It's not all on Jason David

WhoDat205 · 11-20-2007, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

I'm not disagreeing with you on Bullocks, but you cannot train the safeties to just drop back in support at any cost, because that cost is having the middle of the field open. That was my point about the safeties tackling WRs after the 73 yd TD. Because they are dropping back to support a guy who cannot cover my grandmother - and she's dead - the mid-range was opened to the TEs. I do understand the point about the FS supporting David, but he cannot possibly support him on EVERY pass play.

..and I will agree with you about the coaching. At one point, you got to realize 3rd Down can't handle it and find someone to replace him

You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there?

My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast.

JOESAM2002 · 11-20-2007, 09:36 AM

"but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast."

Maybe for most, this is true but I see them, having played a bit of MLB. He does get trapped quite a bit and is caught in the melee a good bit. He's not a starter in my books either. But neither was I to some. I just stuck my nose where I thought it should be. I was slow by all descriptions But was rarely out of place. I wasn't afraid to place myself anywhere, hence the physical condition I'm in now. $ knee operations,9 bad discs. Any various aand sundry other things we won't go into. But Simomeau is the best we have right now. He's not great, but by the same token he ain't terrible either. I have seen worse with the Saints. Don't ask me to name them right now cause I can't. I just feel,he gave up one touchdown this week to a tightend, but David has given up a multitude of touchdowns this season.

Tobias-Reiper · 11-20-2007, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there?

My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast.

… and I agree with you, there is plenty of blame to go around.
And Simoneau isn’t Singletary, no question.
But it is not that 3rd Down’s mistakes are more visible, sure they are, but how often they come, and how devastating they are to any momentum the team can amass.

At least Simoneau is in the middle of the play; he may get pushed around, but at least he’s there. But every time you see that #42 running 10 yards behind a streaking Andre Johnson or Joey Galloway or Terry Holt or whoever happens to be on that side of the field for a long TD or a long 3rd down conversion, you ask yourself, who or what the hell was David covering?

… and I guess as long as I’m piling it on 3rd Down, I need to pile it on the coaching staff for allowing this to happen. Try Jason Craft, or Fred Thomas. Heck, try Lance Moore at CB. Can’t get any worst than it is now, that’s for sure…

spkb25 · 11-20-2007, 09:33 PM

Tobias you are dead on. I think when david was hurt our defense played much better. when you have a hole on that side at corner, like we do, it makes everything else open up. we are basically playing 10 on 11 ball, all game. wheres the kid?????? is he hurt still?

CheramieIII · 11-21-2007, 07:03 PM

Bullocks should have been the center fielder on that play but got suckered into a play action so bad his momma is still trying to get up from the stroke she had, but David should have had the coverage no doubt. 75% David, 25% Bullocks and if I see David jogging after another wide receiver who just beat him by 20 yards I'm gonna, well do nothing because I'm not Payvid (my new name for coach payton since he's joined at the hip with David) but if I were I would bench him early, soon and often, like right freaking now. Even if coach has faith in him no one else on the team does and that hurt's the team. Hell, David even know's he's screwing up every game and ain't doing a damn thing to change it, same ole same ole in the Big Easy folks.

Johnson should be fined a games pay for that crap. He gets paid good money to what? Oh yeah deflect balls so the other team can catch them, what a freaking loser.

We need a defensive coach and Gibbs isn't it, ever wonder why the Big Tuna was ok with let some of the coaches come on over, because he knew they were crap.

Coach better pull his head out quick. Thomas is a great athlete probably a better runner than Reggie from behind the line and we don't play him. Why Coach, Why? Because your stupid that's why or I guess we need to showcase Bush for the NFL and his sponsors. Are you getting a kickback for the crap.

Man it's the same ole crap in the Big Easy and we should all be mad as hell. Just when you think they're going to do it they freaking fold, Does anyone remember our first playoff game. When the hopes were so high, or the playoff game in New Orleans against the Vikings and we got beat 400 to 3 or something like that. We've all seen this crap before and we shouldn't be surprised but we should be mad as hell.

I'm gonna give coach the benefit of the doubt until the second game of next season then I'm taking the gloves off. He earned that much from last year, but coach get your head out dude and soon because it's going to get ugly if you don't pay attention/ I don't think you will last as long as Haslett did and once you get fired from New Orleans head coaching jobs are hard to find in the NFL.

Euphoria · 11-20-2007, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized.

It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault.

Thank you. I am not in support of David at he is guilty as much as the next guy but to sit down and look at the play and how each member of the unit reacts and if they are carrying out there assignments the Safties are VERY SUSPECT. Bullocks is out of place and running around like a chicken with his head cut off. I know there were a lot of people excited about him when we got him but he isn't doing his job. The Texan throw the ball where ever he was more times than any other DB. I wounder if they saw the same thing I did... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there.

papz · 11-20-2007, 12:29 PM

... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there.

Neither is David for that matter. Yet you're still in favor of starting David, stating that he isn't bad, good tackler, plays with great intensity, and he's the best we have.

All proven to be wrong.

Euphoria · 11-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Neither is David for that matter. Yet you're still in favor of starting David, stating that he isn't bad, good tackler, plays with great intensity, and he's the best we have.

All proven to be wrong.

So you'd be in favor of starting 10 people on Defense instead of 11?

I think everyone has forgot how bad Fred Thomas was picked on... it was way worse and he made no plays. We go out and bring Craft in becuase he was so bad. Craft couldn't get the job done as a starting CB so we go out and look for another CB. The best CB's on our roster outside of MM is David and I'd start craft in the Nickeal.

You want to make the D better I suggest you fire the D Coach and get someone with a philosophy that works and knows how to coach these guys up and play DISIPLINED FOOTBALL. The problem is that we aren't playing disiplined football and that falls squarely on the Coaches no one else. When players aren't in the position they are suppose to be in to make plays its because they don't know where they are suppose to be or what they are suppose to be doing. That my friends is the problem. Its not one player its all of them on that D. No one is getting the job done.

When you call a defense play if you will. Everyone is suppose to know what the others are doing and where everyones area of responsiblity. They are clueless out there at times. COACHES FAULT not coaching up the D and preparing the dam team each week.

Do you think its funny that the D coach and others came from Dallas who weren't that good and now all of sudden they lose the coaches and now Dallas is good HMMMMM.

TheDeuce · 11-21-2007, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I think everyone has forgot how bad Fred Thomas was picked on... it was way worse and he made no plays.

No way I'm buying that one. Fred gave up 2 touchdowns last year during his "toast" phase, right? David has given up about 1 a game while he's been healthy.

And don't forget that the only reason why Fred got burnt so bad was because he is waaaaaayyyyyyy past his prime. He got beat because he's lost a step. Jason David cannot claim the same thing. He's supposed to be entering his prime right now, and he's getting beaten more consistently than any cornerback I've ever seen. The guy is terrible.

Sure he has had a few "plays" that he's made, but do they make up for the 5 or 6 touchdowns he's given up? Not even close. Hearing his name literally makes me want to puke. I don't even feel bad for him, that's how bad he is. Typically I would feel a little sympathy for a guy who gets beaten that badly, but Jason David makes me want to vomit. There's no excuse for playing him. I'd move Roman Harper or somebody over to CB before I put Jason David in there again.

On a side note: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO PAYTON NOT PLAYING FAVORITES? (DAVID, SIMONEAU, MARE....)

TheDeuce · 11-20-2007, 10:53 AM

When can we all just come to the realization that this team is just bad. Here are the players I'd keep on this defense:

Charles Grant, Will Smith, Scott Fujita, Mike McKenzie, and maybe Roman Harper.

Simoneau is terrible. Too slow to cover anybody in the NFL, it's just a joke to put him against any athletic TE (see Dallas Clark, Randy McMichael, and Owen Daniels' performances).

Shanle is a good backup, so it's a good thing we have him starting.

Jason David is hands down the worst cornerback in the NFL. Not even Fred Thomas got burned this consistently.

Bullocks seems to be regressing every season. He's a liability in pass coverage, but unlike Roy Williams who is just as bad in pass coverage, Bullocks doesn't make up for it with good run support.

Our DTs are a bunch of scrubs. Sure Hollis is fun to watch because he's so fat and he can move, but the interior of the line gets no push. Besides HT, we have a bunch of street free agents that nobody else wanted. Again, the problem is that they are starting for us.

11-20-2007, 09:24 AM	#1
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper I'm not disagreeing with you on Bullocks, but you cannot train the safeties to just drop back in support at any cost, because that cost is having the middle of the field open. That was my point about the safeties tackling WRs after the 73 yd TD. Because they are dropping back to support a guy who cannot cover my grandmother - and she's dead - the mid-range was opened to the TEs. I do understand the point about the FS supporting David, but he cannot possibly support him on EVERY pass play. ..and I will agree with you about the coaching. At one point, you got to realize 3rd Down can't handle it and find someone to replace him You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there? My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

11-20-2007, 09:36 AM	#2
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: It's not all on Jason David "but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast." Maybe for most, this is true but I see them, having played a bit of MLB. He does get trapped quite a bit and is caught in the melee a good bit. He's not a starter in my books either. But neither was I to some. I just stuck my nose where I thought it should be. I was slow by all descriptions But was rarely out of place. I wasn't afraid to place myself anywhere, hence the physical condition I'm in now. $ knee operations,9 bad discs. Any various aand sundry other things we won't go into. But Simomeau is the best we have right now. He's not great, but by the same token he ain't terrible either. I have seen worse with the Saints. Don't ask me to name them right now cause I can't. I just feel,he gave up one touchdown this week to a tightend, but David has given up a multitude of touchdowns this season.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

11-20-2007, 10:32 AM	#3
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by WhoDat205 You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there? My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast. … and I agree with you, there is plenty of blame to go around. And Simoneau isn’t Singletary, no question. But it is not that 3rd Down’s mistakes are more visible, sure they are, but how often they come, and how devastating they are to any momentum the team can amass. At least Simoneau is in the middle of the play; he may get pushed around, but at least he’s there. But every time you see that #42 running 10 yards behind a streaking Andre Johnson or Joey Galloway or Terry Holt or whoever happens to be on that side of the field for a long TD or a long 3rd down conversion, you ask yourself, who or what the hell was David covering? … and I guess as long as I’m piling it on 3rd Down, I need to pile it on the coaching staff for allowing this to happen. Try Jason Craft, or Fred Thomas. Heck, try Lance Moore at CB. Can’t get any worst than it is now, that’s for sure…
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

11-21-2007, 07:03 PM	#5
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,496 Blog Entries: 3	Re: It's not all on Jason David Bullocks should have been the center fielder on that play but got suckered into a play action so bad his momma is still trying to get up from the stroke she had, but David should have had the coverage no doubt. 75% David, 25% Bullocks and if I see David jogging after another wide receiver who just beat him by 20 yards I'm gonna, well do nothing because I'm not Payvid (my new name for coach payton since he's joined at the hip with David) but if I were I would bench him early, soon and often, like right freaking now. Even if coach has faith in him no one else on the team does and that hurt's the team. Hell, David even know's he's screwing up every game and ain't doing a damn thing to change it, same ole same ole in the Big Easy folks. Johnson should be fined a games pay for that crap. He gets paid good money to what? Oh yeah deflect balls so the other team can catch them, what a freaking loser. We need a defensive coach and Gibbs isn't it, ever wonder why the Big Tuna was ok with let some of the coaches come on over, because he knew they were crap. Coach better pull his head out quick. Thomas is a great athlete probably a better runner than Reggie from behind the line and we don't play him. Why Coach, Why? Because your stupid that's why or I guess we need to showcase Bush for the NFL and his sponsors. Are you getting a kickback for the crap. Man it's the same ole crap in the Big Easy and we should all be mad as hell. Just when you think they're going to do it they freaking fold, Does anyone remember our first playoff game. When the hopes were so high, or the playoff game in New Orleans against the Vikings and we got beat 400 to 3 or something like that. We've all seen this crap before and we shouldn't be surprised but we should be mad as hell. I'm gonna give coach the benefit of the doubt until the second game of next season then I'm taking the gloves off. He earned that much from last year, but coach get your head out dude and soon because it's going to get ugly if you don't pay attention/ I don't think you will last as long as Haslett did and once you get fired from New Orleans head coaching jobs are hard to find in the NFL.
	Golf and sex are about the only things you can enjoy without being good at them. Jimmy Demaret

11-20-2007, 11:56 AM	#6
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by WhoDat205 Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized. It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault. Thank you. I am not in support of David at he is guilty as much as the next guy but to sit down and look at the play and how each member of the unit reacts and if they are carrying out there assignments the Safties are VERY SUSPECT. Bullocks is out of place and running around like a chicken with his head cut off. I know there were a lot of people excited about him when we got him but he isn't doing his job. The Texan throw the ball where ever he was more times than any other DB. I wounder if they saw the same thing I did... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there.
	E U P H O R I A

11-20-2007, 09:33 PM	#4
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,138	Re: It's not all on Jason David Tobias you are dead on. I think when david was hurt our defense played much better. when you have a hole on that side at corner, like we do, it makes everything else open up. we are basically playing 10 on 11 ball, all game. wheres the kid?????? is he hurt still?

11-20-2007, 12:29 PM	#7
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: It's not all on Jason David ... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there. Neither is David for that matter. Yet you're still in favor of starting David, stating that he isn't bad, good tackler, plays with great intensity, and he's the best we have. All proven to be wrong.

11-21-2007, 11:42 AM	#8
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by papz Neither is David for that matter. Yet you're still in favor of starting David, stating that he isn't bad, good tackler, plays with great intensity, and he's the best we have. All proven to be wrong. So you'd be in favor of starting 10 people on Defense instead of 11? I think everyone has forgot how bad Fred Thomas was picked on... it was way worse and he made no plays. We go out and bring Craft in becuase he was so bad. Craft couldn't get the job done as a starting CB so we go out and look for another CB. The best CB's on our roster outside of MM is David and I'd start craft in the Nickeal. You want to make the D better I suggest you fire the D Coach and get someone with a philosophy that works and knows how to coach these guys up and play DISIPLINED FOOTBALL. The problem is that we aren't playing disiplined football and that falls squarely on the Coaches no one else. When players aren't in the position they are suppose to be in to make plays its because they don't know where they are suppose to be or what they are suppose to be doing. That my friends is the problem. Its not one player its all of them on that D. No one is getting the job done. When you call a defense play if you will. Everyone is suppose to know what the others are doing and where everyones area of responsiblity. They are clueless out there at times. COACHES FAULT not coaching up the D and preparing the dam team each week. Do you think its funny that the D coach and others came from Dallas who weren't that good and now all of sudden they lose the coaches and now Dallas is good HMMMMM.
	E U P H O R I A

11-21-2007, 06:25 PM	#9
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by Euphoria I think everyone has forgot how bad Fred Thomas was picked on... it was way worse and he made no plays. No way I'm buying that one. Fred gave up 2 touchdowns last year during his "toast" phase, right? David has given up about 1 a game while he's been healthy. And don't forget that the only reason why Fred got burnt so bad was because he is waaaaaayyyyyyy past his prime. He got beat because he's lost a step. Jason David cannot claim the same thing. He's supposed to be entering his prime right now, and he's getting beaten more consistently than any cornerback I've ever seen. The guy is terrible. Sure he has had a few "plays" that he's made, but do they make up for the 5 or 6 touchdowns he's given up? Not even close. Hearing his name literally makes me want to puke. I don't even feel bad for him, that's how bad he is. Typically I would feel a little sympathy for a guy who gets beaten that badly, but Jason David makes me want to vomit. There's no excuse for playing him. I'd move Roman Harper or somebody over to CB before I put Jason David in there again. On a side note: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO PAYTON NOT PLAYING FAVORITES? (DAVID, SIMONEAU, MARE....)
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

11-20-2007, 10:53 AM	#10
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: It's not all on Jason David When can we all just come to the realization that this team is just bad. Here are the players I'd keep on this defense: Charles Grant, Will Smith, Scott Fujita, Mike McKenzie, and maybe Roman Harper. Simoneau is terrible. Too slow to cover anybody in the NFL, it's just a joke to put him against any athletic TE (see Dallas Clark, Randy McMichael, and Owen Daniels' performances). Shanle is a good backup, so it's a good thing we have him starting. Jason David is hands down the worst cornerback in the NFL. Not even Fred Thomas got burned this consistently. Bullocks seems to be regressing every season. He's a liability in pass coverage, but unlike Roy Williams who is just as bad in pass coverage, Bullocks doesn't make up for it with good run support. Our DTs are a bunch of scrubs. Sure Hollis is fun to watch because he's so fat and he can move, but the interior of the line gets no push. Besides HT, we have a bunch of street free agents that nobody else wanted. Again, the problem is that they are starting for us.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928