The Elephant in the Living Room?

Budsdrinker · 11-20-2007, 07:49 AM

Here is something to think about. I've had surgery on my shoulder also and it took close to 2 years for it to feel like it did before I tore the rotator cuff. In my opinion Drew's shoulder is probably getting close to 100% and his velocity is starting to increase on him as his shoulder strength increases and this is causing some inconsistency in his throws. Now granted this doesn't excuse some of his decision making but it could explain some of the throws. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but it is something to think about.

Kittykat · 11-20-2007, 05:06 PM

When Brees performs poorly I think it can be traced back to having almost zero protection. Get him under pressure and back-pedaling and it seems like an interception is a given.

And I wonder why (as well) that he's not using more receivers than Colston or Bush?! Last year we spread it around to Copper, Henderson, Colston and Patten? Why not now? (Okay, I know why we don't throw to Henderson...)

And for the love of God, why aren't we giving the ball to Stecker or Karney to pound it up the middle?? Granted, they won't get the yardage like Deuce but at least they'll run north and south and don't dance all over (and behind) the line of scrimmage everytime!

leilung · 11-20-2007, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

The bold print says it all. Brees is a good quarterback. Not perfect but very good. I wouldn't replace him with many qb's out there. You want AB back? Martin? Palko? Shoot, how about starters on many other teams? No, Brees is not at all the player to replace. Linebackers, corners, receivers, runningbacks, linemen, kicker... I'd worry about these positions before even thinking about replacing Brees.

Originally Posted by dasaints26

And how many qb's in the NFL would you take as a replacement? How many qb's would you take and say this team would be 6-4 or 7-3 right now?

Whoa, whoa there fellas! Who said anything about replacing Brees? For the record, I'm of the belief that he is probably the greatest FA pickup this franchise has ever had. If we're smart, we will build around the guy and be a force to be reckoned with for years to come. That being said...

I get the sense that some of us guys are pretty quick with praise when he has a 350+ yard, 2 TD game. But my point in starting this thread is to point out that many of this team's ills can be linked to our inability to control/ protect the ball from being turned over. It seems like everyone on the team gets nit-picked on performance, but somehow, when it comes to #9, there's almost an 'off-limits' attitude when it comes to critiquing his poor play.

Sorry, but I don't think ANYONE (GM on down to the Waterboy) on this team deserves a 'Mulligan' for the way they've been playing.

Tipped passes, altered passing lanes, and pressure are only a few of the valid reasons for the high number of INT's from Brees this season. But these are things any QB deals with in playing and veterans know what to do to adjust fire and continue the fight, but I don't see that happening. If Brees is playing hurt or less than 100%, then what's our alternative?

From what I see of the stat-line, the bottom line appears to be: We don't turn the ball over and we win (generally speaking). The bulk of the TO's are coming from the QB position. Shouldn't he be doing more to protect the ball, even if that means throwing it away or eating the sack?

Euphoria · 11-20-2007, 08:11 PM

Drew Brees is exactly what he has always been. Its no surprise that you need people around Brees for him to be successful. If you think other wise you are kidding yourself. He was only as good as the people around him is SD.

This comes as no surprise and should not be any big deal. We went with him at QB and so you made the commitment to load the team up with talent around him. Unfortunately we haven't put enough around him yet.

Brees is the right choice you're not going to find a better QB and addressing the QB position isn't going to win us any more games either. You have to bite the bullet and work out the issues on the lines and give some players some time to develop. Brees will be there if you get him some help. Going after a QB is going to open another can of worms and I am having a hard time dealing with the cans that are open now.

dasaints26 · 11-21-2007, 08:49 PM

Was on NFL.com looking up some stats for Fantasy Football and came across some stats for our starting qb. Over the last 6 games he is completing 70.4% for 1800 yds with 14 tds and 5 ints. That is not a bad stretch considering how one dimensional teams know we play and for us leading the league in dropped passes. I wonder what his completion % will be when the wrs start holding onto the ball.
Brees>Brooks. Come on we dont wont to start comparing Brees and Brooks again. I think the best argument to that question is if we dropped Brees would he be sittin at home watching Dr Phil like Brooks is.

hagan714 · 11-21-2007, 09:04 PM

Drew is a very QB without a doubt. No one man makes a team. I like the choice of him to help the young guys grow and on offense we have nothing but young players.

jnormand · 11-22-2007, 01:03 AM

Ok....I don't post many comments, however, I read a great many. This post is irritating.

First of all, Brees is the one of the best FA pick ups we have ever had, as previously mentioned. Next, Brees is a fantastic QB and probably one of the best we have ever had. There is no comparison to AB.

Look, Brees has had some bad games this year...that happens to every QB in the game. The offense is plagued by inconsistency (from all players), poor offensive line play, dropped passes, fumbles and a very lack luster or even non-existant rushing game. The play calling has been one demensional.

The bottom line is Brees is a great quarterback. He has been the one of the lone bright spots for the Saints all year long. He is an accurate, dependable and responsible leader that the team has needed for years. He is poised, respectable and accountable. Why anyone would want to look in another direction is rediculous.

I cannot even begin to understand why anyone on this forum thinks that this guy is not the future of this team. He is the leader. Generals can only be as good as the men they have at their side.

EJAMM · 11-22-2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by jnormand

Ok....I don't post many comments, however, I read a great many. This post is irritating.

First of all, Brees is the one of the best FA pick ups we have ever had, as previously mentioned. Next, Brees is a fantastic QB and probably one of the best we have ever had. There is no comparison to AB.

Look, Brees has had some bad games this year...that happens to every QB in the game. The offense is plagued by inconsistency (from all players), poor offensive line play, dropped passes, fumbles and a very lack luster or even non-existant rushing game. The play calling has been one demensional.

The bottom line is Brees is a great quarterback. He has been the one of the lone bright spots for the Saints all year long. He is an accurate, dependable and responsible leader that the team has needed for years. He is poised, respectable and accountable. Why anyone would want to look in another direction is rediculous.

I cannot even begin to understand why anyone on this forum thinks that this guy is not the future of this team. He is the leader. Generals can only be as good as the men they have at their side.

Nice post. I agree that the problem is not Drew Brees. Brees is a great QB and fits extremely well into the Saints gameplan, unfortunately there are other players that are letting the team down thereby creating the one-dimensional play calling. What makes Brees great is the fact he gives 100% to the gameplan he is given from Coach Payton. He doesn't argue or question but rather just goes out and tries his level best to execute. That comment cannot be applied to other players who cannot seem to grasp the gameplan...namely Jason David. Jason David singlehandedly buries the Saints into a position of a one-dimensional offense. Any team in the NFL can compete on a professional level when they know the opponent is one-dimensional. If only Jason David could fake an injury to be pulled from the game so the Saints could put some points on the board.

My thoughts

andersen · 11-22-2007, 08:47 AM

The elephant in the room? You guys are beating him up, when the real problem is (and has been since last year), the pathetic performance of the defense. They couldn't stop the run last year and we took it. This year, they make 3rd string QB's look like all-pros. The front four cannot pressure without a blitz package on. The DB's can't cover with a blitz package on. The LB's can't get out of their own way.
Granted Drew needs to protect the ball more and stop pressing the situations. But, I'm sure he (and Coach, too) feel they have to press to score enough points to win with this crappy defense.

bobad · 11-24-2007, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by FrenzyFan

That's a wake up call. Everything you just said is true. This year Brees=Brooks?!

If half of the tipped INT's and dropped passes went away, Brees' stats would look brilliant.

Yep, he had a bad game or 2. It's the NFL. It happens.

11-20-2007, 07:49 AM	#11
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Here is something to think about. I've had surgery on my shoulder also and it took close to 2 years for it to feel like it did before I tore the rotator cuff. In my opinion Drew's shoulder is probably getting close to 100% and his velocity is starting to increase on him as his shoulder strength increases and this is causing some inconsistency in his throws. Now granted this doesn't excuse some of his decision making but it could explain some of the throws. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but it is something to think about.

11-20-2007, 05:06 PM	#12
Kittykat 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 124	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? When Brees performs poorly I think it can be traced back to having almost zero protection. Get him under pressure and back-pedaling and it seems like an interception is a given. And I wonder why (as well) that he's not using more receivers than Colston or Bush?! Last year we spread it around to Copper, Henderson, Colston and Patten? Why not now? (Okay, I know why we don't throw to Henderson...) And for the love of God, why aren't we giving the ball to Stecker or Karney to pound it up the middle?? Granted, they won't get the yardage like Deuce but at least they'll run north and south and don't dance all over (and behind) the line of scrimmage everytime!

11-20-2007, 07:43 PM	#13
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,351	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Originally Posted by iceshack149 The bold print says it all. Brees is a good quarterback. Not perfect but very good. I wouldn't replace him with many qb's out there. You want AB back? Martin? Palko? Shoot, how about starters on many other teams? No, Brees is not at all the player to replace. Linebackers, corners, receivers, runningbacks, linemen, kicker... I'd worry about these positions before even thinking about replacing Brees. Originally Posted by dasaints26 And how many qb's in the NFL would you take as a replacement? How many qb's would you take and say this team would be 6-4 or 7-3 right now? Whoa, whoa there fellas! Who said anything about replacing Brees? For the record, I'm of the belief that he is probably the greatest FA pickup this franchise has ever had. If we're smart, we will build around the guy and be a force to be reckoned with for years to come. That being said... I get the sense that some of us guys are pretty quick with praise when he has a 350+ yard, 2 TD game. But my point in starting this thread is to point out that many of this team's ills can be linked to our inability to control/ protect the ball from being turned over. It seems like everyone on the team gets nit-picked on performance, but somehow, when it comes to #9, there's almost an 'off-limits' attitude when it comes to critiquing his poor play. Sorry, but I don't think ANYONE (GM on down to the Waterboy) on this team deserves a 'Mulligan' for the way they've been playing. Tipped passes, altered passing lanes, and pressure are only a few of the valid reasons for the high number of INT's from Brees this season. But these are things any QB deals with in playing and veterans know what to do to adjust fire and continue the fight, but I don't see that happening. If Brees is playing hurt or less than 100%, then what's our alternative? From what I see of the stat-line, the bottom line appears to be: We don't turn the ball over and we win (generally speaking). The bulk of the TO's are coming from the QB position. Shouldn't he be doing more to protect the ball, even if that means throwing it away or eating the sack?
	A wise man once said, "Poo-poo smells just as bad as s#!%. One just SOUNDS cuter!"

11-20-2007, 08:11 PM	#14
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Drew Brees is exactly what he has always been. Its no surprise that you need people around Brees for him to be successful. If you think other wise you are kidding yourself. He was only as good as the people around him is SD. This comes as no surprise and should not be any big deal. We went with him at QB and so you made the commitment to load the team up with talent around him. Unfortunately we haven't put enough around him yet. Brees is the right choice you're not going to find a better QB and addressing the QB position isn't going to win us any more games either. You have to bite the bullet and work out the issues on the lines and give some players some time to develop. Brees will be there if you get him some help. Going after a QB is going to open another can of worms and I am having a hard time dealing with the cans that are open now.
	E U P H O R I A

11-21-2007, 08:49 PM	#15
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Was on NFL.com looking up some stats for Fantasy Football and came across some stats for our starting qb. Over the last 6 games he is completing 70.4% for 1800 yds with 14 tds and 5 ints. That is not a bad stretch considering how one dimensional teams know we play and for us leading the league in dropped passes. I wonder what his completion % will be when the wrs start holding onto the ball. Brees>Brooks. Come on we dont wont to start comparing Brees and Brooks again. I think the best argument to that question is if we dropped Brees would he be sittin at home watching Dr Phil like Brooks is.
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167

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11-21-2007, 09:04 PM	#16
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Drew is a very QB without a doubt. No one man makes a team. I like the choice of him to help the young guys grow and on offense we have nothing but young players.

11-22-2007, 01:03 AM	#17
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,647	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Ok....I don't post many comments, however, I read a great many. This post is irritating. First of all, Brees is the one of the best FA pick ups we have ever had, as previously mentioned. Next, Brees is a fantastic QB and probably one of the best we have ever had. There is no comparison to AB. Look, Brees has had some bad games this year...that happens to every QB in the game. The offense is plagued by inconsistency (from all players), poor offensive line play, dropped passes, fumbles and a very lack luster or even non-existant rushing game. The play calling has been one demensional. The bottom line is Brees is a great quarterback. He has been the one of the lone bright spots for the Saints all year long. He is an accurate, dependable and responsible leader that the team has needed for years. He is poised, respectable and accountable. Why anyone would want to look in another direction is rediculous. I cannot even begin to understand why anyone on this forum thinks that this guy is not the future of this team. He is the leader. Generals can only be as good as the men they have at their side.

11-22-2007, 08:43 AM	#18
EJAMM Rookie Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Originally Posted by jnormand Ok....I don't post many comments, however, I read a great many. This post is irritating. First of all, Brees is the one of the best FA pick ups we have ever had, as previously mentioned. Next, Brees is a fantastic QB and probably one of the best we have ever had. There is no comparison to AB. Look, Brees has had some bad games this year...that happens to every QB in the game. The offense is plagued by inconsistency (from all players), poor offensive line play, dropped passes, fumbles and a very lack luster or even non-existant rushing game. The play calling has been one demensional. The bottom line is Brees is a great quarterback. He has been the one of the lone bright spots for the Saints all year long. He is an accurate, dependable and responsible leader that the team has needed for years. He is poised, respectable and accountable. Why anyone would want to look in another direction is rediculous. I cannot even begin to understand why anyone on this forum thinks that this guy is not the future of this team. He is the leader. Generals can only be as good as the men they have at their side. Nice post. I agree that the problem is not Drew Brees. Brees is a great QB and fits extremely well into the Saints gameplan, unfortunately there are other players that are letting the team down thereby creating the one-dimensional play calling. What makes Brees great is the fact he gives 100% to the gameplan he is given from Coach Payton. He doesn't argue or question but rather just goes out and tries his level best to execute. That comment cannot be applied to other players who cannot seem to grasp the gameplan...namely Jason David. Jason David singlehandedly buries the Saints into a position of a one-dimensional offense. Any team in the NFL can compete on a professional level when they know the opponent is one-dimensional. If only Jason David could fake an injury to be pulled from the game so the Saints could put some points on the board. My thoughts
EJAMM Rookie Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 13

11-22-2007, 08:47 AM	#19
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? The elephant in the room? You guys are beating him up, when the real problem is (and has been since last year), the pathetic performance of the defense. They couldn't stop the run last year and we took it. This year, they make 3rd string QB's look like all-pros. The front four cannot pressure without a blitz package on. The DB's can't cover with a blitz package on. The LB's can't get out of their own way. Granted Drew needs to protect the ball more and stop pressing the situations. But, I'm sure he (and Coach, too) feel they have to press to score enough points to win with this crappy defense.
	Seated in the top row of AREA 51?

11-24-2007, 09:09 AM	#20
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247	Re: The Elephant in the Living Room? Originally Posted by FrenzyFan That's a wake up call. Everything you just said is true. This year Brees=Brooks?! If half of the tipped INT's and dropped passes went away, Brees' stats would look brilliant. Yep, he had a bad game or 2. It's the NFL. It happens.
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247