With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game

JOESAM2002 · 11-28-2007, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

Ahhh the glory days. My HS team had 17 players my senior year. I was the biggest lineman at 6'2", 225lbs. and never left the field. Needless to say we got our butt kicked on a regular basis. I was an OT and NG until I cracked the starting center's vertibrae on a wierd play. I had to take his spot. We ran a 4 and 5-wide spread type offense out of the shotgun. I'm still the best shotgun snapper in Mississippi 1-A HS football history

Joe, you were asking why these guys can pass block so well and run block so poorly. I've noticed two problems.

1. Bush is awful about hitting the hole and using blockers. I remember one play very distinctly. They ran a draw and the OL was manned up 5 on 5 with the Panters and it was a gimme 5 yd gain, but Bush bounced it for a 2 yd gain. That play was indicative of Bush's problems at RB. PT and Stecker both do it well. They use their burst at the hole and Reggie uses it latterally to try to beat the D to the corner.

2. The blocking schemes seem lacking to me. I don't have the luxury of knowing how the play was drawn up, but quite often there will be a hole at the line and a LB will be there to make a play. It's either because there is not a lead blocker or the OL isn't picking up the playside LB.

I understand and agree with both points. I wonder what it's going to take fro Reggie to run to the hole. At times I think even I could plug the hole by the time he decides where he's going. I'm not a big Stecker fan but he and Pierre both seem to go to the hole much sooner. If they ever get used to using Karney for a blocker they could be dangerous. Thomas ans Stecker both seem to do much better with him in the backfield with them. For some reason Payton likes to pull him from the game so much. I just don't understand that. i know as aformer MLB it's much harder to shed that kind of blocker and get to the ball carrier. But hey, i'm not the coach.

Budsdrinker · 11-28-2007, 02:19 PM

It appears to me that Reggie is sometimes too fast to the hole. That the hole actually opens up after he has past it. In My opinion I think he needs to maybe get one step deeper in the backfield to allow time for the hole to open when he hits the line. The holes open and close so fast in the NFL is just like marriage after a couple of years. But seriously it seems to me that he gets to the line so fast either he doesn't see the hole or he can't adjust to hitting it as we see it on TV or on the field. That's what I love about my seats in the endzone, I see the holes open up and also the open TE's across the middle of the field that we don't always throw to. Anyway that's my opinion.

JOESAM2002 · 11-28-2007, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

It appears to me that Reggie is sometimes too fast to the hole. That the hole actually opens up after he has past it. In My opinion I think he needs to maybe get one step deeper in the backfield to allow time for the hole to open when he hits the line. The holes open and close so fast in the NFL is just like marriage after a couple of years. But seriously it seems to me that he gets to the line so fast either he doesn't see the hole or he can't adjust to hitting it as we see it on TV or on the field. That's what I love about my seats in the endzone, I see the holes open up and also the open TE's across the middle of the field that we don't always throw to. Anyway that's my opinion.

That could very well be true. He just needs to be patient and hit the hole when it's there. All good running back show patience. Maybe that's what he needs.

hagan714 · 11-28-2007, 06:14 PM

I agree about Reggie. He is not the first back that had to learn to slow down.

The TE over the middle has been open all year. It is not glamorous but it will keep the chains moving. The LB and Safety will have to step up to stop it or we run it all day long. When they step up to stop it then you go over the top up the seem on them with a WR. That forces the other safety to hang in the middle of the field and opens up the sideline routes.
By the time you get all the WR and TE involved the secondary will be running around in circles. We just do not seem patient enough for this. You are definitely right

BoudinSandwich · 11-29-2007, 05:31 AM

Maybe they should make Reggie lineup a bit deeper in the backfield. Unfortunately, that'll probably give the defense the clue that he's running. As, if Reggie were to be part of a passing play, they'd want him as close to the line of scrimmage as possible.

I think a lot of the blocking has to do with scheme and the fact that our offense has been insanely predictable all season long. If you look at the Carolina game, we were gashing them for some pretty big yards in the running game. We had quite a few 7 and 9-yard gains. We hardly ever got anything lower than 4-yards for most of the game. The only time our running game started to slow down was when it was the end of the game and they knew we were going to run the ball to attempt to run out the clock.

I think, if Sean Payton starts to put together gameplans that aren't as predictable and don't key-off the defense to what the offense is doing as soon as they line up, you'll see the blocking get much better.

11-28-2007, 02:09 PM	#21
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Originally Posted by WhoDat205 Ahhh the glory days. My HS team had 17 players my senior year. I was the biggest lineman at 6'2", 225lbs. and never left the field. Needless to say we got our butt kicked on a regular basis. I was an OT and NG until I cracked the starting center's vertibrae on a wierd play. I had to take his spot. We ran a 4 and 5-wide spread type offense out of the shotgun. I'm still the best shotgun snapper in Mississippi 1-A HS football history Joe, you were asking why these guys can pass block so well and run block so poorly. I've noticed two problems. 1. Bush is awful about hitting the hole and using blockers. I remember one play very distinctly. They ran a draw and the OL was manned up 5 on 5 with the Panters and it was a gimme 5 yd gain, but Bush bounced it for a 2 yd gain. That play was indicative of Bush's problems at RB. PT and Stecker both do it well. They use their burst at the hole and Reggie uses it latterally to try to beat the D to the corner. 2. The blocking schemes seem lacking to me. I don't have the luxury of knowing how the play was drawn up, but quite often there will be a hole at the line and a LB will be there to make a play. It's either because there is not a lead blocker or the OL isn't picking up the playside LB. I understand and agree with both points. I wonder what it's going to take fro Reggie to run to the hole. At times I think even I could plug the hole by the time he decides where he's going. I'm not a big Stecker fan but he and Pierre both seem to go to the hole much sooner. If they ever get used to using Karney for a blocker they could be dangerous. Thomas ans Stecker both seem to do much better with him in the backfield with them. For some reason Payton likes to pull him from the game so much. I just don't understand that. i know as aformer MLB it's much harder to shed that kind of blocker and get to the ball carrier. But hey, i'm not the coach.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

11-28-2007, 02:19 PM	#22
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game It appears to me that Reggie is sometimes too fast to the hole. That the hole actually opens up after he has past it. In My opinion I think he needs to maybe get one step deeper in the backfield to allow time for the hole to open when he hits the line. The holes open and close so fast in the NFL is just like marriage after a couple of years. But seriously it seems to me that he gets to the line so fast either he doesn't see the hole or he can't adjust to hitting it as we see it on TV or on the field. That's what I love about my seats in the endzone, I see the holes open up and also the open TE's across the middle of the field that we don't always throw to. Anyway that's my opinion.

11-28-2007, 02:24 PM	#23
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Originally Posted by Budsdrinker It appears to me that Reggie is sometimes too fast to the hole. That the hole actually opens up after he has past it. In My opinion I think he needs to maybe get one step deeper in the backfield to allow time for the hole to open when he hits the line. The holes open and close so fast in the NFL is just like marriage after a couple of years. But seriously it seems to me that he gets to the line so fast either he doesn't see the hole or he can't adjust to hitting it as we see it on TV or on the field. That's what I love about my seats in the endzone, I see the holes open up and also the open TE's across the middle of the field that we don't always throw to. Anyway that's my opinion. That could very well be true. He just needs to be patient and hit the hole when it's there. All good running back show patience. Maybe that's what he needs.

11-28-2007, 06:14 PM	#24
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game I agree about Reggie. He is not the first back that had to learn to slow down. The TE over the middle has been open all year. It is not glamorous but it will keep the chains moving. The LB and Safety will have to step up to stop it or we run it all day long. When they step up to stop it then you go over the top up the seem on them with a WR. That forces the other safety to hang in the middle of the field and opens up the sideline routes. By the time you get all the WR and TE involved the secondary will be running around in circles. We just do not seem patient enough for this. You are definitely right
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

11-29-2007, 05:31 AM	#25
BoudinSandwich OldiesDJ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Scott, LA Posts: 951 Blog Entries: 12	Re: With Bush limited, backups Stecker, Thomas complement Brees, passing game Maybe they should make Reggie lineup a bit deeper in the backfield. Unfortunately, that'll probably give the defense the clue that he's running. As, if Reggie were to be part of a passing play, they'd want him as close to the line of scrimmage as possible. I think a lot of the blocking has to do with scheme and the fact that our offense has been insanely predictable all season long. If you look at the Carolina game, we were gashing them for some pretty big yards in the running game. We had quite a few 7 and 9-yard gains. We hardly ever got anything lower than 4-yards for most of the game. The only time our running game started to slow down was when it was the end of the game and they knew we were going to run the ball to attempt to run out the clock. I think, if Sean Payton starts to put together gameplans that aren't as predictable and don't key-off the defense to what the offense is doing as soon as they line up, you'll see the blocking get much better.
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