Time is needed to Build a D

foreverfan · 03-27-2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by nutria

Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE!

I would much rather go down in a blaze of glory than like a burnt cinder.

Burnt Cinder? Isn't that what we did last year? LOL

BRSaintsFan · 03-27-2008, 04:32 PM

Whatever we want to call the defensive philosphy, it was not pretty last year. At first hearing the idea of Mendenhall at 10, I wanted nothing of the sort but the more I let the idea sit and chew on it a little bit, it could turn out to be a solid move. Maybe its just me, but I think that the CB position is deep this year and there is no truly #1 CB that is head and shoulders above the rest. Also, there are rumors that Carolina is hot on the tail of Mendenhall and I would prefer to see him running over their defenders than running behind their blockers.

Euphoria · 03-27-2008, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

This was pointed out to me by a good friend.

Dear Euph... Just for the record, the Saints play a DON'T BEND OR BREAK DEFENSE. Think about the Saints defense the last two years and you will see what I mean.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, and your point is well taken. We will be better in 2008.

Back on thread topic.

My brothers, wife, sisters, cousin's, aunt, best friend says its a bend don't break.

I watched every game the past 4 years and its bend don't break. You give your opponets just enough and without letting them score. What it appears to be doesn't mean its what its ment to be.

Letting the opponet score isn't Defense at all is it? Why would we pay millions of dollars for some goober to stand on the field and play D at all? just walk off the field so no one is there to risk injury then. We'd get the ball back in 10 seconds or less that way.

thesaintsfan · 03-27-2008, 05:15 PM

To suggest that our defense is built to stop the O quickly or let them score quickly in order to get the ball back to our O is absurd. So you're saying that our coaching staff is happy every time we get beat for a 50 yard TD pass? I guess that explains why it happens so much!

Tobias-Reiper · 03-27-2008, 06:03 PM

.. and here I thought the defense the Saints played was the "No Defense Defense"..

Euphoria · 03-27-2008, 07:50 PM

To quote Payton Manning "Your Defense is Offensive". LOL.

Euphoria · 03-27-2008, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

.. and here I thought the defense the Saints played was the "No Defense Defense"..

Dude I think you just gave our Defense there name we have been looking for...

"THE NO DEFENSE DEFENSE", got a ring to it... I like it. So who is going to make it into a poster and have it at a game? lol.

hagan714 · 03-27-2008, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Well I would disagree... It all started with Mora bringing in his boys from the USFL and having a scheme that worked with those guys. It was Mora and his staff that did that. Bumm wasn't going in the right direction. The difference now is we don't have natrual pass rushers nor the coaches with the balls to call a blitz at will.

Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE!

A lot of things have to come into play and all have to be on the same page at the right time or it all falls apart.

OK read this part again

1981: Bum Phillips:
LB Rickey Jackson PIttsburgh 6-2, 243, Round 2 / # 51
DE/DT Frank Warren Auburn 6-4, 285, Rond 3 / # 57
CB Johnnie Poe Missouri, 6-1, 190, Round: 6 / # 144
NT Jim Wilks San Diego St. 6-5, 266, San Diego State Round: 12 / # 305

1982 Bum Phillips:
LDE Bruce Clark Penn State 6-3, 273, via CFL Toronto Argonauts, WLAF Barcelona Dragons. Drafted by GB round 1 / #4, they get our #12 pick in the 1984 draft for him.
NT Tony Elliott North Texas 6-2, 282, Round: 5 / # 114
K Morten Andersen Michigan State Round 4 / # 86

1983 Bum Phillips:
A wash TE John Tice and OC Steve Korte was it.

1984: Bum Phillips:
RDE James Geathers Wichita State 6-7, 290, Round 2 / # 42 (still one of my all time favorites)
P Brian Hansen Souix Falls Round 9 / # 237
RILB Vaughn Johnson North Carolina State 6-3, 235, round 1 / # 15 supplemental 1984
( had to wait a couple of years but he did come home.)

1985 Bum Phillips / Wade Phillips
SS Brett Maxie texas Southern 6-2, 194 UDFA
LB Jack Del Rio USC 6-4, 246, Round 3 / # 68 ( personality clashes LOL)

You are telling me he did not have a hand in building the talent? LOL give me a break. Bum laid the foundation. The only thing More did was bring in Sam Mills from the USFL. He did draft Swilling.

Do not give him the credit! DC Capers deserved the credit. It was Capers who got Mills to come to NO. Mora should have been showed the door in 1993 not Capers. Mora could not get an offense on the field to compliment the defense he had. He added very few pieces to the team that really stuck around. Bum definitely out drafted.

Like I said the down fall was Mora refusal to admit Carl Smith was not the OC to get the job done. To get his point across he fired Capers. Who as we all know went into Carolina and put together a great team in a short time.

Proof comes after 1992 and how fast they fell apart. Just like the team Ditka left was strong and we watched it fall apart. Now we are trying to rebuild it.

If we can match the 4 draft years of Bum we are going to be set for the next 10 years.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-28-2008, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by thesaintsfan

To suggest that our defense is built to stop the O quickly or let them score quickly in order to get the ball back to our O is absurd. So you're saying that our coaching staff is happy every time we get beat for a 50 yard TD pass? I guess that explains why it happens so much!

There have actually been other assessments of a "Break don't bend" defense:

Saints 2007 Preview: The Real Miracle Season - FanHouse - AOL Sports Blog

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Dominant Dozen: Week 15 2006

SFIAH

cajunasian61 · 03-28-2008, 09:22 AM

The good news is even Bum had one bad draft, so hopefully Payton and staff can rebound from last year's debacle, and come back with a draft closer to year one. I know that you can't fully judge the success of a draft until about three years later, but I have a feeling most of the year two draftees will never pan out into starters, whereas in year one we have two players who will be studs at their respective positions for a long time in Evans and Colston, a player who has the potential to be game changing in Bush (he just needs to prove to me that hw can do this on a consistent basis. As of right now, due to the position he was drafted in he is a bust. I like Reggie but if he doesn't improve he will never warrant the #2 overall and the endless hype), a great backup OT in Strief, and we'll be able to see how good Harper can be this year. He will be two years removed from the ACL injury, so no more excuses. At least he played his rookie year.

03-27-2008, 02:38 PM	#11
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Time is needed to Build a D Originally Posted by nutria Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE! I would much rather go down in a blaze of glory than like a burnt cinder. Burnt Cinder? Isn't that what we did last year? LOL

03-27-2008, 04:45 PM	#13
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Time is needed to Build a D Originally Posted by foreverfan This was pointed out to me by a good friend. Dear Euph... Just for the record, the Saints play a DON'T BEND OR BREAK DEFENSE. Think about the Saints defense the last two years and you will see what I mean. I'm not saying it's a good thing, and your point is well taken. We will be better in 2008. Back on thread topic. My brothers, wife, sisters, cousin's, aunt, best friend says its a bend don't break. I watched every game the past 4 years and its bend don't break. You give your opponets just enough and without letting them score. What it appears to be doesn't mean its what its ment to be. Letting the opponet score isn't Defense at all is it? Why would we pay millions of dollars for some goober to stand on the field and play D at all? just walk off the field so no one is there to risk injury then. We'd get the ball back in 10 seconds or less that way.
	E U P H O R I A

03-27-2008, 05:15 PM	#14
thesaintsfan The Real Deal Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 174	Re: Time is needed to Build a D To suggest that our defense is built to stop the O quickly or let them score quickly in order to get the ball back to our O is absurd. So you're saying that our coaching staff is happy every time we get beat for a 50 yard TD pass? I guess that explains why it happens so much!

03-27-2008, 06:03 PM	#15
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Time is needed to Build a D .. and here I thought the defense the Saints played was the "No Defense Defense"..

03-27-2008, 07:50 PM	#16
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Time is needed to Build a D To quote Payton Manning "Your Defense is Offensive". LOL.

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03-27-2008, 04:32 PM	#12
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Time is needed to Build a D Whatever we want to call the defensive philosphy, it was not pretty last year. At first hearing the idea of Mendenhall at 10, I wanted nothing of the sort but the more I let the idea sit and chew on it a little bit, it could turn out to be a solid move. Maybe its just me, but I think that the CB position is deep this year and there is no truly #1 CB that is head and shoulders above the rest. Also, there are rumors that Carolina is hot on the tail of Mendenhall and I would prefer to see him running over their defenders than running behind their blockers.

03-27-2008, 07:52 PM	#17
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Time is needed to Build a D Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper .. and here I thought the defense the Saints played was the "No Defense Defense".. Dude I think you just gave our Defense there name we have been looking for... "THE NO DEFENSE DEFENSE", got a ring to it... I like it. So who is going to make it into a poster and have it at a game? lol.

03-27-2008, 10:19 PM	#18
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Time is needed to Build a D Originally Posted by Euphoria Well I would disagree... It all started with Mora bringing in his boys from the USFL and having a scheme that worked with those guys. It was Mora and his staff that did that. Bumm wasn't going in the right direction. The difference now is we don't have natrual pass rushers nor the coaches with the balls to call a blitz at will. Sit back... wait... bend-don't break. PUKE! A lot of things have to come into play and all have to be on the same page at the right time or it all falls apart. OK read this part again 1981: Bum Phillips: LB Rickey Jackson PIttsburgh 6-2, 243, Round 2 / # 51 DE/DT Frank Warren Auburn 6-4, 285, Rond 3 / # 57 CB Johnnie Poe Missouri, 6-1, 190, Round: 6 / # 144 NT Jim Wilks San Diego St. 6-5, 266, San Diego State Round: 12 / # 305 1982 Bum Phillips: LDE Bruce Clark Penn State 6-3, 273, via CFL Toronto Argonauts, WLAF Barcelona Dragons. Drafted by GB round 1 / #4, they get our #12 pick in the 1984 draft for him. NT Tony Elliott North Texas 6-2, 282, Round: 5 / # 114 K Morten Andersen Michigan State Round 4 / # 86 1983 Bum Phillips: A wash TE John Tice and OC Steve Korte was it. 1984: Bum Phillips: RDE James Geathers Wichita State 6-7, 290, Round 2 / # 42 (still one of my all time favorites) P Brian Hansen Souix Falls Round 9 / # 237 RILB Vaughn Johnson North Carolina State 6-3, 235, round 1 / # 15 supplemental 1984 ( had to wait a couple of years but he did come home.) 1985 Bum Phillips / Wade Phillips SS Brett Maxie texas Southern 6-2, 194 UDFA LB Jack Del Rio USC 6-4, 246, Round 3 / # 68 ( personality clashes LOL) You are telling me he did not have a hand in building the talent? LOL give me a break. Bum laid the foundation. The only thing More did was bring in Sam Mills from the USFL. He did draft Swilling. Do not give him the credit! DC Capers deserved the credit. It was Capers who got Mills to come to NO. Mora should have been showed the door in 1993 not Capers. Mora could not get an offense on the field to compliment the defense he had. He added very few pieces to the team that really stuck around. Bum definitely out drafted. Like I said the down fall was Mora refusal to admit Carl Smith was not the OC to get the job done. To get his point across he fired Capers. Who as we all know went into Carolina and put together a great team in a short time. Proof comes after 1992 and how fast they fell apart. Just like the team Ditka left was strong and we watched it fall apart. Now we are trying to rebuild it. If we can match the 4 draft years of Bum we are going to be set for the next 10 years.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

03-28-2008, 07:52 AM	#19
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Time is needed to Build a D Originally Posted by thesaintsfan To suggest that our defense is built to stop the O quickly or let them score quickly in order to get the ball back to our O is absurd. So you're saying that our coaching staff is happy every time we get beat for a 50 yard TD pass? I guess that explains why it happens so much! There have actually been other assessments of a "Break don't bend" defense: Saints 2007 Preview: The Real Miracle Season - FanHouse - AOL Sports Blog Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Dominant Dozen: Week 15 2006 SFIAH

03-28-2008, 09:22 AM	#20
cajunasian61 Registered Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Evansville, IN (Where is that?) Posts: 64	Re: Time is needed to Build a D The good news is even Bum had one bad draft, so hopefully Payton and staff can rebound from last year's debacle, and come back with a draft closer to year one. I know that you can't fully judge the success of a draft until about three years later, but I have a feeling most of the year two draftees will never pan out into starters, whereas in year one we have two players who will be studs at their respective positions for a long time in Evans and Colston, a player who has the potential to be game changing in Bush (he just needs to prove to me that hw can do this on a consistent basis. As of right now, due to the position he was drafted in he is a bust. I like Reggie but if he doesn't improve he will never warrant the #2 overall and the endless hype), a great backup OT in Strief, and we'll be able to see how good Harper can be this year. He will be two years removed from the ACL injury, so no more excuses. At least he played his rookie year.