Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams

Crusader · 01-14-2008, 03:00 PM

If we can take care of our big defensive needs in the FA sur why not. Othewise get young stay young.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-14-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Seeing how we were favorite coming into this season as legitimate Super Bowl contenders... that doesn't make any sense. Prior to the season we had as good as a chance of anyone to make it to the Superbowl.

But only if our defense improved. It didn't.

(about drops...) In bold.

Drops were certainly a problem. However the guy we picked to be that complementary #2 receiver wasn't on the field.

I see the receiver issue quite simply: we've already spent a #1 pick on a receiver. Give the guy a chance to be that #2.

Then you're just fooling yourself. Just because of offense was good, it doesn't mean it can't be better.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the offense is quite good enough and that spending resources to make it better isn't going to improve the overall outlook of the team.

Let me flip the question: How much better will our offense be if we get a defense that actually gets them both the ball and the time to do something with it. One of the reasons that the Patriots were putting up 40-burgers this season is that their defense got off the field and gave the offense the ball back.

The offense and defense need to protect one another. The offense is good enough to handle its end of the load. The defense however...

As for being ticked off for drafting offense high in the draft...

Which is understandable given how atrocious our defense is...

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying.

At least we agree on something.

Should isn't good enough... when the likes of a Roy Williams is on the market and could be had for probably a 2nd rounder, you jump on that.

Nope. You spend that pick on a defensive starter. Houston's Demico Ryans was a #2 pick a year ago. The guy is a stud a middle linebacker.

The offense blew its high draft pick wad last year on a receiver. Get that guy ready to play.

Note that I think that Meachum will make an impact in the league. While some questioned the fact that the Saints picked him, most folks agreed that the guy could be a standout wideout in the league. He has Brees to throw him the ball. All he has to do is stay healthy, get some separation and catch it.

It's going to make our offense that much better and allow our defense to be on the sidelines longer. I hope Meachum can be that guy opposite Colston... but we have no idea what he's capable of. Draft picks are a crap shoot... Roy Williams is not.

We're going to have to give the guy a chance to prove himself. Payton redshirted him this year because he was hurt and the offense was clicking without him. Presumably the offense will click with him too.

As for keeping the ball longer, that wasn't really the problem. Between the defense's inability to get off the field on third down and explosive plays, when they were on the field, often they only got off after a score. There's nothing that the offense can do about that except not to turn the ball over.

Pretty much agree with all of that except that last part. Getting a solid #2 WR is a big concern from my point of view... whether it's via free agency, trade, or draft pick... it is as big as a concern as every defensive position on this team. What would happen if Colston got injured?

Colston was injured during this season. Did the passing attack stop? Brees throws the ball to whichever receiver is out there.

Personally I didn't have a problem with Patton as the #2 receiver. He did the job the vast majority of the time.

If there's a vet that's cheap in free agency like Patton was, then that's fine. But spending a precious draft pick to get yet another receiver? I don't think so.

SFIAH

papz · 01-14-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

But only if our defense improved. It didn't.

We're talking about prior to the season... no one knew our defense was going to be this bad. So still, what you said about the Saints reputation makes no sense.

Drops were certainly a problem. However the guy we picked to be that complementary #2 receiver wasn't on the field.

I see the receiver issue quite simply: we've already spent a #1 pick on a receiver. Give the guy a chance to be that #2.

Agreed. But if it doesn't pan out, then what? Do you realize the lack of depth we have on offense at both receiver and tight end?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the offense is quite good enough and that spending resources to make it better isn't going to improve the overall outlook of the team.

Unless it's great, tweaking always can be done. Let me ask you something... say we go get Roy Williams... do you think he will make our team better overall?

Let me flip the question: How much better will our offense be if we get a defense that actually gets them both the ball and the time to do something with it. One of the reasons that the Patriots were putting up 40-burgers this season is that their defense got off the field and gave the offense the ball back.

Makes perfect sense and I don't disagree with you at all.

The offense and defense need to protect one another. The offense is good enough to handle its end of the load. The defense however...

I agree our offense is far better than our defense... it still doesn't change the fact I feel we need an upgrade at WR. Who's knows... we might go and sign these impact defensive free agents leaving us to be able to do whatever we want with our draft picks. The draft isn't the only way to build our defense.

At least we agree on something.

Actually I agree on mostly everything you've said... just not to dismiss an offensive player with our draft pick.

The offense blew its high draft pick wad last year on a receiver. Get that guy ready to play.

We sure could use him as we only have Colston to lean on.

Note that I think that Meachum will make an impact in the league. While some questioned the fact that the Saints picked him, most folks agreed that the guy could be a standout wideout in the league. He has Brees to throw him the ball. All he has to do is stay healthy, get some separation and catch it.

I hope so too.

We're going to have to give the guy a chance to prove himself. Payton redshirted him this year because he was hurt and the offense was clicking without him. Presumably the offense will click with him too.

Even when he was healthy he didn't get to sniff the field.

As for keeping the ball longer, that wasn't really the problem. Between the defense's inability to get off the field on third down and explosive plays, when they were on the field, often they only got off after a score. There's nothing that the offense can do about that except not to turn the ball over.

And by getting quality talent at WR and TE, it will continue to not be a problem.

Colston was injured during this season. Did the passing attack stop? Brees throws the ball to whichever receiver is out there.

We might as well not re-sign Colston then when he's available to leave. We could use that money and go sign more defensive players. Just go sign a bunch of 2's, 3's, and 4's and let Brees operate with that all year long.

Personally I didn't have a problem with Patton as the #2 receiver. He did the job the vast majority of the time.

I thought he was fine... but Patten is no Williams.

Nope. You spend that pick on a defensive starter. Houston's Demico Ryans was a #2 pick a year ago. The guy is a stud a middle linebacker.

If there's a vet that's cheap in free agency like Patton was, then that's fine. But spending a precious draft pick to get yet another receiver? I don't think so.

SFIAH

It's only precious if it works out... which is no guarantee. Hit or miss draft pick for ProBowl WR? I don't see how it's even close. We'll just agree to disagree.

With all that said, we don't even know if Williams is on the market. But if he was, I would at least inquire about it. He's a gamebreaker... and would instantly make our offense better. But if we chose not to, we need to go sign a solid 2 while we break Meachem into the rotation.

I understand our defense is horrible and we definately need a heavy defensive draft. But that doesn't mean we don't need to address our problems on offense. I'm fine with drafting two defensive players first... but I wouldn't mind us selecting a LB, DT, CB along with a WR either.

Boogro · 01-14-2008, 07:35 PM

I am with you Papz, on one hand you can get a Ryan and on the other you can get a Lehman....No one knows how it will work out. Last year we taded out of the second round to pick up either Young or Alleman, forget which but they didn't exactly come in right away and make a difference. I like them both for the long term, but we need help right away. Williams is still young, great in my opinion. He had Kitna throwing him the ball with one of the poorest lines in the league. Imagine if he played with Brees. A young reliable, fast wide receiver would be great for our team. To be honest, I don't see why teams don't trade more with picks for proven players who are just a few years in the league.

Free agency hasn't even started yet so I think this argument is a little premature.

iceshack149 · 01-14-2008, 08:21 PM

This argument is premature, Boog. But what else are we going to argue about until the start of the 2008 season?

I'm with Saintfan on this. There is no question that Roy Williams
would be great in New Orleans but if the Saints did pick him up they'd not only lose a draft pick, they would also spend a lot of dough on the guy. If the Saints spend big money on one player, please, for the love of Bill, spend it on a defensive stud. Offense is really good right now. The defense needs big changes.

Boogro · 01-14-2008, 10:44 PM

We have plenty of cap space and you are right, we do need help on the defensive side of the ball. One thing Loomis is good at, is managing the cap. I don't even think we've ever come close to going over. I am sure it's more of Benson's tight (you know what), but he has done well managing it. Receiver is as a need, might not be the biggest, but it is very well a need. I am not satisfied with our group of receivers at all. Patten, Henderson, and Copper are all free agents. Meachem is unproven and Moore is average IMO. We've dropped a lot of balls this year, especially in clutch situations and on 3rd down. Say we got a starting corner, linebacker, defensive tackle and a back-up corner in free agency and still had enough cap space to get Williams, would you do it then? I understand where you guys are coming from with the defensive needs and I think they will be addressed accordingly, which is why I think this would be a good deal for us.

The ironic thing about this if it is true, is that the Lions spent 4 of the last 5 of their first rounders on wide receivers and now they want to get rid of their best.

D24pick · 01-15-2008, 08:31 PM

Tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't great players supposed to suck up cash? I mean he deserves it much more than Deuce and Grant right about now. Trade for him, I'd love to see us do that. I would have no problem being the Colts a few years back, at least we'd know we'd have something to look forward every game for, thats NOT like Brees forcing a pass or Bush fumbling. We'd have another weapon, more choices the better. But another thing to look at is, trading for Vilma, who wants to be traded. A conditional 3rd or 4th this year or next would be sexy for J Vil

NarwhalHunter · 01-15-2008, 11:06 PM

Last thing we need to do is burn a high pick on another receiver. The depth is fine, Brees will get the ball to anybody wearing the same color, and Roy Williams is a jackass who celebrates after every four yard gain. We should take a big pass on that one.

hagan714 · 01-16-2008, 04:50 AM

how about this. we swap #1s with Lions. 10 to 15. thats a third round value at 350 points and we throw in Stinch. Shift the line around and let our young guys play.

procto · 01-19-2008, 08:55 AM

i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good.

this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us.

i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up

i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!!

01-14-2008, 03:00 PM	#11
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,017	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams If we can take care of our big defensive needs in the FA sur why not. Othewise get young stay young.

01-14-2008, 06:19 PM	#12
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Originally Posted by papz Seeing how we were favorite coming into this season as legitimate Super Bowl contenders... that doesn't make any sense. Prior to the season we had as good as a chance of anyone to make it to the Superbowl. But only if our defense improved. It didn't. (about drops...) In bold. Drops were certainly a problem. However the guy we picked to be that complementary #2 receiver wasn't on the field. I see the receiver issue quite simply: we've already spent a #1 pick on a receiver. Give the guy a chance to be that #2. Then you're just fooling yourself. Just because of offense was good, it doesn't mean it can't be better. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the offense is quite good enough and that spending resources to make it better isn't going to improve the overall outlook of the team. Let me flip the question: How much better will our offense be if we get a defense that actually gets them both the ball and the time to do something with it. One of the reasons that the Patriots were putting up 40-burgers this season is that their defense got off the field and gave the offense the ball back. The offense and defense need to protect one another. The offense is good enough to handle its end of the load. The defense however... As for being ticked off for drafting offense high in the draft... Which is understandable given how atrocious our defense is... I don't disagree at all with what you're saying. At least we agree on something. Should isn't good enough... when the likes of a Roy Williams is on the market and could be had for probably a 2nd rounder, you jump on that. Nope. You spend that pick on a defensive starter. Houston's Demico Ryans was a #2 pick a year ago. The guy is a stud a middle linebacker. The offense blew its high draft pick wad last year on a receiver. Get that guy ready to play. Note that I think that Meachum will make an impact in the league. While some questioned the fact that the Saints picked him, most folks agreed that the guy could be a standout wideout in the league. He has Brees to throw him the ball. All he has to do is stay healthy, get some separation and catch it. It's going to make our offense that much better and allow our defense to be on the sidelines longer. I hope Meachum can be that guy opposite Colston... but we have no idea what he's capable of. Draft picks are a crap shoot... Roy Williams is not. We're going to have to give the guy a chance to prove himself. Payton redshirted him this year because he was hurt and the offense was clicking without him. Presumably the offense will click with him too. As for keeping the ball longer, that wasn't really the problem. Between the defense's inability to get off the field on third down and explosive plays, when they were on the field, often they only got off after a score. There's nothing that the offense can do about that except not to turn the ball over. Pretty much agree with all of that except that last part. Getting a solid #2 WR is a big concern from my point of view... whether it's via free agency, trade, or draft pick... it is as big as a concern as every defensive position on this team. What would happen if Colston got injured? Colston was injured during this season. Did the passing attack stop? Brees throws the ball to whichever receiver is out there. Personally I didn't have a problem with Patton as the #2 receiver. He did the job the vast majority of the time. If there's a vet that's cheap in free agency like Patton was, then that's fine. But spending a precious draft pick to get yet another receiver? I don't think so. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

01-14-2008, 07:04 PM	#13
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL But only if our defense improved. It didn't. We're talking about prior to the season... no one knew our defense was going to be this bad. So still, what you said about the Saints reputation makes no sense. Drops were certainly a problem. However the guy we picked to be that complementary #2 receiver wasn't on the field. I see the receiver issue quite simply: we've already spent a #1 pick on a receiver. Give the guy a chance to be that #2. Agreed. But if it doesn't pan out, then what? Do you realize the lack of depth we have on offense at both receiver and tight end? I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the offense is quite good enough and that spending resources to make it better isn't going to improve the overall outlook of the team. Unless it's great, tweaking always can be done. Let me ask you something... say we go get Roy Williams... do you think he will make our team better overall? Let me flip the question: How much better will our offense be if we get a defense that actually gets them both the ball and the time to do something with it. One of the reasons that the Patriots were putting up 40-burgers this season is that their defense got off the field and gave the offense the ball back. Makes perfect sense and I don't disagree with you at all. The offense and defense need to protect one another. The offense is good enough to handle its end of the load. The defense however... I agree our offense is far better than our defense... it still doesn't change the fact I feel we need an upgrade at WR. Who's knows... we might go and sign these impact defensive free agents leaving us to be able to do whatever we want with our draft picks. The draft isn't the only way to build our defense. At least we agree on something. Actually I agree on mostly everything you've said... just not to dismiss an offensive player with our draft pick. The offense blew its high draft pick wad last year on a receiver. Get that guy ready to play. We sure could use him as we only have Colston to lean on. Note that I think that Meachum will make an impact in the league. While some questioned the fact that the Saints picked him, most folks agreed that the guy could be a standout wideout in the league. He has Brees to throw him the ball. All he has to do is stay healthy, get some separation and catch it. I hope so too. We're going to have to give the guy a chance to prove himself. Payton redshirted him this year because he was hurt and the offense was clicking without him. Presumably the offense will click with him too. Even when he was healthy he didn't get to sniff the field. As for keeping the ball longer, that wasn't really the problem. Between the defense's inability to get off the field on third down and explosive plays, when they were on the field, often they only got off after a score. There's nothing that the offense can do about that except not to turn the ball over. And by getting quality talent at WR and TE, it will continue to not be a problem. Colston was injured during this season. Did the passing attack stop? Brees throws the ball to whichever receiver is out there. We might as well not re-sign Colston then when he's available to leave. We could use that money and go sign more defensive players. Just go sign a bunch of 2's, 3's, and 4's and let Brees operate with that all year long. Personally I didn't have a problem with Patton as the #2 receiver. He did the job the vast majority of the time. I thought he was fine... but Patten is no Williams. Nope. You spend that pick on a defensive starter. Houston's Demico Ryans was a #2 pick a year ago. The guy is a stud a middle linebacker. If there's a vet that's cheap in free agency like Patton was, then that's fine. But spending a precious draft pick to get yet another receiver? I don't think so. SFIAH It's only precious if it works out... which is no guarantee. Hit or miss draft pick for ProBowl WR? I don't see how it's even close. We'll just agree to disagree. With all that said, we don't even know if Williams is on the market. But if he was, I would at least inquire about it. He's a gamebreaker... and would instantly make our offense better. But if we chose not to, we need to go sign a solid 2 while we break Meachem into the rotation. I understand our defense is horrible and we definately need a heavy defensive draft. But that doesn't mean we don't need to address our problems on offense. I'm fine with drafting two defensive players first... but I wouldn't mind us selecting a LB, DT, CB along with a WR either.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

01-14-2008, 07:35 PM	#14
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams I am with you Papz, on one hand you can get a Ryan and on the other you can get a Lehman....No one knows how it will work out. Last year we taded out of the second round to pick up either Young or Alleman, forget which but they didn't exactly come in right away and make a difference. I like them both for the long term, but we need help right away. Williams is still young, great in my opinion. He had Kitna throwing him the ball with one of the poorest lines in the league. Imagine if he played with Brees. A young reliable, fast wide receiver would be great for our team. To be honest, I don't see why teams don't trade more with picks for proven players who are just a few years in the league. Free agency hasn't even started yet so I think this argument is a little premature.

01-14-2008, 08:21 PM	#15
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,238 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams This argument is premature, Boog. But what else are we going to argue about until the start of the 2008 season? I'm with Saintfan on this. There is no question that Roy Williams would be great in New Orleans but if the Saints did pick him up they'd not only lose a draft pick, they would also spend a lot of dough on the guy. If the Saints spend big money on one player, please, for the love of Bill, spend it on a defensive stud. Offense is really good right now. The defense needs big changes.

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01-14-2008, 10:44 PM	#16
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams We have plenty of cap space and you are right, we do need help on the defensive side of the ball. One thing Loomis is good at, is managing the cap. I don't even think we've ever come close to going over. I am sure it's more of Benson's tight (you know what), but he has done well managing it. Receiver is as a need, might not be the biggest, but it is very well a need. I am not satisfied with our group of receivers at all. Patten, Henderson, and Copper are all free agents. Meachem is unproven and Moore is average IMO. We've dropped a lot of balls this year, especially in clutch situations and on 3rd down. Say we got a starting corner, linebacker, defensive tackle and a back-up corner in free agency and still had enough cap space to get Williams, would you do it then? I understand where you guys are coming from with the defensive needs and I think they will be addressed accordingly, which is why I think this would be a good deal for us. The ironic thing about this if it is true, is that the Lions spent 4 of the last 5 of their first rounders on wide receivers and now they want to get rid of their best.

01-15-2008, 08:31 PM	#17
D24pick 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 578	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't great players supposed to suck up cash? I mean he deserves it much more than Deuce and Grant right about now. Trade for him, I'd love to see us do that. I would have no problem being the Colts a few years back, at least we'd know we'd have something to look forward every game for, thats NOT like Brees forcing a pass or Bush fumbling. We'd have another weapon, more choices the better. But another thing to look at is, trading for Vilma, who wants to be traded. A conditional 3rd or 4th this year or next would be sexy for J Vil
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01-15-2008, 11:06 PM	#18
NarwhalHunter 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hattiesburger with Cheese Posts: 146 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Last thing we need to do is burn a high pick on another receiver. The depth is fine, Brees will get the ball to anybody wearing the same color, and Roy Williams is a jackass who celebrates after every four yard gain. We should take a big pass on that one.

01-16-2008, 04:50 AM	#19
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams how about this. we swap #1s with Lions. 10 to 15. thats a third round value at 350 points and we throw in Stinch. Shift the line around and let our young guys play.

01-19-2008, 08:55 AM	#20
procto Registered Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: bossier city Posts: 56	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good. this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us. i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!!