With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game

LordOfEntropy · 11-27-2007, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by OldiesDJ

Is this when he was being held up by 4-Panthers without any help and STILL remained on his feet fighting for whatever he could get?

The Panthers had a hard time tackling him. Many of his runs were blown dead by forward progress because Pierre just wouldn't go down.

Yeah, I think so. He reminded me of Deuce a little bit the way he stayed on his feet.

Crusader · 11-27-2007, 05:08 PM

I don't however like the runblocking of our O-line. We might have the best group in the leauge when it comes to passblocking but the runblocking looks slow and uninspired. A lot of times the hole is not there when it is supposed to. Stecker or Thomas will get tackled after 1 yard and people gonna say oh well. Bush gonna try to break it ouside or make a move losing 1 and then having people say he's not agood runningback int the NFL.

JOESAM2002 · 11-27-2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

I don't however like the runblocking of our O-line. We might have the best group in the leauge when it comes to passblocking but the runblocking looks slow and uninspired. A lot of times the hole is not there when it is supposed to. Stecker or Thomas will get tackled after 1 yard and people gonna say oh well. Bush gonna try to break it ouside or make a move losing 1 and then having people say he's not agood runningback int the NFL.

Now, does that say a lot. I agree. We block with the best of them in pass blocking and can't block anyone in running. THAT I can't understand. Maybe some of you guys that know so much about the offensive line play can explain it to an old linebacker.

LordOfEntropy · 11-27-2007, 07:03 PM

LB? Where'd you play JoeSam? 4/3 or 3/4? ILB, MLB, or OL? I heard you mention you did some time at center too. Curious...

I haven't played since jr high, what, 500 years ago? Had to get out because all the rest of the guys just started getting WAY too big. But I was a G and DT when I played - and I absolutely loved it. We hardly ever passed the ball, so I got to smash guys on both sides of the line most of the time. I loved it. Miss those days....

JOESAM2002 · 11-27-2007, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by LordOfEntropy

LB? Where'd you play JoeSam? 4/3 or 3/4? ILB, MLB, or OL? I heard you mention you did some time at center too. Curious...

I haven't played since jr high, what, 500 years ago? Had to get out because all the rest of the guys just started getting WAY too big. But I was a G and DT when I played - and I absolutely loved it. We hardly ever passed the ball, so I got to smash guys on both sides of the line most of the time. I loved it. Miss those days....

Back in my day we only knew about the 4-3. They stuck my butt right in the middle. I was slow but my lateral movement was pretty good. That plus the fact I'd stick my nose anywhere. I wasn't afraid of anything. Cost the hell out of me too. Now I fight with 4 knee operations, 4 bad discs in my neck and 5 bad ones in my lower back. I get cortazone shots in my discs at least once a month just so I can move. But hey, if I could, I'd do it again. I love the game that much. Doctors tell me the bone spurs in my shoulders look like the alps, lol. OH well, that's why I get all this big money and retired at the ripe old age of 55. By the way the big money was a joke.
As for the center part, God never,never,never again. that's on tough position to play. I told my coachs that if they made me play center any longer than the starting center was out, i'd never play another down of football. Man, that's a bad position, you can't really describe it unless you've played it, it's just tough.I salute anybody that can play that position for any length of time.

Back then, I was 6' 2" and weighed 225. And as I said,slow as molassas in winter.

LordOfEntropy · 11-28-2007, 08:45 AM

Jesus Joe, 4 knee operations? 255lb?! Was that high school or college? I'm glad I got out of football when I did. The rest of you guys just got too damn big.

I had a friend of mine that wanted to try out for RB at LSU, guy's name was Orlando. I used to bartend with him at Fat Harrys. Big guy. But the thing is, the manager at Fat Harrys played a little in college. He kept warning Orlando - don't do it man, don't do it, you'll regret it. I wonder if he survived - even the tryout.

Still, if I could have the days back when I played, I'd be all over it. It was that much fun.

WhoDat205 · 11-28-2007, 09:36 AM

Ahhh the glory days. My HS team had 17 players my senior year. I was the biggest lineman at 6'2", 225lbs. and never left the field. Needless to say we got our butt kicked on a regular basis. I was an OT and NG until I cracked the starting center's vertibrae on a wierd play. I had to take his spot. We ran a 4 and 5-wide spread type offense out of the shotgun. I'm still the best shotgun snapper in Mississippi 1-A HS football history

Joe, you were asking why these guys can pass block so well and run block so poorly. I've noticed two problems.

1. Bush is awful about hitting the hole and using blockers. I remember one play very distinctly. They ran a draw and the OL was manned up 5 on 5 with the Panters and it was a gimme 5 yd gain, but Bush bounced it for a 2 yd gain. That play was indicative of Bush's problems at RB. PT and Stecker both do it well. They use their burst at the hole and Reggie uses it latterally to try to beat the D to the corner.

2. The blocking schemes seem lacking to me. I don't have the luxury of knowing how the play was drawn up, but quite often there will be a hole at the line and a LB will be there to make a play. It's either because there is not a lead blocker or the OL isn't picking up the playside LB.

LordOfEntropy · 11-28-2007, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

or the OL isn't picking up the playside LB.

Would that be the center's failure, i.e. failure to call a blocking scheme that takes care of that LB? Or would that be the fault of the play designer and not the center's fault?

You guys are a veritable wealth of football information.

WhoDat205 · 11-28-2007, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by LordOfEntropy

Would that be the center's failure, i.e. failure to call a blocking scheme that takes care of that LB? Or would that be the fault of the play designer and not the center's fault?

You guys are a veritable wealth of football information.

No idea, the one time I tried to call out a blitz pickup they flagged me for a false start.

LordOfEntropy · 11-28-2007, 10:28 AM

Me either. But it might play into the Faine/Goodwin arguments that have been going on. On second thought, nevermind. Forget I asked.

11-27-2007, 08:24 AM	#11
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Originally Posted by OldiesDJ Is this when he was being held up by 4-Panthers without any help and STILL remained on his feet fighting for whatever he could get? The Panthers had a hard time tackling him. Many of his runs were blown dead by forward progress because Pierre just wouldn't go down. Yeah, I think so. He reminded me of Deuce a little bit the way he stayed on his feet.

11-27-2007, 05:08 PM	#12
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,019	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game I don't however like the runblocking of our O-line. We might have the best group in the leauge when it comes to passblocking but the runblocking looks slow and uninspired. A lot of times the hole is not there when it is supposed to. Stecker or Thomas will get tackled after 1 yard and people gonna say oh well. Bush gonna try to break it ouside or make a move losing 1 and then having people say he's not agood runningback int the NFL.

11-27-2007, 05:33 PM	#13
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Originally Posted by Crusader I don't however like the runblocking of our O-line. We might have the best group in the leauge when it comes to passblocking but the runblocking looks slow and uninspired. A lot of times the hole is not there when it is supposed to. Stecker or Thomas will get tackled after 1 yard and people gonna say oh well. Bush gonna try to break it ouside or make a move losing 1 and then having people say he's not agood runningback int the NFL. Now, does that say a lot. I agree. We block with the best of them in pass blocking and can't block anyone in running. THAT I can't understand. Maybe some of you guys that know so much about the offensive line play can explain it to an old linebacker.

11-27-2007, 07:03 PM	#14
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game LB? Where'd you play JoeSam? 4/3 or 3/4? ILB, MLB, or OL? I heard you mention you did some time at center too. Curious... I haven't played since jr high, what, 500 years ago? Had to get out because all the rest of the guys just started getting WAY too big. But I was a G and DT when I played - and I absolutely loved it. We hardly ever passed the ball, so I got to smash guys on both sides of the line most of the time. I loved it. Miss those days....

11-27-2007, 09:10 PM	#15
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Originally Posted by LordOfEntropy LB? Where'd you play JoeSam? 4/3 or 3/4? ILB, MLB, or OL? I heard you mention you did some time at center too. Curious... I haven't played since jr high, what, 500 years ago? Had to get out because all the rest of the guys just started getting WAY too big. But I was a G and DT when I played - and I absolutely loved it. We hardly ever passed the ball, so I got to smash guys on both sides of the line most of the time. I loved it. Miss those days.... Back in my day we only knew about the 4-3. They stuck my butt right in the middle. I was slow but my lateral movement was pretty good. That plus the fact I'd stick my nose anywhere. I wasn't afraid of anything. Cost the hell out of me too. Now I fight with 4 knee operations, 4 bad discs in my neck and 5 bad ones in my lower back. I get cortazone shots in my discs at least once a month just so I can move. But hey, if I could, I'd do it again. I love the game that much. Doctors tell me the bone spurs in my shoulders look like the alps, lol. OH well, that's why I get all this big money and retired at the ripe old age of 55. By the way the big money was a joke. As for the center part, God never,never,never again. that's on tough position to play. I told my coachs that if they made me play center any longer than the starting center was out, i'd never play another down of football. Man, that's a bad position, you can't really describe it unless you've played it, it's just tough.I salute anybody that can play that position for any length of time. Back then, I was 6' 2" and weighed 225. And as I said,slow as molassas in winter.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

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11-28-2007, 08:45 AM	#16
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Jesus Joe, 4 knee operations? 255lb?! Was that high school or college? I'm glad I got out of football when I did. The rest of you guys just got too damn big. I had a friend of mine that wanted to try out for RB at LSU, guy's name was Orlando. I used to bartend with him at Fat Harrys. Big guy. But the thing is, the manager at Fat Harrys played a little in college. He kept warning Orlando - don't do it man, don't do it, you'll regret it. I wonder if he survived - even the tryout. Still, if I could have the days back when I played, I'd be all over it. It was that much fun.
	can anyone help me id this tune? it goes thwap thwap boom tch boom tch boom tch. Qui a laissez sortir les chiens!

11-28-2007, 09:36 AM	#17
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Ahhh the glory days. My HS team had 17 players my senior year. I was the biggest lineman at 6'2", 225lbs. and never left the field. Needless to say we got our butt kicked on a regular basis. I was an OT and NG until I cracked the starting center's vertibrae on a wierd play. I had to take his spot. We ran a 4 and 5-wide spread type offense out of the shotgun. I'm still the best shotgun snapper in Mississippi 1-A HS football history Joe, you were asking why these guys can pass block so well and run block so poorly. I've noticed two problems. 1. Bush is awful about hitting the hole and using blockers. I remember one play very distinctly. They ran a draw and the OL was manned up 5 on 5 with the Panters and it was a gimme 5 yd gain, but Bush bounced it for a 2 yd gain. That play was indicative of Bush's problems at RB. PT and Stecker both do it well. They use their burst at the hole and Reggie uses it latterally to try to beat the D to the corner. 2. The blocking schemes seem lacking to me. I don't have the luxury of knowing how the play was drawn up, but quite often there will be a hole at the line and a LB will be there to make a play. It's either because there is not a lead blocker or the OL isn't picking up the playside LB.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

11-28-2007, 09:58 AM	#18
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Originally Posted by WhoDat205 or the OL isn't picking up the playside LB. Would that be the center's failure, i.e. failure to call a blocking scheme that takes care of that LB? Or would that be the fault of the play designer and not the center's fault? You guys are a veritable wealth of football information.

11-28-2007, 10:14 AM	#19
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Originally Posted by LordOfEntropy Would that be the center's failure, i.e. failure to call a blocking scheme that takes care of that LB? Or would that be the fault of the play designer and not the center's fault? You guys are a veritable wealth of football information. No idea, the one time I tried to call out a blitz pickup they flagged me for a false start.

11-28-2007, 10:28 AM	#20
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Me either. But it might play into the Faine/Goodwin arguments that have been going on. On second thought, nevermind. Forget I asked.