Is the Saints' system wrong??

saintsfan1976 · 02-26-2008, 07:16 AM

I keep reading about "system" guys and they all seem to come from the successful teams in the NFL. My question is this:

If players from "systems" (Indy, Tampa, NE, etc...) are so successful in their team's system and almost immediately become mediocre when they go to other teams, is the Saints' "system" the wrong "system" for success? Should our defensive system change (from man to man) in order for the defense to be more successful??

SapperSaint · 02-26-2008, 09:58 AM

Bells, whistles, and a cartoon light bulb popped up with that question '76!

We (fans) have dogged these "system" guys. Well, you're right. These guys came from SB winning teams to us, and we can't do anything with them. Just like we don't know what to do with Reggie.

Is it the players????? Or the System?????

SapperSaint · 02-26-2008, 10:23 AM

This one should give you a chuckle, missile.

Maybe Coach Orgeron will help.

papz · 02-26-2008, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

I keep reading about "system" guys and they all seem to come from the successful teams in the NFL. My question is this:

If players from "systems" (Indy, Tampa, NE, etc...) are so successful in their team's system and almost immediately become mediocre when they go to other teams, is the Saints' "system" the wrong "system" for success? Should our defensive system change (from man to man) in order for the defense to be more successful??

Could our system work with better players? Maybe... but it can't be determined until we put better talent on the field. I wouldn't strictly say it's the wrong system to run because it worked well in Dallas when Gibbs was coaching there. If we don't intend to add quality talent defensively, I do believe we need to adjust our system to fit the players we have which we haven't done the past year.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-26-2008, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Could our system work with better players? Maybe... but it can't be determined until we put better talent on the field. I wouldn't strictly say it's the wrong system to run because it worked well in Dallas when Gibbs was coaching there. If we don't intend to add quality talent defensively, I do believe we need to adjust our system to fit the players we have which we haven't done the past year.

YOU SIR ARE CORRECT!!!

But Gibbs isn't going to change his system. So we have to get better players in play in it.

That's what I've been saying the last two months.

Gibbs unwillingness to neither find players that fit his system or adjust his system to fit is players is the reason that I think he needs to go.

SFIAH

WVSaint · 02-26-2008, 02:26 PM

I don't think our system is flawed but it's not perfect either.

There was an article the other day on espn.com (I think) where Bill Polian was discussing how the draft is flawed. The gist of it is that the draft is set up to help the worst teams, but due to the contracts that rookies are now getting it could hurt teams that pick early in the draft. If you pick and miss, you're stuck paying a young player a huge contract who isn't performing. Polian was saying that teams that pick toward the end of the draft aren't hurt as bad due to the fact that they don't have to take on those huge contracts, at least not until the player is proven. After reading the article I thought he made a really good point....and lets face in the last decade to 15 years we've missed with that pick WAY more than we've hit. I think it's time to look at who is evaluating these players, continued poor draft decisions might be whats holding us back. Just a thought.

Cancer Beater · 02-26-2008, 02:46 PM

Our consistently awful results on the field points to our system being severly flawed.

WhoDat205 · 02-26-2008, 03:04 PM

Schemes all have their strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I like the m2m schemes as long as you have the players. The m2m is predicated on having athletic CBs that can throw off QB-WR timing at the line and play catch-up with the reciver. You also need a quick D-Line that can get up field and pressure the QB into throwing the ball away or making a poor decision. If you do get beat, you're going to get beat fast.

If you look at the cover 2, it keeps everything in front of the seconday and uses small, fast LBs to keep up with TE's and backs. That's why quick hitters work pretty well against these D's. It's the bend-don't-break philosophy.

The 3-4 leans heavily on the LBs (especially OLB) to provide the pass rush. The DE's almost play like DTs in that they need to take up blockers and free up the LBs to make plays.

That's why I would entertain the idea of moving Grant to DT. He's not coming with the speed we need on the edge. The back-ups actually played pretty well last season. Maybe there's a DE in the draft, too.

saintsfan1976 · 02-26-2008, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

Schemes all have their strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I like the m2m schemes as long as you have the players. The m2m is predicated on having athletic CBs that can throw off QB-WR timing at the line and play catch-up with the reciver. You also need a quick D-Line that can get up field and pressure the QB into throwing the ball away or making a poor decision. If you do get beat, you're going to get beat fast.

If you look at the cover 2, it keeps everything in front of the seconday and uses small, fast LBs to keep up with TE's and backs. That's why quick hitters work pretty well against these D's. It's the bend-don't-break philosophy.

The 3-4 leans heavily on the LBs (especially OLB) to provide the pass rush. The DE's almost play like DTs in that they need to take up blockers and free up the LBs to make plays.

That's why I would entertain the idea of moving Grant to DT. He's not coming with the speed we need on the edge. The back-ups actually played pretty well last season. Maybe there's a DE in the draft, too.

Then why aren't we signing these types of players??

Originally Posted by papz

Could our system work with better players? Maybe... but it can't be determined until we put better talent on the field. I wouldn't strictly say it's the wrong system to run because it worked well in Dallas when Gibbs was coaching there. If we don't intend to add quality talent defensively, I do believe we need to adjust our system to fit the players we have which we haven't done the past year.

Papz, I don't think it's talent that we've been lacking it's the right talent for our system that we've missed.

papz · 02-26-2008, 05:20 PM

I agree... we need the right talent for our system.

02-26-2008, 07:16 AM	#1
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Is the Saints' system wrong?? I keep reading about "system" guys and they all seem to come from the successful teams in the NFL. My question is this: If players from "systems" (Indy, Tampa, NE, etc...) are so successful in their team's system and almost immediately become mediocre when they go to other teams, is the Saints' "system" the wrong "system" for success? Should our defensive system change (from man to man) in order for the defense to be more successful??

02-26-2008, 09:58 AM	#2
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? Bells, whistles, and a cartoon light bulb popped up with that question '76! We (fans) have dogged these "system" guys. Well, you're right. These guys came from SB winning teams to us, and we can't do anything with them. Just like we don't know what to do with Reggie. Is it the players????? Or the System?????

02-26-2008, 10:23 AM	#3
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? This one should give you a chuckle, missile. Maybe Coach Orgeron will help.

02-26-2008, 10:27 AM	#4
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 I keep reading about "system" guys and they all seem to come from the successful teams in the NFL. My question is this: If players from "systems" (Indy, Tampa, NE, etc...) are so successful in their team's system and almost immediately become mediocre when they go to other teams, is the Saints' "system" the wrong "system" for success? Should our defensive system change (from man to man) in order for the defense to be more successful?? Could our system work with better players? Maybe... but it can't be determined until we put better talent on the field. I wouldn't strictly say it's the wrong system to run because it worked well in Dallas when Gibbs was coaching there. If we don't intend to add quality talent defensively, I do believe we need to adjust our system to fit the players we have which we haven't done the past year.

02-26-2008, 11:11 AM	#5
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,774	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? Originally Posted by papz Could our system work with better players? Maybe... but it can't be determined until we put better talent on the field. I wouldn't strictly say it's the wrong system to run because it worked well in Dallas when Gibbs was coaching there. If we don't intend to add quality talent defensively, I do believe we need to adjust our system to fit the players we have which we haven't done the past year. YOU SIR ARE CORRECT!!! But Gibbs isn't going to change his system. So we have to get better players in play in it. That's what I've been saying the last two months. Gibbs unwillingness to neither find players that fit his system or adjust his system to fit is players is the reason that I think he needs to go. SFIAH

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02-26-2008, 02:26 PM	#6
WVSaint 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Virginia Posts: 807	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? I don't think our system is flawed but it's not perfect either. There was an article the other day on espn.com (I think) where Bill Polian was discussing how the draft is flawed. The gist of it is that the draft is set up to help the worst teams, but due to the contracts that rookies are now getting it could hurt teams that pick early in the draft. If you pick and miss, you're stuck paying a young player a huge contract who isn't performing. Polian was saying that teams that pick toward the end of the draft aren't hurt as bad due to the fact that they don't have to take on those huge contracts, at least not until the player is proven. After reading the article I thought he made a really good point....and lets face in the last decade to 15 years we've missed with that pick WAY more than we've hit. I think it's time to look at who is evaluating these players, continued poor draft decisions might be whats holding us back. Just a thought.

02-26-2008, 02:46 PM	#7
Cancer Beater 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 154	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? Our consistently awful results on the field points to our system being severly flawed.
Cancer Beater 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 154

02-26-2008, 03:04 PM	#8
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? Schemes all have their strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I like the m2m schemes as long as you have the players. The m2m is predicated on having athletic CBs that can throw off QB-WR timing at the line and play catch-up with the reciver. You also need a quick D-Line that can get up field and pressure the QB into throwing the ball away or making a poor decision. If you do get beat, you're going to get beat fast. If you look at the cover 2, it keeps everything in front of the seconday and uses small, fast LBs to keep up with TE's and backs. That's why quick hitters work pretty well against these D's. It's the bend-don't-break philosophy. The 3-4 leans heavily on the LBs (especially OLB) to provide the pass rush. The DE's almost play like DTs in that they need to take up blockers and free up the LBs to make plays. That's why I would entertain the idea of moving Grant to DT. He's not coming with the speed we need on the edge. The back-ups actually played pretty well last season. Maybe there's a DE in the draft, too.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

02-26-2008, 05:13 PM	#9
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? Originally Posted by WhoDat205 Schemes all have their strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I like the m2m schemes as long as you have the players. The m2m is predicated on having athletic CBs that can throw off QB-WR timing at the line and play catch-up with the reciver. You also need a quick D-Line that can get up field and pressure the QB into throwing the ball away or making a poor decision. If you do get beat, you're going to get beat fast. If you look at the cover 2, it keeps everything in front of the seconday and uses small, fast LBs to keep up with TE's and backs. That's why quick hitters work pretty well against these D's. It's the bend-don't-break philosophy. The 3-4 leans heavily on the LBs (especially OLB) to provide the pass rush. The DE's almost play like DTs in that they need to take up blockers and free up the LBs to make plays. That's why I would entertain the idea of moving Grant to DT. He's not coming with the speed we need on the edge. The back-ups actually played pretty well last season. Maybe there's a DE in the draft, too. Then why aren't we signing these types of players?? Originally Posted by papz Could our system work with better players? Maybe... but it can't be determined until we put better talent on the field. I wouldn't strictly say it's the wrong system to run because it worked well in Dallas when Gibbs was coaching there. If we don't intend to add quality talent defensively, I do believe we need to adjust our system to fit the players we have which we haven't done the past year. Papz, I don't think it's talent that we've been lacking it's the right talent for our system that we've missed.

02-26-2008, 05:20 PM	#10
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Is the Saints' system wrong?? I agree... we need the right talent for our system.