The Elephant in the Living Room?

IowaSaint · 11-20-2007, 07:45 AM

Are we missing the real elephant in the room?? No real running game!!

When you can't rush the ball between the tackles it allows the D-line to pin it's ears back and rush the passer. I know that Peyton has tried to substitute the short pass in lieu of a running attack, but to make that effective you still have to have something that resembles a running attack between the tackles otherwise the Linebackers can shadow the back without being worried about the middle of the field.

The real elephant is Reggie's inability to run in the middle of the field or the loss of Duece or lack of using Duece when we had him.

Until we can make defenses stay honest in the middle of the field we should expect more of the same.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 11-25-2007, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by IowaSaint

Are we missing the real elephant in the room?? No real running game!!

I'd call it an abandoned running game. It's there. It's just that Coach Payton isn't patient enough to stick with it. The next thing you know that for good or for bad the offense is slinging the ball all over the field.

When you can't rush the ball between the tackles it allows the D-line to pin it's ears back and rush the passer. I know that Peyton has tried to substitute the short pass in lieu of a running attack, but to make that effective you still have to have something that resembles a running attack between the tackles otherwise the Linebackers can shadow the back without being worried about the middle of the field.

Agreed. The Saints have rushed well between the tackles at times. Then they get away from it.

The real elephant is Reggie's inability to run in the middle of the field or the loss of Duece or lack of using Duece when we had him.

I disagree with this. Reggie has proved that if you give him the ball 20 times in a game, he'll get you a buck and change. And that's running the ball inside the tackles. But Coach runs Stecker out there. Then he pulls Karney. Then he starts to have Brees sling the ball. Bush isn't going to bust a 60 yard TD every time he touches the ball inside the tackles. But he's had several 10-20 yard runs during the course of the season.

Until we can make defenses stay honest in the middle of the field we should expect more of the same.

That's right. The Saints base formation needs to be the I with Karney at fullback and PT23 or Reggie in the TB slot. Let Bush go wide sometimes. But run the ball from the formation. Set up play action. Then you'll get more explosive plays down the field with less hits and mistakes from Brees.

SFIAH

bobad · 11-24-2007, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by FrenzyFan

That's a wake up call. Everything you just said is true. This year Brees=Brooks?!

If half of the tipped INT's and dropped passes went away, Brees' stats would look brilliant.

Yep, he had a bad game or 2. It's the NFL. It happens.

Budsdrinker · 11-20-2007, 07:49 AM

Here is something to think about. I've had surgery on my shoulder also and it took close to 2 years for it to feel like it did before I tore the rotator cuff. In my opinion Drew's shoulder is probably getting close to 100% and his velocity is starting to increase on him as his shoulder strength increases and this is causing some inconsistency in his throws. Now granted this doesn't excuse some of his decision making but it could explain some of the throws. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but it is something to think about.

Kittykat · 11-20-2007, 05:06 PM

When Brees performs poorly I think it can be traced back to having almost zero protection. Get him under pressure and back-pedaling and it seems like an interception is a given.

And I wonder why (as well) that he's not using more receivers than Colston or Bush?! Last year we spread it around to Copper, Henderson, Colston and Patten? Why not now? (Okay, I know why we don't throw to Henderson...)

And for the love of God, why aren't we giving the ball to Stecker or Karney to pound it up the middle?? Granted, they won't get the yardage like Deuce but at least they'll run north and south and don't dance all over (and behind) the line of scrimmage everytime!

bobad · 11-24-2007, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Kittykat

And I wonder why (as well) that he's not using more receivers than Colston or Bush?! Last year we spread it around to Copper, Henderson, Colston and Patten? Why not now? (Okay, I know why we don't throw to Henderson...)

True,,, and what happened to Lance Moore? *

Patten and Moore had some great games this year, then seemingly dropped off the radar. Has Drew lost his ability to spread the ball around, or just doesn't have time?

*After Lance did that silly dance, he seems to have disappeared. Only 2-3 catches since then.

Euphoria · 11-20-2007, 08:11 PM

Drew Brees is exactly what he has always been. Its no surprise that you need people around Brees for him to be successful. If you think other wise you are kidding yourself. He was only as good as the people around him is SD.

This comes as no surprise and should not be any big deal. We went with him at QB and so you made the commitment to load the team up with talent around him. Unfortunately we haven't put enough around him yet.

Brees is the right choice you're not going to find a better QB and addressing the QB position isn't going to win us any more games either. You have to bite the bullet and work out the issues on the lines and give some players some time to develop. Brees will be there if you get him some help. Going after a QB is going to open another can of worms and I am having a hard time dealing with the cans that are open now.

dasaints26 · 11-21-2007, 08:49 PM

Was on NFL.com looking up some stats for Fantasy Football and came across some stats for our starting qb. Over the last 6 games he is completing 70.4% for 1800 yds with 14 tds and 5 ints. That is not a bad stretch considering how one dimensional teams know we play and for us leading the league in dropped passes. I wonder what his completion % will be when the wrs start holding onto the ball.
Brees>Brooks. Come on we dont wont to start comparing Brees and Brooks again. I think the best argument to that question is if we dropped Brees would he be sittin at home watching Dr Phil like Brooks is.

hagan714 · 11-21-2007, 09:04 PM

Drew is a very QB without a doubt. No one man makes a team. I like the choice of him to help the young guys grow and on offense we have nothing but young players.

jnormand · 11-22-2007, 01:03 AM

Ok....I don't post many comments, however, I read a great many. This post is irritating.

First of all, Brees is the one of the best FA pick ups we have ever had, as previously mentioned. Next, Brees is a fantastic QB and probably one of the best we have ever had. There is no comparison to AB.

Look, Brees has had some bad games this year...that happens to every QB in the game. The offense is plagued by inconsistency (from all players), poor offensive line play, dropped passes, fumbles and a very lack luster or even non-existant rushing game. The play calling has been one demensional.

The bottom line is Brees is a great quarterback. He has been the one of the lone bright spots for the Saints all year long. He is an accurate, dependable and responsible leader that the team has needed for years. He is poised, respectable and accountable. Why anyone would want to look in another direction is rediculous.

I cannot even begin to understand why anyone on this forum thinks that this guy is not the future of this team. He is the leader. Generals can only be as good as the men they have at their side.

11-20-2007, 07:45 AM	#1
IowaSaint Rookie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Are we missing the real elephant in the room?? No real running game!! When you can't rush the ball between the tackles it allows the D-line to pin it's ears back and rush the passer. I know that Peyton has tried to substitute the short pass in lieu of a running attack, but to make that effective you still have to have something that resembles a running attack between the tackles otherwise the Linebackers can shadow the back without being worried about the middle of the field. The real elephant is Reggie's inability to run in the middle of the field or the loss of Duece or lack of using Duece when we had him. Until we can make defenses stay honest in the middle of the field we should expect more of the same.
IowaSaint Rookie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6

11-25-2007, 06:49 AM	#2
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Originally Posted by IowaSaint Are we missing the real elephant in the room?? No real running game!! I'd call it an abandoned running game. It's there. It's just that Coach Payton isn't patient enough to stick with it. The next thing you know that for good or for bad the offense is slinging the ball all over the field. When you can't rush the ball between the tackles it allows the D-line to pin it's ears back and rush the passer. I know that Peyton has tried to substitute the short pass in lieu of a running attack, but to make that effective you still have to have something that resembles a running attack between the tackles otherwise the Linebackers can shadow the back without being worried about the middle of the field. Agreed. The Saints have rushed well between the tackles at times. Then they get away from it. The real elephant is Reggie's inability to run in the middle of the field or the loss of Duece or lack of using Duece when we had him. I disagree with this. Reggie has proved that if you give him the ball 20 times in a game, he'll get you a buck and change. And that's running the ball inside the tackles. But Coach runs Stecker out there. Then he pulls Karney. Then he starts to have Brees sling the ball. Bush isn't going to bust a 60 yard TD every time he touches the ball inside the tackles. But he's had several 10-20 yard runs during the course of the season. Until we can make defenses stay honest in the middle of the field we should expect more of the same. That's right. The Saints base formation needs to be the I with Karney at fullback and PT23 or Reggie in the TB slot. Let Bush go wide sometimes. But run the ball from the formation. Set up play action. Then you'll get more explosive plays down the field with less hits and mistakes from Brees. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

11-24-2007, 09:09 AM	#3
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Originally Posted by FrenzyFan That's a wake up call. Everything you just said is true. This year Brees=Brooks?! If half of the tipped INT's and dropped passes went away, Brees' stats would look brilliant. Yep, he had a bad game or 2. It's the NFL. It happens.
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247

11-20-2007, 07:49 AM	#4
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Here is something to think about. I've had surgery on my shoulder also and it took close to 2 years for it to feel like it did before I tore the rotator cuff. In my opinion Drew's shoulder is probably getting close to 100% and his velocity is starting to increase on him as his shoulder strength increases and this is causing some inconsistency in his throws. Now granted this doesn't excuse some of his decision making but it could explain some of the throws. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but it is something to think about.

11-20-2007, 05:06 PM	#5
Kittykat 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 124	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? When Brees performs poorly I think it can be traced back to having almost zero protection. Get him under pressure and back-pedaling and it seems like an interception is a given. And I wonder why (as well) that he's not using more receivers than Colston or Bush?! Last year we spread it around to Copper, Henderson, Colston and Patten? Why not now? (Okay, I know why we don't throw to Henderson...) And for the love of God, why aren't we giving the ball to Stecker or Karney to pound it up the middle?? Granted, they won't get the yardage like Deuce but at least they'll run north and south and don't dance all over (and behind) the line of scrimmage everytime!

11-24-2007, 09:30 AM	#6
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Originally Posted by Kittykat And I wonder why (as well) that he's not using more receivers than Colston or Bush?! Last year we spread it around to Copper, Henderson, Colston and Patten? Why not now? (Okay, I know why we don't throw to Henderson...) True,,, and what happened to Lance Moore? * Patten and Moore had some great games this year, then seemingly dropped off the radar. Has Drew lost his ability to spread the ball around, or just doesn't have time? *After Lance did that silly dance, he seems to have disappeared. Only 2-3 catches since then.
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247

11-20-2007, 08:11 PM	#7
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Drew Brees is exactly what he has always been. Its no surprise that you need people around Brees for him to be successful. If you think other wise you are kidding yourself. He was only as good as the people around him is SD. This comes as no surprise and should not be any big deal. We went with him at QB and so you made the commitment to load the team up with talent around him. Unfortunately we haven't put enough around him yet. Brees is the right choice you're not going to find a better QB and addressing the QB position isn't going to win us any more games either. You have to bite the bullet and work out the issues on the lines and give some players some time to develop. Brees will be there if you get him some help. Going after a QB is going to open another can of worms and I am having a hard time dealing with the cans that are open now.
	E U P H O R I A

11-21-2007, 08:49 PM	#8
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Was on NFL.com looking up some stats for Fantasy Football and came across some stats for our starting qb. Over the last 6 games he is completing 70.4% for 1800 yds with 14 tds and 5 ints. That is not a bad stretch considering how one dimensional teams know we play and for us leading the league in dropped passes. I wonder what his completion % will be when the wrs start holding onto the ball. Brees>Brooks. Come on we dont wont to start comparing Brees and Brooks again. I think the best argument to that question is if we dropped Brees would he be sittin at home watching Dr Phil like Brooks is.
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167

11-21-2007, 09:04 PM	#9
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Drew is a very QB without a doubt. No one man makes a team. I like the choice of him to help the young guys grow and on offense we have nothing but young players.

11-22-2007, 01:03 AM	#10
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,761	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Ok....I don't post many comments, however, I read a great many. This post is irritating. First of all, Brees is the one of the best FA pick ups we have ever had, as previously mentioned. Next, Brees is a fantastic QB and probably one of the best we have ever had. There is no comparison to AB. Look, Brees has had some bad games this year...that happens to every QB in the game. The offense is plagued by inconsistency (from all players), poor offensive line play, dropped passes, fumbles and a very lack luster or even non-existant rushing game. The play calling has been one demensional. The bottom line is Brees is a great quarterback. He has been the one of the lone bright spots for the Saints all year long. He is an accurate, dependable and responsible leader that the team has needed for years. He is poised, respectable and accountable. Why anyone would want to look in another direction is rediculous. I cannot even begin to understand why anyone on this forum thinks that this guy is not the future of this team. He is the leader. Generals can only be as good as the men they have at their side.