Saints Trading Stallworth?!?!

GoldRush26 · 04-03-2006, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

LOL....all of that "averaging out" is unnecessary.

Um, averaging out is the only way to get a clear picture of two guys who have played a different amount of games. I can take ANY 2 or three season stretch and make the numbers say what I want. But you can't hide averages. So that's what I did. I noticed you didn't say anything about that 2nd for McCareins though. Stallworth is clearly better than Lloyd. The averages prove it. But if i was arguing your side, I would try to make the stats as vague as possible too.

Next, Horn and Stallworth are TWO DIFFERENT RECEIVERS. Joe Horn is more of a possession type, big catch receiver, although he led the team in drops last year. Stallworth is a BURNER, who is learning more possession type skills. Who has been catching AB's passe slonger, the vet Horn, who came to the Saints at age 28 in 1999, or the young player Stallworth, who came two years later and has battled injuries his first two years? Is this even a serious comparison? Can't be.

And if you think dropped balls are no big deal, then you're sadly mistaken because in the NFL dropped balls kill drives.

So do bad passes, INTs, and fumbles. And now we are gonna get into WHEN dropped passes happen? Are you gonna analyze it for Chad Johnson, Antonio Gates, Plax Burress, Muhsin Muhammed, and Chris Chambers too? Even GREAT receivers drop balls. It happens. It's not always their fault though. If they go by what you say and any ball that touches your hands in catchable, it's understandable why Stallworth has a high number, cause that's BS. If you're running across the field at top speed to avoid a LB, and the QB throws it behind you like a rocket, and you reach back and get a hand on it, should you catch that? Is it the receivers' fault if he doesn't? Is that a "reasonable" shot? Please.

The fact of the matter is that the Redskins overpaid for Lloyd. That's pretty apparent. You said yourself he has done nothing. If you were the Saints, would you give up our third(if we hadx one) and fourth for Lloyd, and answer that truthfully. On the same token, would you give up our second for Justin McCareins????? I know you would say no since you have obvious disdain for these two players. If the answer is no, that's overpaying. Come on now. If a team wanted him bad enough yeah Stallworth could get a second. But is he worth a second truthfully...nope. I think of it like this....if he was on another team and that team offered us him in exchange for the right to pick a player like Nick Mangold, Demarco Ryans, Claude Wroten, or Sinorice Moss....I'm sorry but I'm keeping my pick. The fact of the matter is that all three of them are in the same lump. For the most part they have all been unremarkable. One got a 3rd and a 4th. One got a second. How you could be so sure that Stallworth would get us "at least a second" is still beyond me. If you still want to play this "averages" game, do what you gotta do. I judge a players' performance by the season, not game by game.

And now you're making excuses for Stallworth dropping passes because Horn's been working with Brooks longer??? Right. Only problem with that is that Horn had one of his best seasons during his FIRST season with Brooks. Try again. And once again he gets a pass on your behalf because he's been "battling injuries". Is that Brooks fault too?

I didn't say that great recievers don't drop passes. But the great recievers put up GREAT NUMBERS to supplement those drops, which is why it's ridiculous to compare the drops of those other recievers to Stallworth's. Put it into the proper perspective. All of those aformentioned recievers are PRIMARY recievers and it's understood that they have more passes thrown to them than Stallworth. So they still catch a much better proportion of their passes than Stallworth does. And another thing....I'm almost certain dropped passes are passes in which the reciever has TWO hands on the ball, because if they counted the ones where he had one hand on the number would be WELL into the 30s. You get two hands on the ball in the NFL you're supposed to catch it. I'm sure even Stallworth himself understands this.

Euphoria · 04-03-2006, 07:35 PM

stats stats stats... where is the wins?

jnormand · 04-03-2006, 09:34 PM

I think we should keep Stallworth. He has been improving each year. We are going to need him to step up when Horn leaves.

I'll say this....Stats are great, but they do not include the fact that the guy is fast, fast, fast. Is does help. Keep him.

zachsaints52 · 04-04-2006, 08:05 AM

I agree with Whodi 100%. Yes, Stallworth is battled injuries, but everyone agrees that with a QB with an accurate arm (i.e. Brees) he will show he is worth a 2nd, and hopefully more. Whodi is right about the difference in the types of WR's. Horn is an all around WR, while Stallworth is a deep threat who is still learning the posession type. On behalf of Lloyd, he has made alot of nice catches, but he had no QB at all. He is definately worth a 4th, maybe not a 3rd and 4th. But Stallworth hasn't played a full 16 game season for 3 seasons, so averages is basically out the window.

TIGERSAINT31 · 04-04-2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by pakowitz

who the hell is adam caplan of footballinjuries.com... never heard of either of those... the guy or the site.... and KFFL.com is always the first site with all the latest NFL news

Adam Caplan is a guest host on sirius nfl radio he seems to know whats going on everywhere. Think Adam Shefter on radio!

04-03-2006, 05:07 PM	#71
GoldRush26 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 594	Originally Posted by saintswhodi LOL....all of that "averaging out" is unnecessary. Um, averaging out is the only way to get a clear picture of two guys who have played a different amount of games. I can take ANY 2 or three season stretch and make the numbers say what I want. But you can't hide averages. So that's what I did. I noticed you didn't say anything about that 2nd for McCareins though. Stallworth is clearly better than Lloyd. The averages prove it. But if i was arguing your side, I would try to make the stats as vague as possible too. Next, Horn and Stallworth are TWO DIFFERENT RECEIVERS. Joe Horn is more of a possession type, big catch receiver, although he led the team in drops last year. Stallworth is a BURNER, who is learning more possession type skills. Who has been catching AB's passe slonger, the vet Horn, who came to the Saints at age 28 in 1999, or the young player Stallworth, who came two years later and has battled injuries his first two years? Is this even a serious comparison? Can't be. And if you think dropped balls are no big deal, then you're sadly mistaken because in the NFL dropped balls kill drives. So do bad passes, INTs, and fumbles. And now we are gonna get into WHEN dropped passes happen? Are you gonna analyze it for Chad Johnson, Antonio Gates, Plax Burress, Muhsin Muhammed, and Chris Chambers too? Even GREAT receivers drop balls. It happens. It's not always their fault though. If they go by what you say and any ball that touches your hands in catchable, it's understandable why Stallworth has a high number, cause that's BS. If you're running across the field at top speed to avoid a LB, and the QB throws it behind you like a rocket, and you reach back and get a hand on it, should you catch that? Is it the receivers' fault if he doesn't? Is that a "reasonable" shot? Please. The fact of the matter is that the Redskins overpaid for Lloyd. That's pretty apparent. You said yourself he has done nothing. If you were the Saints, would you give up our third(if we hadx one) and fourth for Lloyd, and answer that truthfully. On the same token, would you give up our second for Justin McCareins????? I know you would say no since you have obvious disdain for these two players. If the answer is no, that's overpaying. Come on now. If a team wanted him bad enough yeah Stallworth could get a second. But is he worth a second truthfully...nope. I think of it like this....if he was on another team and that team offered us him in exchange for the right to pick a player like Nick Mangold, Demarco Ryans, Claude Wroten, or Sinorice Moss....I'm sorry but I'm keeping my pick. The fact of the matter is that all three of them are in the same lump. For the most part they have all been unremarkable. One got a 3rd and a 4th. One got a second. How you could be so sure that Stallworth would get us "at least a second" is still beyond me. If you still want to play this "averages" game, do what you gotta do. I judge a players' performance by the season, not game by game. And now you're making excuses for Stallworth dropping passes because Horn's been working with Brooks longer??? Right. Only problem with that is that Horn had one of his best seasons during his FIRST season with Brooks. Try again. And once again he gets a pass on your behalf because he's been "battling injuries". Is that Brooks fault too? I didn't say that great recievers don't drop passes. But the great recievers put up GREAT NUMBERS to supplement those drops, which is why it's ridiculous to compare the drops of those other recievers to Stallworth's. Put it into the proper perspective. All of those aformentioned recievers are PRIMARY recievers and it's understood that they have more passes thrown to them than Stallworth. So they still catch a much better proportion of their passes than Stallworth does. And another thing....I'm almost certain dropped passes are passes in which the reciever has TWO hands on the ball, because if they counted the ones where he had one hand on the number would be WELL into the 30s. You get two hands on the ball in the NFL you're supposed to catch it. I'm sure even Stallworth himself understands this.
GoldRush26 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 594

04-04-2006, 10:29 AM	#75
TIGERSAINT31 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Smithdale M.S. Posts: 107	Originally Posted by pakowitz who the hell is adam caplan of footballinjuries.com... never heard of either of those... the guy or the site.... and KFFL.com is always the first site with all the latest NFL news Adam Caplan is a guest host on sirius nfl radio he seems to know whats going on everywhere. Think Adam Shefter on radio!

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04-03-2006, 07:35 PM	#72
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	stats stats stats... where is the wins?

04-03-2006, 09:34 PM	#73
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,530	I think we should keep Stallworth. He has been improving each year. We are going to need him to step up when Horn leaves. I'll say this....Stats are great, but they do not include the fact that the guy is fast, fast, fast. Is does help. Keep him.

04-04-2006, 08:05 AM	#74
zachsaints52 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Abingdon, Virginia Posts: 522	I agree with Whodi 100%. Yes, Stallworth is battled injuries, but everyone agrees that with a QB with an accurate arm (i.e. Brees) he will show he is worth a 2nd, and hopefully more. Whodi is right about the difference in the types of WR's. Horn is an all around WR, while Stallworth is a deep threat who is still learning the posession type. On behalf of Lloyd, he has made alot of nice catches, but he had no QB at all. He is definately worth a 4th, maybe not a 3rd and 4th. But Stallworth hasn't played a full 16 game season for 3 seasons, so averages is basically out the window.