Give up?!? HA! Never. LOL. As far as proven ability? Brooks has the only playoff win and the record for most touchdown passes by a Saint. I think he did it in half or almost half the time that Manning did it. But I would definitely have to defend Manning on the point of my whole arguement which is:...bad teams will always affect QB's performances. Even the best of them.
You really wanna bring up '05? Thats your call. Personally I refuse to discuss '05. Lets face it the Saints were definitely not in any kind of mindset to play good football. The fact that they went out there each week and tried though makes me love them even more.

One last thing...go look at Marino's stats. I love Marino to death but the reality is... if you look at every season Marino played a full 16 game schedule...take away '84, '86, and '94 you'll see that his numbers really weren't that much better than Brooks. In fact, the were almost the same minus attempts and yardage.(Obviously Haslett depended on the run game a whole lot more than Shula did.)

Well, I'm out. Whether you hate me or not...its all good mjf. i'm always down for a good discussion. You guys have a great weekend. I may stop in but for the most part I'll be back on Monday. Peace to all and Go Saints Go!