Good Idea?
 

I know many of yall think the saints should go qb, but if they trade down and select a linebacker with their first two picks? I klnow we have alot of needs, but I think the saints should address their needs of qb, OL, and DT through free agency.

RE: Good Idea?
 

The only problem I see with that is exactly how many free agents will really be eager to sign with the Saints with the insanity that is Tom Benson? I think they should make a few trades of some of their players to acquire draft picks and build for the future.

RE: Good Idea?
 

The problem with picking up players in free agency and only having 10+/- million is you have to be really selective. And D_it_up2 is right, how many guys will want to come to this city right now? It's going to be multitudes worse than when Philly couldn't get anyone because their facilities were so bad (pre Nova-Care Center & Lincoln Financail Feild). The Dome is still in shambles, the pre-season will be held in various cities, and who knows if the team will be here in 2-3 year much less next.

Go with a drafted QB you know you can sign for 4-6 years and look to fill holes with "Journeymen" players through FA. Hopefully the coaching staff can get the most from those still here and convince the front office to make a few gutsy calls with FA talent.

RE: Good Idea?
 

trade down and package players and picks to move up in the draft is the way to go. come on time to do some wheeling and dealing in day one

RE: Good Idea?
 

i love when people say we should trade down to "build for the future." is taking a franchise qb that is more ready to start on an nfl team than any other prospect in years not building for the future?

drafting leinart would show everyone in the nfl community(including fans of all teams) that the saints are finally serious about winning. passing up on such a hot prospect would be a huge mistake.

RE: Good Idea?
 

Couldn't have said it better. A guy like Matt Leinart is not someone who comes around in every draft (see 2005 NFL draft). Drafting a franchise QB, which is what Leinart will be, is the best step the Saints can take right now.

RE: Good Idea?
 

Additionally, what many people seem to forget (or not believe) is that a potential franchise QB is worth the risk of a #2 pick when the risk for a high-pick LB is not. Neither is guaranteed to make it in the NFL. However, if any player the Saints draft will become a great player at his position, I'd rather have the QB. I just don't see how people can realistically pass on getting the type of QB that Leinart might turn out to be.

I know as well as anyone that there are Ryan Leafs out there. But I'd rather be San Diego and say that we took a chance on a guy rather than a San Diego that passed on him and seen him do well elsewhere.

RE: Good Idea?
 

I will keep saying this until someone listens, Leinart will not contribute immediately to the organization which is what needs to happen for the Saints to remain viable in New Orleans. They need to win games next year not the year after or the year after that. If it were any other year I would draft Leinart it just so happens that the Saints future hinges on players who can contribute now and Leinart is not that player.

RE: Good Idea?
 

I'll say this again too and maybe someone will listen...No player in this year's draft will have an effect on the Saints' 2006 record to any real degree to make a difference in whether the team stays in NO or goes elsewhere. No. LB. No OT. No QB. It's just not gonna happen that way. Thus, we might as well get the player that most fits our team's need for a QB in the future since we have that opportunity and hope we can somehow bring in some FA players that CAN make a difference in '06.

RE: Good Idea?
 

No... that was the Saints team and that team only. What we should do is trade down and snag FERGUSON OL. We don't nee a great QB to win a Super Bowl as it very well played out this year... you get a great OL and a Great D and you win.

RE: Good Idea?
 

It's almost impossible to fathom. Here's a franchise QB sitting pretty at #2 for us, when any other year, the guy's gone at #1. And guys want to pass on him for an offensive lineman? Or a LB, when this is one of the deepest drafts at the LB position in years? Not drafting Leinart at #2 would prove to everyone in the world that this franchise is o.k. with being mediocre. Hell, we might as well chip in for the U-hauls to L.A. if we draft an O-lineman. I don't care how good D'Brickashaw Ferguson is. Nobody goes to games to watch a lineman block!!!

... every year during this time we always hear the "who'll want to play/coach here?" argument.

Look, there aren't that many NFL coaching positions available, and players don't want to sit out a year without getting paid or being out of the league, knowing that they could have a very hard time coming back into the league. Money is money and playing time is playing time whether you are in S.F., New England, or Miami... they may not be able to win championships, but sure as hell they can build up their resume in N.O.

.. and I know many would come back and say " but you couldn't get quality free agents..."
..well, what's a "quality free agent"? It's very easy to come up with a name, you know, like Law, or Lewis, or whathaveyou, but when has one big name player F.A. make a loser into a winner?

... to me, a quality free agent is someone who's going to work within the system, whatever his last name is...

Re: RE: Good Idea?
 

You make a good point. However, if that lineman isn't there to block, then it doesn't really matter how good that franchise QB is. He will be spending all of his time laying on his back.

David Carr is a perfect example of this. Leaguewide he is considered to be a franchise QB. Picked #1. But he has the NFL record for most sacks in a season and I believe for the 1st 4 years as a QB (202! OUCH!)

They have the #1 pick. And they are going to pick Bush. But while not flashy, I think Carr may be better served by getting someone like Ferguson to help keep him off his back.

But as you say, no one comes to see linemen block. But linemen blocking is a major step towards becoming a successful franchise.

SFIAH

RE: Re: RE: Good Idea?
 

I guess I will continue to disagree with the majority. I feel that OL or LB will be able to adapt alot quicker than a QB and that's all I have to say about that.

Just so you don't get ME confused with those people who think we need to trade down, then maybe I should be a little more specific. I've been an advocate of drafting Matt Leinart since the season began. If you go WAYYY back to after the Green Bay disaster, you'd see a post that I made that hoped we lost out the remainder of the season (which almost happened) and draft Leinart. Anyone who watched this team last year, regardless of Hurricane Katrina, saw that this was a pathetic team. Don't expect the Saints to be 10-6 or 11-5 this coming season and contending for a Super Bowl. I say trade off some of our existing players who just aren't cutting it for more draft picks and build for the future that way. Never, and I mean NEVER should we pass up on a potential franchise QB.

Hey D, I respect a man that sticks to his guns. I have a different view but damn sure respect your opinion.

Much appreciated, Cheramie....I respect your opinion as well. It would surprise me but not shock me to see the Saints trade down in the draft and do something similar to the scenario you'd like to see. However, if they do trade down, I'd expect them to try to pick up Furgeson or Hawk with their first pick and possibly a QB with the 2nd, if they were to get 2 first rounders. Most likely Cutler or Brodie Croyle. But, IMHO, I think the Saints would be foolish to pass up Leinart, or even Young (even though I hope they don't draft Young). People use the comparison of David Carr, but our offensive line is leaps and bounds better than the Texans. They're definitely not the best, but the O-Line has been a revolving door the last few seasons with no consistency. That was the downfall of Jim Haslett because of the lack of continuity. I think Leinart will fare much better off then David Carr in his first season or two.

TRUE DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :D :D :D

D_it_up2,

I wasn't specifically pointing to the Saints in terms of offensive line play. I was simply pointing out while fans don't necessarily come out to see offensive linemen block, that teams must have effective OLine play to be successful.

Personally I believe that the Saints should pick Leinard for no other reason than it's the can't miss pick of the draft. Even if Leinard never turns out to be a ProBowl, HoF QB in the NFL, there will be little "what if" type second guessing about the pick.

SFIAH

Nice post D. I've been hearing alot about the O-line lately, when they are not all that bad. Not great, but they have shown signs of improvement. Believe me, there are worse O-lines in the league. They just had bad blocking schemes & a QB that didn't know how to navigate the pocket.

I think Leinart will fare better than Carr also, simply because of his pocket presence. While not a great scrambler he moves well in the pocket allowing his linemen to do their job. It's hard for an O-lineman to block when any time your QB feels pressure, he moves outside (Aaron Brooks). That gives fast NFL DE's an edge.

The scenerio that I can see is maybe a Trade down with the Jets or Raiders, Two teams in desperate need of a QB and willing to part with some picks. Any trade down to say the 4-7 slot would not hurt the saints in this draft. Having a couple to a few more high picks in this years draft (remember as it stands right now the Saints do not have a 3rd rouner) can add some impact players on both sides of the ball. It will be interesting to see how the combine goes this week, especcially at the QB position where neither Young or Leinart it is rumored will be throwing.

I would like to see Cutler at # 4 with 2 LB's in the second roundand a DT in the 3rd.. A trade with the Jets would ensure this. I would also not be surprised to see a running back picked in the second if there were a trade down, as (and I really respect and enjoy Duce's skills and leadership qualities) there is a question weather Duce can return to form, but there are some quality backs comming out in this years draft that can make an immediate impact should he not be able to perform at even an 85% level.

Just one man's opinion, but I think a solid o Line, probably with added depth in FA and a solid running game would turn this team around on the Offense and some impact LB and a Tackle on defence can get this team into the playoffs. Oh ya don't forget that little guy kicking the ball that wins or loses games on his foot.....We need one of them too.

still can afford to dump some of the $$$ on the OL for next year. Gandy should be replaced, and Mayberry is overpaid for our style of offense. Those two moves would go far and allow F/A and Draft options. trade gandy and a low fifth and we could move into the third. Maybe even get a third strat up for Mayberry. remember houston has the same needs in the draft as we do. So maybe they will take 1 of the 2. I hate to think they will beat us to the punch in each round.

Good idea?!?!? Thats what I have been saying the whole time. Get Hawk, trade down, get more picks and draft SPEEEEEEED on defense!!!! Pick up a decent FA qb and everything will slowly fall into place.

Well a trade with NYJ won't probably happen, they like (so far) what they see in Cutler & would be happy to pick him up 2 spots cheaper than Leinart. Art Shell (& Al Davis) don't like rookie QBs so don't look for them to be moving up for one. Plus, remember the flack we took for the Ricky trade, do you really expect to get that much for our pick?

Saints are drafting lienart get over it leinart haters .................

Ok now I will admit it I am a hater, but for all the right reasons. For once the team is in position to take a good draft position and turn it into a great draft position.

There is a lot of talent in the areas of need for this team in this years draft, an oppertunity to load up on needs and talent that will be around for years to come. My feelings are taking Leinart will be a decision regretted a year or two down the line. He wont live up to the hype and you can quote me on that one and I'll eat those words if he does, I think Cutler young and Whitehurst will go on to have better and longer carreers in the NFL. If he's drafted I'll still watch every week and support the team but damn if they can not address almost all the areas of need by trading down. Not two far down but in the top 7 slots and still address the QB position.

There is a unique oppertunity to turn things around in one year like all the other teams in the NFC south have done over the past 5 years. The team was not a 3-13 team this year and I think everone here can agree to that. This was another middle of the line season or better if the costly mistakes were eliminated. The new staff will address that (finally).

There will be teams willing to trade up in this draft and to not take advantage of this would be foolish.

Amen FanNJ.... A-M-E-N.

I am not a linehart hater. I would love to have him on our team, but given our current circumstances, the Saints NEED to win now, not 3-4yrs from now, which is about the average # of yrs it takes a qb to get used to the NFL. Yall can deny it all yall want but people here will get turned off by the saints if they lose double digit games. PLus Tom Benson nor the NFL didn't promise keeping the Saints in New Orleans for ever. WHy do you think the NFL wants the state to lower buy out money about $20 million? THe NFL wants to make it easier for BEnson to move........ I know there are exceptions to the qb rule, but those are very few. Its unfair to use Big BEn as an example becasue the steelers ran the ball all the time last year. Big Ben was only responsible for managing the game. one more thing about Big Ben's rookie year, he had an awesome defense.

Thats my point righ there. We do not need a Superstar QB to win in this league. A decent one thats not too careless can do it as long as the Saints have an awesome D. I say we use the picks to start beefing up our D.

We can still get good defensive players in rounds 2-6. This year's draft is loaded w/ good defensive players. We need to draft a franchise QB while we have the chance. There are also many good defensive players in free agency this year. We need to upgrade the QB position that has killed us over the last 6 years, as well as the defensive side of the ball. Cutting Brooks will free up $6 million towards the cap. The Aaron Brooks era is finally coming to an end, & you want to pass on Leinart? No way. Besides the 2000 Ravens, every Super Bowl team has had a good defense & a franchise QB. The dream scenario of a "Ricky Williams" deal is not going to happen. Only our front office is dumb enough to give up that much. Teams will not give us enough to justify passing on the NCAA's leading QB.

I'd take a franchise QB and Leinart will not be it. This team does not need a Rickey Williams deal to do the job, but two or three additional high picks in this years draft would do the job. Remember Unless there are comensatory picks, awarded there is no pick until round 4 after the first 2. So this team will end up with one impact player in the second round and a possible one in Fourth or Fifth. The scenerio that some are dreaming of with the first round pick will ride the pine in year one more than likely.

I would rather see winning team than than a QB that will be pranced around like he's the second comming and will more likely see playing time at the local bar scene with the ladies than on the field. Hense his reason to stay another year at college and take classes in Ball room dancing.

Oh ya, I can't remember the name of that franchise QB that the Bucks fielded when they won. ???

What about the Steelers? Didn't he come in and start his first year too? hmmmm....

My Point was that there are Super bowl winners without the franchise QB that all had one thing in common, ecept maybe the Rams, and I do belive there D ranked high the year they won, DEFENSE. The steelers have something great going on. A dominating Ground Game, A Dominating Defence, Good Special Teams and a smart mobile quarterback who has the arm strenghth to make the throws.


The Saints last I looked have none of the above.

Please, don't even go there. Brad Johnson is a hell of a lot better QB than he is given credit for. Look what he did for the Vikings last year. Besides, would you rather keep Aaron Brooks, a.k.a.-"Fumbles the Clown" as your QB when you have a shot at a guy like Leinart. If that's the case, this team is destined to be a mediocre team as usual. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being mediocre. We had some of the best defenses of the '80's, but no franchise QB to lead us to the promised land. How far did that get us? 0 playoff wins. 0 Super Bowls. 1 division title. :roll: :roll:

Keep preachin brother FanNJ.... sing the good praises of common sense team building. I have posted on too many other threads that.....we need to screw Lienart and stack up our D!!!!

Please, don't even go there. Brad Johnson is a hell of a lot better QB than he is given credit for. Look what he did for the Vikings last year. Besides, would you rather keep Aaron Brooks, a.k.a.-"Fumbles the Clown" as your QB when you have a shot at a guy like Leinart. If that's the case, this team is destined to be a mediocre team as usual. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being mediocre. We had some of the best defenses of the late '80's & early '90's, but no franchise QB to lead us to the promised land. How far did that get us? 0 playoff wins. 0 Super Bowls. 1 division title. :roll: :roll:

Let me see..... I'm not saying that this is the be all end all formula but.....many times over we see that it works. The '72 and '73 Dolphins, late '70's Raiders, '85 Bears, '91 and '92 Saints I could go on and on all the way until the 2005 Bears and Steelers. A good, fast defense will get you the W's. Plenty of them. Our offense may need some work but as it stands....If we totally beef up our Defense....we could easily contend. unless we have the same scenario the Redskins of a few years ago had when they unloaded tons of money on the "ultimate defense" was their offense that horrible? Besides that team.......a GOOD DEFENSE will WIN GAMES. Please don't forget 4 out of the 5 class of '83 QB's. All of them gods among QB lore and no Super Bowls becuz....NO DEFENSE!

But how many of those teams that won SBs had incompetent QBs? You can't just totally ignore a quarterback situation in order to focus on defense. Look at this year's Bears. They were being compared to the Monsters of the Midway. But what happened in the playoffs? They had no offense and they're defense couldn't win the games for them. I've said this a billion times, a team needs BALANCE. Our defense was ranked in the upper half of the league last season. Our offense was fifth worst in the NFL. Hmmmm. Which would you address? Especially when using just one draft pick could give us a jump from fifth worse to top quarter. I wouldn't go defense because OUR OFFENSE NEEDS MORE HELP. A few players on D (namely one or two LBs, and a DT) will make this defense one of the best in the NFL. We can address those in FA, in the 2nd round, and later in the draft.

Ok...I agree...but the deal here is.....we don't need Lienart to be successful. But its cool....I mentioned those teams for a reason....Griese was no QB hero...average passer......nothing special. McMahaon was nobody special either. We had Hebert....I think we could have done a hell of a lot better if we didn't have Carl Smith (OC at the time for those who forgot) and his ultra super-duper, mega CONSERVATIVE offensive scheme.
Oh I forgot the Bucs. DILFER?!?! C'mon....defense won that SuperBowl. The real questions here are...
1. Is AB competent enough to win a SB with a kick ass defense? Well as much as I like the guy as long as the ball keeps "falling" out of his hands....no.
2. Do we need Lienart if the Saints stack up on Defense? Definitely not. I heard Josh McCown is an FA....hell he could probably get the job done if we had an awesome defense.

See my signature. And of course the Steelers (and the Seahawks BTW if they had won) have done nothing to change it. The Rams were 4th in scoring defense the year they won it.

It's certainly a pickle for the Saints. If they don't pick Leinart then no matter what happens (short of winning a SB or NFC championship in the next three years) the organization will be second guessed about the decision not to pick Leinart.

The flip side is that those other needs do need to be filled. And it has been shown on several occasions that a team that uses a QB as a game manager with excellent defense, special teams, and running game can do very well.

The Saints defense last year was not that terrible. The offense unfortunately did nothing to keep them from being exposed.

I've been waffling as to the best thing to do. I just don't get the feeling that Leinart is that once in a generation QB that you must pick. Does anyone really see Leinart in the same class as Elway, Marino, Farve, Montana, Steve Young, or Peyton Manning? If you feel that he his, then take him, and use free agency and other draft picks to complement him over the next two years.

But I feel like much of the issue surrounding Leinart is the anti-AB backlash. If Leinart can't live up to the hype, then the Saints would be much better served by trading down and filling defensive and line holes. Pick Ferguson and plug the guy into a WIllie Roaf role for the next decade for example. Or do as Colin Cowart spoke on ESPN radio today and pick AJ Hawk who in his estimation makes every tackle.

Where do you feel Leinart is in terms of development as compared to the great QBs of the last 25 years? Can he get to that level of greatness?

SFIAH