DE evaluation

SaintPauly · 02-07-2008, 06:14 PM

I will STAND by my DT first round idea, because it's the first line of defense. A large, athletic DT, pulls alot of double teams, which frees up the DE spot to attack. Not to mention, a great DT, can also stop the run in this situation as well. A MLB would also provide insurance, just in case something gets through.

More pressure up front, gives more freedom front to back. The secondary will look ten times better, if the QB is running for his life every play.

hagan714 · 02-07-2008, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by andersen

Hagan?? Move Shanle into the MLB position??
You are killing me here. We need a cat in the middle. A tough fast cat.

Ok if we go with Rivers he is going to play WLB I am assuming. So who would play MLB? Thats why I have Shanle moving to MLB for a year, till a replacement is found. Either through draft or FA. The move for Shanle is to a position he has played before. Besides he knows the defense.

What other options do we have on the roster?

We may get lucky and find another rookie to start. But two rookies starting scares me.

Euphoria · 02-07-2008, 09:32 PM

You have to commit to building a championship caliber D and that starts with the front 7. Our front 7 can NOT put pressure on anyone. Sure they can stop someone who runs at them but having to go chase someone - FORGET IT. PRESURE, PRESURE, PRESURE. I can't name not one CB on the Giants team but I did see Brady get slammed to the turf over and over by there front 7. We are no where near that.

SapperSaint · 02-08-2008, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

You have to commit to building a championship caliber D and that starts with the front 7. Our front 7 can NOT put pressure on anyone. Sure they can stop someone who runs at them but having to go chase someone - FORGET IT. PRESURE, PRESURE, PRESURE. I can't name not one CB on the Giants team but I did see Brady get slammed to the turf over and over by there front 7. We are no where near that.

That was my point exactly, Euph. If the front 7 is doing there job, the CB, and SS really have nothing to worry about.

Our secondary just got hammered this year. One play after another.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-08-2008, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

In all earnestness, I have to agree with someone else that posted earlier, in the fact that this draft, has got to be defense all the way through, and I mean every freakin' pick. Forget BPA, and think BDPA. We have a first round receiver from last draft, that I don't think played one game this season. Duece will be back from injury, with something to prove, which in turn will turn up yards for Bush, once he's back to bruising up the middle. Just make sure we lock up Colston, and there you go.

I do have to say, that a solid DT, or MLB, would be my first round pick, if I were at the helm, but I am not. Oh well, I will light a candle then.

WOW! I must be channeling. Your post gets a big:

THUMBS UP!

SFIAH

hagan714 · 02-08-2008, 10:59 AM

Captain on defense is needed agreed. I am not sure who that player is right now. They are hard to find.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-08-2008, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Captain on defense is needed agreed. I am not sure who that player is right now. They are hard to find.

But that player needs to be found. Signing Brees two years ago ignited the offense. Look at the difference in the Colts defense with/without Sanders.

Another reason I think the Saints needs to sign a stud (hopefully 2) is then there's no doubt about them getting on the field. Last year the team signed a host of mid-tier defensive free agents (Simmons, KK) that had limited exposure on the field even though most would agree they were better players than the starters who played ahead of them.

You sign a top tier guy and he's going to play. And as a top teir guy hopefully he will mask some of the continuing weaknesses in the coaching and scheme that unfortunately are not going away any time soon.

I want to see a defense flooded with talent. Enough talent to overcome the structural problems that I see from Gibbs.

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-08-2008, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

You have to commit to building a championship caliber D and that starts with the front 7. Our front 7 can NOT put pressure on anyone. Sure they can stop someone who runs at them but having to go chase someone - FORGET IT. PRESURE, PRESURE, PRESURE. I can't name not one CB on the Giants team but I did see Brady get slammed to the turf over and over by there front 7. We are no where near that.

Euph,

We are definitely on the same page. I don't think the entire front 7 can be overhauled. Do you think we can build a workable pressure defense around the 3-4 players that we know we are going to have to keep in the front 7: Grant, Smith, Fujita, and most likely Thomas? If we get the stud DT (say Ellis) and sign the impact MLB (Briggs for example), could that be enough of an upgrade to at least start moving in the right direction?

I certainly hope so.

SFIAH

saintspassion · 02-08-2008, 02:59 PM

sappersaint....thanks....but anyways....i know how football works and i know how a D line changes the whole defense....but you are trying to say lets take a DT for our first pick and it will suddenly change the fact that jason david doesn't suck? and anyways...if we do...Kentwan Butler wont make half the impact your talking about for atleast 2 years...and dont say sedrick ellis because i doubt he will drop to 10 and if he does and we do get him i dont think he will run over NFL centers each down...I understand how having a good D line can get to the qb before he can throw to the receiver....but you are talking about the giants line with osi, michael, and jason tuck....3 speed rushers....and our line doesnt even compare with that and with the addition of Dorsey or Ellis it wont make some huge impact within the first 2 years and suddenly make our absolutely horrible secondary better.... believe me, Mike Jenkins or Leodis Mckelvin on the field with Bryan Young would do a much better job than Jason David and Sedrick Ellis..... think of what you are saying...so lets say... we had Ellis and he is blocked by a good center all day long, allowing the qb to have ample time in the pocket...Jason David is still 1 on 1 with someone to get his ass burnt or just by taking himself out the play because he is horrible at man coverage and doesnt know what the hell he is doing...what im trying to say is....with a top 10 CB drafted...we will actually have a chance for a CB to make a play on the ball instead of watching David trail receivers....and guys...he really is that bad....no doubt in my mind and all of you have to agree with me that a Mike Jenkins or Mckelvin will make a much bigger impact on the defense....have you ever thought about what our biggest weakness is on defense? cornerback.... so we need to address the problem and stop playing around it...once that is fixed we can worry about other weak spots...and i promise you that you have no clue just how much better our defense will be when we get 1 playmaking CB....the points allowed on us will be cut in half....just think of all the touchdowns David gives up on horrible coverage....and then cut those down to 1/2 and add a couple bats and pics in that....our team wont be one dimensional anymore...

saintspassion · 02-08-2008, 03:02 PM

ever thought about maybe if we had shutdown CBs that our line would have much more time to get to the qb....?? when a qb drops back he only needs 2 seconds to throw on Davids side because he is usually 15 feet away from the receiver....if their receivers were covered our guys like smith and grant could actually get 12+ sacks a year. instead of grants 2.5 this year....and you all know he is much better than 2.5 sacks a year...

02-07-2008, 06:14 PM	#11
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: DE evaluation I will STAND by my DT first round idea, because it's the first line of defense. A large, athletic DT, pulls alot of double teams, which frees up the DE spot to attack. Not to mention, a great DT, can also stop the run in this situation as well. A MLB would also provide insurance, just in case something gets through. More pressure up front, gives more freedom front to back. The secondary will look ten times better, if the QB is running for his life every play.

02-07-2008, 08:25 PM	#12
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: DE evaluation Originally Posted by andersen Hagan?? Move Shanle into the MLB position?? You are killing me here. We need a cat in the middle. A tough fast cat. Ok if we go with Rivers he is going to play WLB I am assuming. So who would play MLB? Thats why I have Shanle moving to MLB for a year, till a replacement is found. Either through draft or FA. The move for Shanle is to a position he has played before. Besides he knows the defense. What other options do we have on the roster? We may get lucky and find another rookie to start. But two rookies starting scares me.

02-07-2008, 09:32 PM	#13
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: DE evaluation You have to commit to building a championship caliber D and that starts with the front 7. Our front 7 can NOT put pressure on anyone. Sure they can stop someone who runs at them but having to go chase someone - FORGET IT. PRESURE, PRESURE, PRESURE. I can't name not one CB on the Giants team but I did see Brady get slammed to the turf over and over by there front 7. We are no where near that.

02-08-2008, 08:07 AM	#14
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Re: DE evaluation Originally Posted by Euphoria You have to commit to building a championship caliber D and that starts with the front 7. Our front 7 can NOT put pressure on anyone. Sure they can stop someone who runs at them but having to go chase someone - FORGET IT. PRESURE, PRESURE, PRESURE. I can't name not one CB on the Giants team but I did see Brady get slammed to the turf over and over by there front 7. We are no where near that. That was my point exactly, Euph. If the front 7 is doing there job, the CB, and SS really have nothing to worry about. Our secondary just got hammered this year. One play after another.

02-08-2008, 10:38 AM	#15
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: DE evaluation Originally Posted by saintpaul25 In all earnestness, I have to agree with someone else that posted earlier, in the fact that this draft, has got to be defense all the way through, and I mean every freakin' pick. Forget BPA, and think BDPA. We have a first round receiver from last draft, that I don't think played one game this season. Duece will be back from injury, with something to prove, which in turn will turn up yards for Bush, once he's back to bruising up the middle. Just make sure we lock up Colston, and there you go. I do have to say, that a solid DT, or MLB, would be my first round pick, if I were at the helm, but I am not. Oh well, I will light a candle then. WOW! I must be channeling. Your post gets a big: THUMBS UP! SFIAH

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02-08-2008, 10:59 AM	#16
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: DE evaluation Captain on defense is needed agreed. I am not sure who that player is right now. They are hard to find.

02-08-2008, 11:23 AM	#17
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: DE evaluation Originally Posted by hagan714 Captain on defense is needed agreed. I am not sure who that player is right now. They are hard to find. But that player needs to be found. Signing Brees two years ago ignited the offense. Look at the difference in the Colts defense with/without Sanders. Another reason I think the Saints needs to sign a stud (hopefully 2) is then there's no doubt about them getting on the field. Last year the team signed a host of mid-tier defensive free agents (Simmons, KK) that had limited exposure on the field even though most would agree they were better players than the starters who played ahead of them. You sign a top tier guy and he's going to play. And as a top teir guy hopefully he will mask some of the continuing weaknesses in the coaching and scheme that unfortunately are not going away any time soon. I want to see a defense flooded with talent. Enough talent to overcome the structural problems that I see from Gibbs. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-08-2008, 11:28 AM	#18
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: DE evaluation Originally Posted by Euphoria You have to commit to building a championship caliber D and that starts with the front 7. Our front 7 can NOT put pressure on anyone. Sure they can stop someone who runs at them but having to go chase someone - FORGET IT. PRESURE, PRESURE, PRESURE. I can't name not one CB on the Giants team but I did see Brady get slammed to the turf over and over by there front 7. We are no where near that. Euph, We are definitely on the same page. I don't think the entire front 7 can be overhauled. Do you think we can build a workable pressure defense around the 3-4 players that we know we are going to have to keep in the front 7: Grant, Smith, Fujita, and most likely Thomas? If we get the stud DT (say Ellis) and sign the impact MLB (Briggs for example), could that be enough of an upgrade to at least start moving in the right direction? I certainly hope so. SFIAH

02-08-2008, 02:59 PM	#19
saintspassion Rookie Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 20	Re: DE evaluation sappersaint....thanks....but anyways....i know how football works and i know how a D line changes the whole defense....but you are trying to say lets take a DT for our first pick and it will suddenly change the fact that jason david doesn't suck? and anyways...if we do...Kentwan Butler wont make half the impact your talking about for atleast 2 years...and dont say sedrick ellis because i doubt he will drop to 10 and if he does and we do get him i dont think he will run over NFL centers each down...I understand how having a good D line can get to the qb before he can throw to the receiver....but you are talking about the giants line with osi, michael, and jason tuck....3 speed rushers....and our line doesnt even compare with that and with the addition of Dorsey or Ellis it wont make some huge impact within the first 2 years and suddenly make our absolutely horrible secondary better.... believe me, Mike Jenkins or Leodis Mckelvin on the field with Bryan Young would do a much better job than Jason David and Sedrick Ellis..... think of what you are saying...so lets say... we had Ellis and he is blocked by a good center all day long, allowing the qb to have ample time in the pocket...Jason David is still 1 on 1 with someone to get his ass burnt or just by taking himself out the play because he is horrible at man coverage and doesnt know what the hell he is doing...what im trying to say is....with a top 10 CB drafted...we will actually have a chance for a CB to make a play on the ball instead of watching David trail receivers....and guys...he really is that bad....no doubt in my mind and all of you have to agree with me that a Mike Jenkins or Mckelvin will make a much bigger impact on the defense....have you ever thought about what our biggest weakness is on defense? cornerback.... so we need to address the problem and stop playing around it...once that is fixed we can worry about other weak spots...and i promise you that you have no clue just how much better our defense will be when we get 1 playmaking CB....the points allowed on us will be cut in half....just think of all the touchdowns David gives up on horrible coverage....and then cut those down to 1/2 and add a couple bats and pics in that....our team wont be one dimensional anymore...
saintspassion Rookie Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 20

02-08-2008, 03:02 PM	#20
saintspassion Rookie Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 20	Re: DE evaluation ever thought about maybe if we had shutdown CBs that our line would have much more time to get to the qb....?? when a qb drops back he only needs 2 seconds to throw on Davids side because he is usually 15 feet away from the receiver....if their receivers were covered our guys like smith and grant could actually get 12+ sacks a year. instead of grants 2.5 this year....and you all know he is much better than 2.5 sacks a year...
saintspassion Rookie Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 20