WhoDat205

Well put, Stockman. Godell already pee-ed in the punch by suspensing Pacman, Henry and Tank for 1/2 to a whole season; which is a move that hamstrung him in the Vick case. If he suspends Vick for the season, Vick's got a case against the league; if he doesn't suspend Vick, (that includes paid leave) the trio above will be releasing the legal hounds on the NFL for unfair treatment.

Please realize that I am not defending Vick's (alleged) actions, or the actions of any of the guys above. I'm just pointing out that Goodell made a "rookie mistake" and checkmated himself and the league.

"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

Euphoria

Yeah you can't suspend him until there is conviction or a guilty plea.

Pacman and Vick are 2 different situations... one where he has been in trouble and continued to get in trouble and NFL took action. Vick's situation is that he is facing charges and he shouldn't be convited or punished before anyone just claims he did something wrong. If that was the case you better call the FBI and have them do the same thing to Manning before we play the Colts so we can beat them.

bobcat4u2

gambling is involved in this mess which could be lifetime ban.pac-man has no convictions and if found guilty of anything he's charged with,he doesn't match vick's charges.vick has already had the " RON MEXICO " herpes delivery, his home fan finger job and his wacky-backy smelling jewelry carrying waterbottle( if you beleive that,he wants you to try to get on his jury ) he more than qualifies for the season suspension on damage to nfl reputation.i agree i wouldn't miss saints game to protest but fans skipping his preseason games would do trick.then again,we'd miss fun of barking at him

ScottyRo

People wondering why Vick has not been suspended yet by looking at Pacman's suspension are missing the point of Pacman's suspension ENTIRELY.

First of all, the keyword is CRIMINAL. For all the PR nightmares he has created, this is Vick's first CRIMINAL problem. The closest thing that comes into play under this other than the indictment for dog fighting is the funny water bottle, but he was only detained for a few moments in that situation.

Pacman on the other hand, entered the league on probation, has been arrested twice and has been interviewed as a person of interest in criminal investigations up to 10 other times. It is that he has gotten himself into criminal trouble multiple times which brought about his suspension.

Vick's situation is different in that there is only one criminal incident on his sheet. The commissioner has already established that his new policy is aimed at repeat CRIMINAL offenders while first time CRIMINAL offenders will be afforded the luxury of letting due process play out in the courts.

For its actions, PETA is WAAAAY out of line in calling for his suspension based on this indictment. You have to remember that an indictment is one side of the story: the prosecution's side. The defense does not get a chance to rebut any of the testimony or evidence. Prosecutors regularly use very shaky evidence in combination with whatever solid evidence they have to secure these indictments. PETA and many others are acting as if Vick has already been found guilty and are asking for things with total disregard for how it could affect somebody who could be innocent. Don't tell me you KNOW he's guilty. You weren't there. You didn't see anything. If you think he is guilty, you are relying on only one side of the story which includes the testimony of some individuals that you probably wouldn't let in your house.

The thing is, I can't stand Vick. I think he is way overrated and I get sick of hearing about him like he is some great QB or something. Plus, he plays for the Falcons who I hate. However, I am not going to let my disdain for him cloud my judgment on how this situation needs to be treated. I think many of you who are in favor of suspending Vick now would, if being completely honest, admit that your disdain for him as a player and probably as a person (even without the dog fighting allegations) is influencing your decision making when calling for his suspension.

WhoDat205

ScottyRo, that was the most well composed, rational, logical and well thought out position I've heard on this board to date.

Well played...

Euphoria

Scotty Ro...

Great Job.

danr5160

ScottyRo, I agree that's how our country was founded. However, have you actually read the indictment? There are 4 "cooperating witnesses" (granted they are all admitted dogfighter criminals and trying to cop a plea) producing a lot of very, very damning details, and a ton of hard evidence collected on Michael Vick's property. The business (Bad Newz Kennels) was in Vick's name. Some of the bets Vick allegedly paid directly were $tens of thousands, and you know that before the feds handed down the indictment they rationalized the alleged payoffs with transfers from his accounts. So you're right, he hasn't been found guilty, and the defense could still possibly pull off a miracle save. But I would NOT want those charges and that evidence facing me in federal court. This isn't the LA police and prosecutors, this is the FBI. This won't be an OJ circus, this is all business. I'm not ready to hang him, but anybody want to take a bet on the outcome?

stockman311

I give him a less than 5% chance. He is most likely off to the pen. You still can't suspend him for a first time offense. If he is found guilty his life as he has known it is over and it should be. But this is not China or the Middle East. Our legal system as messed up as it is sometimes is what seperates us from the animals living in other countries without an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
However, if I were Mike Vick and I was given the opportunity to take a paid leave of absense I would jump on it. There is no way I would subject myself, my organization, and my teamates to the amount of media frenzy and public outcry that is about to descend on Flowery Mound, GA. If he has any selflessness left he should take his paycheck each week and focus on defending himself if he is innocent or making a plea bargain if he is guilty.

Bobaganoosh

The NFL does not have anything to do with due process. My company does not have anything to do with due process. The fact of the matter is that he has been indicted by the federal government...the same government who holds a 95% conviction rate on all indictments. The fact of the matter is this is a felony, and if he would have been indicted on murder charges, or rape, or kidnapping...would you want him to play football while going through the trial for that? No, of course you wouldnt. Vick will take his leave of absence, get paid for this year, so what is he really losing? not much. he isnt known as the type of player to have a love for the game...so i dont think he will miss it at all as long as he is still getting paid.

It's all in the reflexes.

RDOX

I must applaud all posters here for the well thought, civilly stated responses to this subject. Cheramie, III you argument is correct. There are certain issues that deserve us taking a stand. ScottyR, you too make excellent points for us to be less judgemental in this issue because Vick has not yet been convicted. All points in between are valid.

Now, with that said, one factor comes to mind. Goodell is trying to rid the NFL of the criminal IMAGE that has surfaced in the past couple of months. The heat is on bigtime to create a better image of who plays in the NFL. Remember that these guys are heros to kids and should be role models both on and off the field. We've seen, Billy Cannon, Lawrence Phillips, Cecil Collins, Rae Curruth, Harvey Williams, O.J. Simpson, Pac Man Jones, Ricky Williams, Tank Johnson, Chris Henry, Ray Lewis, Randy Moss, and other hi profile players in altercations with the legal system. THIS HAS TO STOP! Goodell knows this and is making an effort to curtail this behavior.

My take on Vick is that he comes from a family of criminals, his brother is still embroiled in legal problems on gun charges and other criminal behavior. Is Michael Vick guilty of dogfighting? I truly don't know, and neither do the rest of us. We may have strong suspicions, but we don't know all of the facts. What I do know is that Michael Vick has been indicted for a vicious, brutal crime against animals. Guilty or not, Vick has, at best, lied to his boss and the commissioner of the League. That alone, calls for some sort of disciplinary action. Suspension with or without pay is warranted just on the basis that he lied. That has nothing to do with his legal status. Secondly, I believe that it makes sense to enact a League policy that goes something like this: Any player who is arrested for a misdemeanor or felony is automatically suspended from play until either cleared or convicted. If cleared, salary and benefits are refunded. If guilty, approprite refunds to the team apply. That keeps the lid on who does and doesn't get into the media.

This whole thing has become a media circus. To me, Vick is both naive and stupid to believe that he can get away with a slap on the wrist. He's in deep deep trouble, even if he doesn't get found guilty.