Leave The Extra 4th Out of It.

hagan714 · 08-17-2006, 08:46 AM

Since we have an extra 4th round pick now why is everyone ready to trade it. This is under valuing the power of round 4.

Alot of deals can be broken or made on the value of this pick on day two of the draft. I have heard to many GMs around the NFL talk about this round as key to many trades over the years. This is opening day of round 2 of the NFL draft. Alot of player that should have been picked by the end of day 1 are still on the board for one reason or another. You can obtain a quality football player at bargin basement prices. Also when trading up for higher picks on day one this is the round on day two that can make it work. Heck the Miami trade for Williams hinged on us swapping 4th's. That allowed the dolphins to move up 11 places in 2002. Miami took Randy McMichael TE Georgia and we took Keyuo Craver CB Nebraska.

Our team has been bleeding perfusly over the last 3 years. We have torn it apart each year making it worse. Prime example is the OL and DL. Just look at the players lost; Roaf, Turley and Glover to name a few. We are playing a 43 defense because we have to not because we want to. It is how the pieces line up thats all. Same on Offense. Granted the offense has better pieces to work with.

Why would you trade a player that will be in the NFL for years to come and a power pick for a band aid on a wound that need stiches?

Face the facts that we are not going to the promise land this year or next. Donnie Edwards and others mentioned will not get us there and will not be with us when the time comes for us to arrive there. Keep the pick and build a core that will keep us going to the promise land for years to come. I would rather sign Free-agent LB Jamie Sharper first than trade a Veteran and the future of the 2007 NFL Draft. Remember how limited we were without a third round pick this year. An additional pick is going to free us to do so much more. Granted a 4 does not do much in round one but it can do things in round 2. You pretty much can move freely in round 3 with the additional 4 and not hurt your team. Now you can target players by moving up and not by moving down like we had to do this year.

This year we got rid of mistakes from the past to build the type of team that can win year in and year out, we hope. Next year we start adding more pieces and deciding which player under one year contract (which we have many) fit this team and which of the future FA that have been with us should stay or not. Why do you think we signed so many one year deals and did not extended contracts this year. Cap room for next year is the answer. Look for one or maybe two big ticket FA to land here next year.

Bit the bullet now and play with what you have and keep our picks. We have a better club this year than the last 2 years. It may not show in wins but it will show in playing time for the younger players and will payoff next year in wins. We need to add other players but we need to keep your picks also and if possible get more picks to build for the future if you can. If we do trade for a player and have to use our picks and/or players, be it for a player like Rickey Jackson that was with us for years. We must think long term.

LKelley67 · 08-17-2006, 10:05 AM

Can't say I am 101% on board with ya but that was a nice rant.

saintswhodi · 08-17-2006, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by LKelley67

Can't say I am 101% on board with ya but that was a nice rant.

My thoughts exactly.

Bobaganoosh · 08-17-2006, 01:39 PM

You do make sense, so i have to respect what you said. Very solid arguement, but...dont you at least kind of feel like bringing in someone like Donnie Edwards would be good for the Saints in more ways than one? Yes, he would immediately be our best LB. Yes, he would make us look better on paper...but the thing i would like about getting him would be the fact we would finally have a respected, successfull veteran LB to keep this team together and to help TEACH these young LB's we have. The Saints have invested a lot of high picks in LB's over the last 4 years and so far, none have panned out. Edwards is one of the best LB's in the league, not because of his physical ability, but because he has the right mind for the game. He could come in and teach Fincher, teach Allen, even teach Fujita about what it takes to be successfull. He is a very smart, savvy guy and i would love to have him here.

Now i do agree with you in that with him or without him, we do not make the playoffs this year. But i do think his value to the saints would last longer than his playing days provided the LB's we have now and the ones we bring in in the next 2 or 3 years could sit and learn from him...all the young QB's say they learned so much from the veterans that they played with, i am sure it would be the same with the LB's.

Now, as far as Stallworth and the 4th rounder for Edwards thing goes, i look at this way. No matter how you see it, Stallworth does not suit for the Saints in 2007. That 4th round pick was basically given to us for a guy that never played a down with the Saints. So long term, i do believe that Edwards gives us more to build on and gets us closer to winning than the other two do.

One last thing, i think the thing that you are banking on may be the shakiest thing of all...you are expecting the Saints to do the right thing with that 4th rounder...how often does that happen? The Saints have been dynamite at pinpointing the top 20 players in the draft, but after that, its like they give up. Counting on them to do the right thing with the pick is what scares me...

All that being said, you made some very valid points and i really understand your position. This is just a comment from the guy on the other side of the fence.

FatiusJeebs · 08-17-2006, 02:02 PM

Good point Bob.

Bobaganoosh · 08-17-2006, 02:37 PM

thanks jeebs...its nice to rant here and there...thats what we are here for.

FatiusJeebs · 08-17-2006, 02:47 PM

Oh I love to rant. My biggest rant is our uniforms. I think its time for a little change. Our color's should never be changed but.....I think we need to tweak a few things.

jrmllb · 08-17-2006, 04:44 PM

nice one Jeebs...You have some key points...McMicheals still in league....Craver not in league (according to NFL.com)...

hagan714 · 08-17-2006, 05:12 PM

dido bob
I understand what you say and I have to agree with most of it. MY faith is against the history of the saints. But after the way payton drafted this year I will have to back him. I know I am a turkey on thanksgiving day with that statement. But I am willing to risk it. He had me scratching my head both days. But they all seem to be working out.

hagan714 · 08-17-2006, 05:21 PM

oh by the way:
Chargers | Edwards won't play Saturday
Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:49:27 -0700

Jay Paris, of the North County Times, reports San Diego Chargers LB Donnie Edwards (back) will not play in the team's preseason game Saturday, Aug. 19.

08-17-2006, 08:46 AM	#1
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Leave The Extra 4th Out of It. Since we have an extra 4th round pick now why is everyone ready to trade it. This is under valuing the power of round 4. Alot of deals can be broken or made on the value of this pick on day two of the draft. I have heard to many GMs around the NFL talk about this round as key to many trades over the years. This is opening day of round 2 of the NFL draft. Alot of player that should have been picked by the end of day 1 are still on the board for one reason or another. You can obtain a quality football player at bargin basement prices. Also when trading up for higher picks on day one this is the round on day two that can make it work. Heck the Miami trade for Williams hinged on us swapping 4th's. That allowed the dolphins to move up 11 places in 2002. Miami took Randy McMichael TE Georgia and we took Keyuo Craver CB Nebraska. Our team has been bleeding perfusly over the last 3 years. We have torn it apart each year making it worse. Prime example is the OL and DL. Just look at the players lost; Roaf, Turley and Glover to name a few. We are playing a 43 defense because we have to not because we want to. It is how the pieces line up thats all. Same on Offense. Granted the offense has better pieces to work with. Why would you trade a player that will be in the NFL for years to come and a power pick for a band aid on a wound that need stiches? Face the facts that we are not going to the promise land this year or next. Donnie Edwards and others mentioned will not get us there and will not be with us when the time comes for us to arrive there. Keep the pick and build a core that will keep us going to the promise land for years to come. I would rather sign Free-agent LB Jamie Sharper first than trade a Veteran and the future of the 2007 NFL Draft. Remember how limited we were without a third round pick this year. An additional pick is going to free us to do so much more. Granted a 4 does not do much in round one but it can do things in round 2. You pretty much can move freely in round 3 with the additional 4 and not hurt your team. Now you can target players by moving up and not by moving down like we had to do this year. This year we got rid of mistakes from the past to build the type of team that can win year in and year out, we hope. Next year we start adding more pieces and deciding which player under one year contract (which we have many) fit this team and which of the future FA that have been with us should stay or not. Why do you think we signed so many one year deals and did not extended contracts this year. Cap room for next year is the answer. Look for one or maybe two big ticket FA to land here next year. Bit the bullet now and play with what you have and keep our picks. We have a better club this year than the last 2 years. It may not show in wins but it will show in playing time for the younger players and will payoff next year in wins. We need to add other players but we need to keep your picks also and if possible get more picks to build for the future if you can. If we do trade for a player and have to use our picks and/or players, be it for a player like Rickey Jackson that was with us for years. We must think long term.

08-17-2006, 10:25 AM	#3
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by LKelley67 Can't say I am 101% on board with ya but that was a nice rant. My thoughts exactly.

08-17-2006, 01:39 PM	#4
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	You do make sense, so i have to respect what you said. Very solid arguement, but...dont you at least kind of feel like bringing in someone like Donnie Edwards would be good for the Saints in more ways than one? Yes, he would immediately be our best LB. Yes, he would make us look better on paper...but the thing i would like about getting him would be the fact we would finally have a respected, successfull veteran LB to keep this team together and to help TEACH these young LB's we have. The Saints have invested a lot of high picks in LB's over the last 4 years and so far, none have panned out. Edwards is one of the best LB's in the league, not because of his physical ability, but because he has the right mind for the game. He could come in and teach Fincher, teach Allen, even teach Fujita about what it takes to be successfull. He is a very smart, savvy guy and i would love to have him here. Now i do agree with you in that with him or without him, we do not make the playoffs this year. But i do think his value to the saints would last longer than his playing days provided the LB's we have now and the ones we bring in in the next 2 or 3 years could sit and learn from him...all the young QB's say they learned so much from the veterans that they played with, i am sure it would be the same with the LB's. Now, as far as Stallworth and the 4th rounder for Edwards thing goes, i look at this way. No matter how you see it, Stallworth does not suit for the Saints in 2007. That 4th round pick was basically given to us for a guy that never played a down with the Saints. So long term, i do believe that Edwards gives us more to build on and gets us closer to winning than the other two do. One last thing, i think the thing that you are banking on may be the shakiest thing of all...you are expecting the Saints to do the right thing with that 4th rounder...how often does that happen? The Saints have been dynamite at pinpointing the top 20 players in the draft, but after that, its like they give up. Counting on them to do the right thing with the pick is what scares me... All that being said, you made some very valid points and i really understand your position. This is just a comment from the guy on the other side of the fence.
	It's all in the reflexes.

08-17-2006, 02:02 PM	#5
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Good point Bob.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

08-17-2006, 02:47 PM	#7
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Oh I love to rant. My biggest rant is our uniforms. I think its time for a little change. Our color's should never be changed but.....I think we need to tweak a few things.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

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08-17-2006, 10:05 AM	#2
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Can't say I am 101% on board with ya but that was a nice rant.

08-17-2006, 02:37 PM	#6
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	thanks jeebs...its nice to rant here and there...thats what we are here for.

08-17-2006, 04:44 PM	#8
jrmllb 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Posts: 665	nice one Jeebs...You have some key points...McMicheals still in league....Craver not in league (according to NFL.com)...

08-17-2006, 05:12 PM	#9
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	dido bob I understand what you say and I have to agree with most of it. MY faith is against the history of the saints. But after the way payton drafted this year I will have to back him. I know I am a turkey on thanksgiving day with that statement. But I am willing to risk it. He had me scratching my head both days. But they all seem to be working out.

08-17-2006, 05:21 PM	#10
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	oh by the way: Chargers \| Edwards won't play Saturday Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:49:27 -0700 Jay Paris, of the North County Times, reports San Diego Chargers LB Donnie Edwards (back) will not play in the team's preseason game Saturday, Aug. 19.