It's not all on Jason David

WhoDat205 · 11-20-2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

I'm not disagreeing with you on Bullocks, but you cannot train the safeties to just drop back in support at any cost, because that cost is having the middle of the field open. That was my point about the safeties tackling WRs after the 73 yd TD. Because they are dropping back to support a guy who cannot cover my grandmother - and she's dead - the mid-range was opened to the TEs. I do understand the point about the FS supporting David, but he cannot possibly support him on EVERY pass play.

..and I will agree with you about the coaching. At one point, you got to realize 3rd Down can't handle it and find someone to replace him

You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there?

My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast.

JOESAM2002 · 11-20-2007, 10:36 AM

"but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast."

Maybe for most, this is true but I see them, having played a bit of MLB. He does get trapped quite a bit and is caught in the melee a good bit. He's not a starter in my books either. But neither was I to some. I just stuck my nose where I thought it should be. I was slow by all descriptions But was rarely out of place. I wasn't afraid to place myself anywhere, hence the physical condition I'm in now. $ knee operations,9 bad discs. Any various aand sundry other things we won't go into. But Simomeau is the best we have right now. He's not great, but by the same token he ain't terrible either. I have seen worse with the Saints. Don't ask me to name them right now cause I can't. I just feel,he gave up one touchdown this week to a tightend, but David has given up a multitude of touchdowns this season.

Tobias-Reiper · 11-20-2007, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there?

My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast.

… and I agree with you, there is plenty of blame to go around.
And Simoneau isn’t Singletary, no question.
But it is not that 3rd Down’s mistakes are more visible, sure they are, but how often they come, and how devastating they are to any momentum the team can amass.

At least Simoneau is in the middle of the play; he may get pushed around, but at least he’s there. But every time you see that #42 running 10 yards behind a streaking Andre Johnson or Joey Galloway or Terry Holt or whoever happens to be on that side of the field for a long TD or a long 3rd down conversion, you ask yourself, who or what the hell was David covering?

… and I guess as long as I’m piling it on 3rd Down, I need to pile it on the coaching staff for allowing this to happen. Try Jason Craft, or Fred Thomas. Heck, try Lance Moore at CB. Can’t get any worst than it is now, that’s for sure…

TheDeuce · 11-20-2007, 11:53 AM

When can we all just come to the realization that this team is just bad. Here are the players I'd keep on this defense:

Charles Grant, Will Smith, Scott Fujita, Mike McKenzie, and maybe Roman Harper.

Simoneau is terrible. Too slow to cover anybody in the NFL, it's just a joke to put him against any athletic TE (see Dallas Clark, Randy McMichael, and Owen Daniels' performances).

Shanle is a good backup, so it's a good thing we have him starting.

Jason David is hands down the worst cornerback in the NFL. Not even Fred Thomas got burned this consistently.

Bullocks seems to be regressing every season. He's a liability in pass coverage, but unlike Roy Williams who is just as bad in pass coverage, Bullocks doesn't make up for it with good run support.

Our DTs are a bunch of scrubs. Sure Hollis is fun to watch because he's so fat and he can move, but the interior of the line gets no push. Besides HT, we have a bunch of street free agents that nobody else wanted. Again, the problem is that they are starting for us.

WhoDat205 · 11-20-2007, 12:11 PM

David is the worst cog in the machine, without a doubt.

I disagree with one thing that The Deuce said, though. I like our DTs a lot. Brian Young was playing at a high level before he got hurt. He was making sacks and playing good run D. HT may just go to the probowl this year. He's been lights out in the run game.

Euphoria · 11-20-2007, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized.

It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault.

Thank you. I am not in support of David at he is guilty as much as the next guy but to sit down and look at the play and how each member of the unit reacts and if they are carrying out there assignments the Safties are VERY SUSPECT. Bullocks is out of place and running around like a chicken with his head cut off. I know there were a lot of people excited about him when we got him but he isn't doing his job. The Texan throw the ball where ever he was more times than any other DB. I wounder if they saw the same thing I did... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there.

papz · 11-20-2007, 01:29 PM

... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there.

Neither is David for that matter. Yet you're still in favor of starting David, stating that he isn't bad, good tackler, plays with great intensity, and he's the best we have.

All proven to be wrong.

spkb25 · 11-20-2007, 10:33 PM

Tobias you are dead on. I think when david was hurt our defense played much better. when you have a hole on that side at corner, like we do, it makes everything else open up. we are basically playing 10 on 11 ball, all game. wheres the kid?????? is he hurt still?

darstep · 11-21-2007, 11:08 AM

[QUOTE=WhoDat205;146928]David is the worst cog in the machine, without a doubt.[QUOTE]

WITHOUT A DOUBT! He's a little guy but he has big heart. His size, lack of speed, along with his pooooooooooor technique has been atrocious this year. Remember how down everyone was last year on Freddie. I cringed when they picked up a 5' 8'' 180 corner as the address to our 5' 9" 185 corner troubles. I had no clue what they were thinking, especially when I was thinking about a 6' 3" 205 shutdown type corner...take half of the field out of play type corner...I dare you to look over here type corner. Hoping for the best hasn't help at all. Trying to root mediocrity up to the exceptional ranks has been a tough sell. We need quality players in several key spots on our D. It doesn't matter that we are small, and slow (everywhere), at least hit somebody when you are out there; punish some people after the catch. We have blown coverages, poor communications, poor technique on tackles, limited pressure, few take aways, low percentage 3rd down stops. Freddie should be starting!
Freddie should be starting over David! He is not the best ever, but he covers better than David. We need more blitz packages utilized to force quicker throws to designated cover areas. We need to do a better job of keeping these guys off of the field. I hope that we get our holes patched up with a good draft and aggressive FA acquisitions.

Tobias-Reiper · 11-21-2007, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by darstep

I had no clue what they were thinking, especially when I was thinking about a 6' 3" 205 shutdown type corner...take half of the field out of play type corner...I dare you to look over here type corner.

Man! Those were some lofty expectations. I just wanted to see someone at least 6' tall that could give the QB the impression of coverage from the far away

I know it's not going to happen, but that's why I'm hoping next FA period they go after that CB from Oakland... and how can they not... if not, I'm bringing back my Payslett moniker for coach..

11-20-2007, 10:24 AM	#11
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper I'm not disagreeing with you on Bullocks, but you cannot train the safeties to just drop back in support at any cost, because that cost is having the middle of the field open. That was my point about the safeties tackling WRs after the 73 yd TD. Because they are dropping back to support a guy who cannot cover my grandmother - and she's dead - the mid-range was opened to the TEs. I do understand the point about the FS supporting David, but he cannot possibly support him on EVERY pass play. ..and I will agree with you about the coaching. At one point, you got to realize 3rd Down can't handle it and find someone to replace him You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there? My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

11-20-2007, 10:36 AM	#12
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: It's not all on Jason David "but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast." Maybe for most, this is true but I see them, having played a bit of MLB. He does get trapped quite a bit and is caught in the melee a good bit. He's not a starter in my books either. But neither was I to some. I just stuck my nose where I thought it should be. I was slow by all descriptions But was rarely out of place. I wasn't afraid to place myself anywhere, hence the physical condition I'm in now. $ knee operations,9 bad discs. Any various aand sundry other things we won't go into. But Simomeau is the best we have right now. He's not great, but by the same token he ain't terrible either. I have seen worse with the Saints. Don't ask me to name them right now cause I can't. I just feel,he gave up one touchdown this week to a tightend, but David has given up a multitude of touchdowns this season.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

11-20-2007, 11:32 AM	#13
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by WhoDat205 You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there? My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast. … and I agree with you, there is plenty of blame to go around. And Simoneau isn’t Singletary, no question. But it is not that 3rd Down’s mistakes are more visible, sure they are, but how often they come, and how devastating they are to any momentum the team can amass. At least Simoneau is in the middle of the play; he may get pushed around, but at least he’s there. But every time you see that #42 running 10 yards behind a streaking Andre Johnson or Joey Galloway or Terry Holt or whoever happens to be on that side of the field for a long TD or a long 3rd down conversion, you ask yourself, who or what the hell was David covering? … and I guess as long as I’m piling it on 3rd Down, I need to pile it on the coaching staff for allowing this to happen. Try Jason Craft, or Fred Thomas. Heck, try Lance Moore at CB. Can’t get any worst than it is now, that’s for sure…
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

11-20-2007, 11:53 AM	#14
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: It's not all on Jason David When can we all just come to the realization that this team is just bad. Here are the players I'd keep on this defense: Charles Grant, Will Smith, Scott Fujita, Mike McKenzie, and maybe Roman Harper. Simoneau is terrible. Too slow to cover anybody in the NFL, it's just a joke to put him against any athletic TE (see Dallas Clark, Randy McMichael, and Owen Daniels' performances). Shanle is a good backup, so it's a good thing we have him starting. Jason David is hands down the worst cornerback in the NFL. Not even Fred Thomas got burned this consistently. Bullocks seems to be regressing every season. He's a liability in pass coverage, but unlike Roy Williams who is just as bad in pass coverage, Bullocks doesn't make up for it with good run support. Our DTs are a bunch of scrubs. Sure Hollis is fun to watch because he's so fat and he can move, but the interior of the line gets no push. Besides HT, we have a bunch of street free agents that nobody else wanted. Again, the problem is that they are starting for us.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-20-2007, 12:11 PM	#15
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: It's not all on Jason David David is the worst cog in the machine, without a doubt. I disagree with one thing that The Deuce said, though. I like our DTs a lot. Brian Young was playing at a high level before he got hurt. He was making sacks and playing good run D. HT may just go to the probowl this year. He's been lights out in the run game.

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11-20-2007, 12:56 PM	#16
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by WhoDat205 Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized. It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault. Thank you. I am not in support of David at he is guilty as much as the next guy but to sit down and look at the play and how each member of the unit reacts and if they are carrying out there assignments the Safties are VERY SUSPECT. Bullocks is out of place and running around like a chicken with his head cut off. I know there were a lot of people excited about him when we got him but he isn't doing his job. The Texan throw the ball where ever he was more times than any other DB. I wounder if they saw the same thing I did... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there.
	E U P H O R I A

11-20-2007, 01:29 PM	#17
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: It's not all on Jason David ... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there. Neither is David for that matter. Yet you're still in favor of starting David, stating that he isn't bad, good tackler, plays with great intensity, and he's the best we have. All proven to be wrong.

11-20-2007, 10:33 PM	#18
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: It's not all on Jason David Tobias you are dead on. I think when david was hurt our defense played much better. when you have a hole on that side at corner, like we do, it makes everything else open up. we are basically playing 10 on 11 ball, all game. wheres the kid?????? is he hurt still?

11-21-2007, 11:08 AM	#19
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Re: It's not all on Jason David [QUOTE=WhoDat205;146928]David is the worst cog in the machine, without a doubt.[QUOTE] WITHOUT A DOUBT! He's a little guy but he has big heart. His size, lack of speed, along with his pooooooooooor technique has been atrocious this year. Remember how down everyone was last year on Freddie. I cringed when they picked up a 5' 8'' 180 corner as the address to our 5' 9" 185 corner troubles. I had no clue what they were thinking, especially when I was thinking about a 6' 3" 205 shutdown type corner...take half of the field out of play type corner...I dare you to look over here type corner. Hoping for the best hasn't help at all. Trying to root mediocrity up to the exceptional ranks has been a tough sell. We need quality players in several key spots on our D. It doesn't matter that we are small, and slow (everywhere), at least hit somebody when you are out there; punish some people after the catch. We have blown coverages, poor communications, poor technique on tackles, limited pressure, few take aways, low percentage 3rd down stops. Freddie should be starting! Freddie should be starting over David! He is not the best ever, but he covers better than David. We need more blitz packages utilized to force quicker throws to designated cover areas. We need to do a better job of keeping these guys off of the field. I hope that we get our holes patched up with a good draft and aggressive FA acquisitions.
	SaintSince67

11-21-2007, 11:54 AM	#20
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by darstep I had no clue what they were thinking, especially when I was thinking about a 6' 3" 205 shutdown type corner...take half of the field out of play type corner...I dare you to look over here type corner. Man! Those were some lofty expectations. I just wanted to see someone at least 6' tall that could give the QB the impression of coverage from the far away I know it's not going to happen, but that's why I'm hoping next FA period they go after that CB from Oakland... and how can they not... if not, I'm bringing back my Payslett moniker for coach..