Watson/Moore trade nullified

saintswhodi · 05-12-2006, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by LKelley67

I don't think anyone was forwarding the idea of a transition tag on him. What relevance is that when we are discussing why they did not franchise him?

I'm sorry, what?? I was correcting you on saying the transition tag gets a top 5 salary offer as well. THAT'S IT. I never pushed the idea of a transition tag for Bentley. Dude, wow. I even outlined the convo for you where it was a CORRECTION to an erroneous statement.

saintswhodi · 05-12-2006, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

I won't even get into the whole "Francchise-Transition" thing....too murky. I will however say that my pride says we got bamboozled in the outcome. Cleveland got Bentley & the #34 overall pick from us, & we got Faine & the #43 overall pick from them. Somehow I feel we did not come out on top with our dealings with the Browns.

THANK YOU!!!

LKelley67 · 05-12-2006, 11:11 AM

What did the Eagles get for Simon? Nada. Why? Because teams knew the Eagles didn't really want to pay that much for him. Thus no one traded with them. I believe that is the exact same scenario with Bentley. Why would anyone give anything for him if they didn't have to?

And what a player wants is an issue. Keeping someone captive in an oragnization that they do not want to be a part of breeds acrimony and creates a bad rep around the league of players considering what teams they might want to play for. Besides the injuries, didn't Howard look like he had enough last year too? Gimme the check and I'm going home.

LKelley67 · 05-12-2006, 11:16 AM

whew, I DID NOT say a transition player is top 5%.

the franchise tag requires the team to tender the player a one year contract that is the minimum of the average of the five largest salaries for players at the position.

Why you responded with Transition player info to that statement I dunno. Oh, about Hutchinson? The point was how the Saints could have been criticized similarly for overpaying for a franchised player, not the technicality of the rule.

saintswhodi · 05-12-2006, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by LKelley67

What did the Eagles get for Simon? Nada. Why? Because teams knew the Eagles didn't really want to pay that much for him. Thus no one traded with them. I believe that is the exact same scenario with Bentley. Why would anyone give anything for him if they didn't have to?

And what a player wants is an issue. Keeping someone captive in an oragnization that they do not want to be a part of breeds acrimony and creates a bad rep around the league of players considering what teams they might want to play for. Besides the injuries, didn't Howard look like he had enough last year too? Gimme the check and I'm going home.

Wow. Just wow. You know why the Eagles got nothing for Simon? Cause they were asking the world for him. They didn't want to take just a second or third, they wanted a first round pick. That's why. Noone was willing to give them that. Again, Shaun Alexander and Edge James were being offered for 2nd round picks, as franchise players. You're not even close with anything you're saying.

And how exactly do you keep someone captive when you franchise them WITH THE INTENT TO TRADE THEM? If we had gotten an offer, we would have traded him. What acrimony? We could have traded Howard if we weren't greedy. Yikes. I would give credit for grasping at straws at this point, i'll let you know when you get that close to being on point.

gandhi1007 · 05-12-2006, 11:18 AM

THANK YOU!!!

Your welcome.

On a more serious note, the thing that really urks me is the "1st Round" talent (at positions we need help at) we missed in the second round that went between picks #34-42. D'Qwell Jackson, Rocky McIntosh, Jimmy Williams, Winston Justice, Thomas Howard, & "Deuce" Latui. And don't give me the "character thing", because only 2 players on that list had "character" issues. But hey.....We did get another safety in round 2......a real need position for this team.

O.K., my ranting is done. Sore subject for me.

saintswhodi · 05-12-2006, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by LKelley67

whew, I DID NOT say a transition player is top 5%.

the franchise tag requires the team to tender the player a one year contract that is the minimum of the average of the five largest salaries for players at the position.

Why you responded with Transition player info to that statement I dunno.

OH MY GOD!!! Dude you are straight killing me right now. Please, explain to me the meaning of you bringing up the transition tag in this statement:

Also, the franchise tag requires the team to tender the player a one year contract that is the minimum of the average of the five largest salaries for players at the position. They lump all OL together, so this would be pay at the average of what the top 5 OTs are getting. Transition players also get this amount- what the Vikings were criticized about paying to guard Hutchinson. They would have been stuck with him and had to have paid him top 5 OL pay

Get WHAT amount ALSO, when you were talking about top 5 pay for the franchise tag? Wow, I can;t even believe you are trying to backtrack on such a minor point. Just admit your error and move on. Or explain what thattransition statement meant and what you were referring to.

gandhi1007 · 05-12-2006, 11:24 AM

Whodi, did you take your blood pressure medicine?

LKelley67 · 05-12-2006, 11:25 AM

i suppose we just have a difference of opinion. I think the Saints would have had no bargainig leverage. A lot of trouble and a ding in PR IMO that would have accomplished nothing.

You are right on the asking price thing. It is like Harrington, why give anything for him if you can have him for free in June? You can play a charade like you are gonna keep Bentley but I think in many cases it is common knowledge when there is no intent. Why give ANYTHING if you can have him for free and everyone knows it.

saintswhodi · 05-12-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

Whodi, did you take your blood pressure medicine?

I need to. Lordy, is it that hard to admit a mistake? And to keep going on about it? Man, I need a pill.

05-12-2006, 11:06 AM	#31
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by LKelley67 I don't think anyone was forwarding the idea of a transition tag on him. What relevance is that when we are discussing why they did not franchise him? I'm sorry, what?? I was correcting you on saying the transition tag gets a top 5 salary offer as well. THAT'S IT. I never pushed the idea of a transition tag for Bentley. Dude, wow. I even outlined the convo for you where it was a CORRECTION to an erroneous statement.

05-12-2006, 11:08 AM	#32
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by gandhi1007 I won't even get into the whole "Francchise-Transition" thing....too murky. I will however say that my pride says we got bamboozled in the outcome. Cleveland got Bentley & the #34 overall pick from us, & we got Faine & the #43 overall pick from them. Somehow I feel we did not come out on top with our dealings with the Browns. THANK YOU!!!

05-12-2006, 11:17 AM	#35
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by LKelley67 What did the Eagles get for Simon? Nada. Why? Because teams knew the Eagles didn't really want to pay that much for him. Thus no one traded with them. I believe that is the exact same scenario with Bentley. Why would anyone give anything for him if they didn't have to? And what a player wants is an issue. Keeping someone captive in an oragnization that they do not want to be a part of breeds acrimony and creates a bad rep around the league of players considering what teams they might want to play for. Besides the injuries, didn't Howard look like he had enough last year too? Gimme the check and I'm going home. Wow. Just wow. You know why the Eagles got nothing for Simon? Cause they were asking the world for him. They didn't want to take just a second or third, they wanted a first round pick. That's why. Noone was willing to give them that. Again, Shaun Alexander and Edge James were being offered for 2nd round picks, as franchise players. You're not even close with anything you're saying. And how exactly do you keep someone captive when you franchise them WITH THE INTENT TO TRADE THEM? If we had gotten an offer, we would have traded him. What acrimony? We could have traded Howard if we weren't greedy. Yikes. I would give credit for grasping at straws at this point, i'll let you know when you get that close to being on point.

05-12-2006, 11:20 AM	#37
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by LKelley67 whew, I DID NOT say a transition player is top 5%. the franchise tag requires the team to tender the player a one year contract that is the minimum of the average of the five largest salaries for players at the position. Why you responded with Transition player info to that statement I dunno. OH MY GOD!!! Dude you are straight killing me right now. Please, explain to me the meaning of you bringing up the transition tag in this statement: Also, the franchise tag requires the team to tender the player a one year contract that is the minimum of the average of the five largest salaries for players at the position. They lump all OL together, so this would be pay at the average of what the top 5 OTs are getting. *Transition players also get this amount*- what the Vikings were criticized about paying to guard Hutchinson. They would have been stuck with him and had to have paid him top 5 OL pay Get WHAT amount ALSO, when you were talking about top 5 pay for the franchise tag? Wow, I can;t even believe you are trying to backtrack on such a minor point. Just admit your error and move on. Or explain what thattransition statement meant and what you were referring to.

05-12-2006, 11:28 AM	#40
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by gandhi1007 Whodi, did you take your blood pressure medicine? I need to. Lordy, is it that hard to admit a mistake? And to keep going on about it? Man, I need a pill.

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05-12-2006, 11:11 AM	#33
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	What did the Eagles get for Simon? Nada. Why? Because teams knew the Eagles didn't really want to pay that much for him. Thus no one traded with them. I believe that is the exact same scenario with Bentley. Why would anyone give anything for him if they didn't have to? And what a player wants is an issue. Keeping someone captive in an oragnization that they do not want to be a part of breeds acrimony and creates a bad rep around the league of players considering what teams they might want to play for. Besides the injuries, didn't Howard look like he had enough last year too? Gimme the check and I'm going home.

05-12-2006, 11:16 AM	#34
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	whew, I DID NOT say a transition player is top 5%. the franchise tag requires the team to tender the player a one year contract that is the minimum of the average of the five largest salaries for players at the position. Why you responded with Transition player info to that statement I dunno. Oh, about Hutchinson? The point was how the Saints could have been criticized similarly for overpaying for a franchised player, not the technicality of the rule.

05-12-2006, 11:18 AM	#36
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	THANK YOU!!! Your welcome. On a more serious note, the thing that really urks me is the "1st Round" talent (at positions we need help at) we missed in the second round that went between picks #34-42. D'Qwell Jackson, Rocky McIntosh, Jimmy Williams, Winston Justice, Thomas Howard, & "Deuce" Latui. And don't give me the "character thing", because only 2 players on that list had "character" issues. But hey.....We did get another safety in round 2......a real need position for this team. O.K., my ranting is done. Sore subject for me.

05-12-2006, 11:24 AM	#38
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Whodi, did you take your blood pressure medicine?

05-12-2006, 11:25 AM	#39
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	i suppose we just have a difference of opinion. I think the Saints would have had no bargainig leverage. A lot of trouble and a ding in PR IMO that would have accomplished nothing. You are right on the asking price thing. It is like Harrington, why give anything for him if you can have him for free in June? You can play a charade like you are gonna keep Bentley but I think in many cases it is common knowledge when there is no intent. Why give ANYTHING if you can have him for free and everyone knows it.