01-11-2006, 08:29 PM

I think i agree with you, because when i watched the national championship game, a lot of has completions were on the run when he was flushed out of the pocket and he created time for his recievers to get open.
I could see him in black and gold, but could he see himself in N.O.

LongTimeFan · 01-11-2006, 08:35 PM

I wonder what the percentage is of QB's taken from the draft that amounted to anything, wouldn't want to see another Tim Couch or Joey Harrington, not that I think Young would be unsuccessful in the NFL but it is something to think about.

TheDeuce · 01-11-2006, 09:56 PM

I'll take Matt Leinart. The guy has been a proven winner for longer, has a better arm, better mechanics, is more NFL ready, and is way way way way way way more intelligent than Vince Young. Take nothing away from Vince Young, his athleticism at the quarterback position is only eclipsed by the incomparable Michael Vick, but I just don't think he'll be as good in the pros as Leinart. Leinart has come from a pro-style offense, whereas VY comes from a weird option-type offense. I think the guy can run, as he demonstrated in the Rose Bowl, but I don't think he'll be that good in the NFL. He's not as fast as Michael Vick, and definitely not as elusive. Because of this, I believe that he won't be able to move as well against defenses as Vick. Also, his arm is probably comparable to Vick's, which we all know, isn't so great in the NFL.

When looking at the teams that UT played this season with good defenses, I believe you can see that VY can kill a mediocre-bad defense with his legs, but he's not so effective against the good ones.

Ohio State (4th in country in total defense) - 20 rushes, 76 yards, 3.8 ypc, long of 32
Oklahoma (16th in country in total defense) - 17 rushes, 45 yards, 2.6 ypc, long of 15
Kansas (19th in country in total defense) - 6 rushes, -4 yards, -.7 ypc, long of 6
Texas A&M - 11 rushes, 19 yards, 1.7 ypc, long of 12

USC (40th in country in total defense) - 19 rushes, 200 yards, 10.5 ypc, long of 45
Colorado (44th in country in total defense) - 1st game - 10 rushes, 58 yards, 5.8 ypc, long of 16
Championship game - 8 rushes, 57 yards, 7.1 ypc, long of 18

These are just a few of the stats from UT games this season, and I think you can see that for the most part, when Vince Young went up against good defenses (defenses that could actually tackle unlike USC's), he had trouble on the ground, never averaging over 4 yards per carry in one game against a team with a defense ranked in the top 19 in the country. His effectiveness as a runner obviously takes a huge crack when he goes up against fast, funadmentally tackling teams. These are the types of defenses that he is going to be facing in the NFL. This is just my opinion, but it is why I believe that his ground game won't be as effective as it was in college. If you take away his ground game, I'm not sure Young would be able to be the kind of player he has been in college on just his arm.

However, even if Young was able to be effective on the ground, I'd still take Leinart. Let's look at what Vince Young did in the Rose Bowl, in what was a wonderful performance. He ran 19 times for 200 yards, averaging 10.5 ypc. He also threw the ball for 267 yards on 30/40 passing (thats 75%) for an average completion of 6.7 yards. What you must remember is that VY was playing against a USC defense that was ranked 40th in total defense in the country, and their passing defense wasn't even in the top 50 (sorry, my source doens't go any higher than 50!). So overall, VY had one of the best performances ever in a bowl game, but being objective, he also did it against a mediocre defense and an even worse passing defense.

Now let's look at what Matt Leinart did in the Rose Bowl. He threw for 365 yards on 29/40 passing (72.5%) and a touchdown. He didn't do anything on the ground. However, you must keep a few things in mind. For starters, Texas was the #6 total defense in the country, only giving up 280.6 yards per game. Even better was there passing defense which gave up only 155.9 yards per game, and ranked 5th nationally. And then, even better than that, UT's defense was ranked 2nd in passing efficiency defense (a very interesting stat http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo..._PER_GAME.html. So, you can see that Leinart was facing a defense that was immensely better than what Vince YOung was facing, and he made them pay by more than doubling what the yards they had allowed on average per game through the air.

Overall, this is why I would take Matt Leinart. In my honest opinion, I hold no grudges, and I do think VY is a spectacular talent, and I would be very curious to see what he could do with some mechanics-work, but I think that Matt Leinart is the guy for the Saints. He's a guy who hates to lose, has great intangibles, is super intelligent, has a MUCH more accurate arm than any QB to come out in a long time, has great size at 6'5", and is quicker than most people give him credit for. His pure athletic ability might not be as great as YOung's, but I believe his future as a pro-style quarterback where he relies on his arm offers Leinart a chance to be a greater player than Young who will have to hope that his legs are quick enough to get him out of NFL defense's ways. And trust me, he's not going to face any defenses nearly as poor as USC's.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-11-2006, 09:58 PM

...none of the above...

AJ Hawk...

CheramieIII · 01-11-2006, 10:07 PM

...none of the above...

AJ Hawk...

Ditto.... and there are some mocks just updated today that show Houston taking Young and the Saints drafting Bush. I guess we can wait for defense. NOT!!

shonboy · 01-11-2006, 10:57 PM

we must take vy. heres y....A.brooks,,,,,progressively gotten worse...T.bouman---who? amac...who knows we first have to save the team, then we play football. vy will fill the stands, create a home field advantage,alah mike vic...we need a superstar to keep the team here.....

AllSaints · 01-12-2006, 06:49 AM

I think Leinart will fill the stands....

jergensl · 01-12-2006, 07:21 AM

GREAT post deuce.

about aj hawk. i have seen a lot of scouts who say that carpenter is not really that far off from hawk and carpenter is expected to be a second round pick.

leinhart(or young) and carpenter
or
hawk and jacobs(or broyle) the best qbs available in the 2nd round
which would you rather have?

01-11-2006, 08:20 PM	#1
jegirouard 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 121	Leinart or Young, Young or Leinart I think that both of these QB's will be great NFL players, but who is better for the saints. I think I still like the idea of trading down for Hawk, but I don't see that happening so...
jegirouard 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 121

01-11-2006, 08:25 PM	#2
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	RE: Leinart or Young, Young or Leinart I wouldn't mind having Young as a Saint, I think he's the complete package, he can hurt you with his arm or his running ability, what I like about him is he can run but more so is that he's comfortable in the pocket where a M. Vick isn't, we see what Vick does to defenses just think how hard it would be to defend Young, I hope to see him in N.O this year.

01-11-2006, 08:29 PM	#3
jegirouard 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 121	RE: Leinart or Young, Young or Leinart I think i agree with you, because when i watched the national championship game, a lot of has completions were on the run when he was flushed out of the pocket and he created time for his recievers to get open. I could see him in black and gold, but could he see himself in N.O.
jegirouard 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 121

01-11-2006, 08:35 PM	#4
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	RE: Leinart or Young, Young or Leinart I wonder what the percentage is of QB's taken from the draft that amounted to anything, wouldn't want to see another Tim Couch or Joey Harrington, not that I think Young would be unsuccessful in the NFL but it is something to think about.

01-11-2006, 09:56 PM	#5
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: Leinart or Young, Young or Leinart I'll take Matt Leinart. The guy has been a proven winner for longer, has a better arm, better mechanics, is more NFL ready, and is way way way way way way more intelligent than Vince Young. Take nothing away from Vince Young, his athleticism at the quarterback position is only eclipsed by the incomparable Michael Vick, but I just don't think he'll be as good in the pros as Leinart. Leinart has come from a pro-style offense, whereas VY comes from a weird option-type offense. I think the guy can run, as he demonstrated in the Rose Bowl, but I don't think he'll be that good in the NFL. He's not as fast as Michael Vick, and definitely not as elusive. Because of this, I believe that he won't be able to move as well against defenses as Vick. Also, his arm is probably comparable to Vick's, which we all know, isn't so great in the NFL. When looking at the teams that UT played this season with good defenses, I believe you can see that VY can kill a mediocre-bad defense with his legs, but he's not so effective against the good ones. Ohio State (4th in country in total defense) - 20 rushes, 76 yards, 3.8 ypc, long of 32 Oklahoma (16th in country in total defense) - 17 rushes, 45 yards, 2.6 ypc, long of 15 Kansas (19th in country in total defense) - 6 rushes, -4 yards, -.7 ypc, long of 6 Texas A&M - 11 rushes, 19 yards, 1.7 ypc, long of 12 USC (40th in country in total defense) - 19 rushes, 200 yards, 10.5 ypc, long of 45 Colorado (44th in country in total defense) - 1st game - 10 rushes, 58 yards, 5.8 ypc, long of 16 Championship game - 8 rushes, 57 yards, 7.1 ypc, long of 18 These are just a few of the stats from UT games this season, and I think you can see that for the most part, when Vince Young went up against good defenses (defenses that could actually tackle unlike USC's), he had trouble on the ground, never averaging over 4 yards per carry in one game against a team with a defense ranked in the top 19 in the country. His effectiveness as a runner obviously takes a huge crack when he goes up against fast, funadmentally tackling teams. These are the types of defenses that he is going to be facing in the NFL. This is just my opinion, but it is why I believe that his ground game won't be as effective as it was in college. If you take away his ground game, I'm not sure Young would be able to be the kind of player he has been in college on just his arm. However, even if Young was able to be effective on the ground, I'd still take Leinart. Let's look at what Vince Young did in the Rose Bowl, in what was a wonderful performance. He ran 19 times for 200 yards, averaging 10.5 ypc. He also threw the ball for 267 yards on 30/40 passing (thats 75%) for an average completion of 6.7 yards. What you must remember is that VY was playing against a USC defense that was ranked 40th in total defense in the country, and their passing defense wasn't even in the top 50 (sorry, my source doens't go any higher than 50!). So overall, VY had one of the best performances ever in a bowl game, but being objective, he also did it against a mediocre defense and an even worse passing defense. Now let's look at what Matt Leinart did in the Rose Bowl. He threw for 365 yards on 29/40 passing (72.5%) and a touchdown. He didn't do anything on the ground. However, you must keep a few things in mind. For starters, Texas was the #6 total defense in the country, only giving up 280.6 yards per game. Even better was there passing defense which gave up only 155.9 yards per game, and ranked 5th nationally. And then, even better than that, UT's defense was ranked 2nd in passing efficiency defense (a very interesting stat http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo..._PER_GAME.html. So, you can see that Leinart was facing a defense that was immensely better than what Vince YOung was facing, and he made them pay by more than doubling what the yards they had allowed on average per game through the air. Overall, this is why I would take Matt Leinart. In my honest opinion, I hold no grudges, and I do think VY is a spectacular talent, and I would be very curious to see what he could do with some mechanics-work, but I think that Matt Leinart is the guy for the Saints. He's a guy who hates to lose, has great intangibles, is super intelligent, has a MUCH more accurate arm than any QB to come out in a long time, has great size at 6'5", and is quicker than most people give him credit for. His pure athletic ability might not be as great as YOung's, but I believe his future as a pro-style quarterback where he relies on his arm offers Leinart a chance to be a greater player than Young who will have to hope that his legs are quick enough to get him out of NFL defense's ways. And trust me, he's not going to face any defenses nearly as poor as USC's.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

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01-11-2006, 09:58 PM	#6
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	...none of the above... AJ Hawk...

01-11-2006, 10:07 PM	#7
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,480 Blog Entries: 3	...none of the above... AJ Hawk... Ditto.... and there are some mocks just updated today that show Houston taking Young and the Saints drafting Bush. I guess we can wait for defense. NOT!!

01-11-2006, 10:57 PM	#8
shonboy Registered Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 38	we must take vy. heres y....A.brooks,,,,,progressively gotten worse...T.bouman---who? amac...who knows we first have to save the team, then we play football. vy will fill the stands, create a home field advantage,alah mike vic...we need a superstar to keep the team here.....
shonboy Registered Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 38

01-12-2006, 06:49 AM	#9
AllSaints Breakin Records Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Deville, Louisiana Posts: 2,167	I think Leinart will fill the stands....

01-12-2006, 07:21 AM	#10
jergensl 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belleview, FL Posts: 526	GREAT post deuce. about aj hawk. i have seen a lot of scouts who say that carpenter is not really that far off from hawk and carpenter is expected to be a second round pick. leinhart(or young) and carpenter or hawk and jacobs(or broyle) the best qbs available in the 2nd round which would you rather have?