Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

ScottyRo · 04-17-2008, 01:36 PM

I think you are missing the point that this about giving up so much for one player. I said I wasn't impressed with Dorsey last year based on the hype and what I got back were excuses: He was double-teamed! He was injured!

The bottom line is that many of you are jumping on this moving up to 2nd bandwagon to get him and claiming he's going to go to multiple pro bowls when there's a decent chance that he could turn out to be just an average NFL player at his position.

The year Reggie was drafted many experts said he was the closest thing ever to a sure thing yet he has not made a pro bowl yet. I'm going to guess that many of you are starting to have doubts if he ever will. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, but what if we had given up several picks to get him? I'm not knocking Reggie as I am glad we have him, but so far he's been good, not great.

So, with Dorsey we have to pay a similar price in salary plus trade picks to get him. Is the risk of him being good, not great worth all of that?

Euphoria · 04-17-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

I think you are missing the point that this about giving up so much for one player. I said I wasn't impressed with Dorsey last year based on the hype and what I got back were excuses: He was double-teamed! He was injured!

The bottom line is that many of you are jumping on this moving up to 2nd bandwagon to get him and claiming he's going to go to multiple pro bowls when there's a decent chance that he could turn out to be just an average NFL player at his position.

The year Reggie was drafted many experts said he was the closest thing ever to a sure thing yet he has not made a pro bowl yet. I'm going to guess that many of you are starting to have doubts if he ever will. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, but what if we had given up several picks to get him? I'm not knocking Reggie as I am glad we have him, but so far he's been good, not great.

So, with Dorsey we have to pay a similar price in salary plus trade picks to get him. Is the risk of him being good, not great worth all of that?

I am sorry but there are no excuses you are right. Dorsey dominated the SEC and the NCAA for more than one year and won a national championship. He has made excellant decisions on and off the field, I'll say again returning to win a National Championship - HE LIVED UP TO THE HYPE!!!

You are drafting a guy based on his performance in college and what he 'could' do for you in the NFL. Is he worth giving up a second round pick... HELL F'IN YES!

This guy looked intimidating in yellow and purple imagine what he looks like running at you in black??? LOL

ScottyRo · 04-17-2008, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

This guy looked intimidating in yellow and purple imagine what he looks like running at you in black??? LOL

LOL

That's running at me though. I'm just 5'9, 205. Of course, I'D be intimidated.

zachsaints52 · 04-17-2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo

Maybe the G-Men would take Deuce and a future pick (s) for Shockey? Then we'd have McFadden and Shockey on the offense...rather scary if you ask me. We basically need space eaters at DT with our LBs.

Why would they take Deuce for when they have Jacobs and Bradshaw? Unless the future is a 2nd or 1st so they are basically taking his contract? And Rubin in the third would be our space eater for Vilma.

Euphoria · 04-17-2008, 02:43 PM

space eaters???

We have that now. Get a DT that has to be double teamed and your LB's will be even better weapons. If they don't double Dorsey they will pay a price with just him alone.

Our DT's are good at sitting back and letting the ball carrier come to them to make the tackle.

stockman311 · 04-17-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

I think you are missing the point that this about giving up so much for one player. I said I wasn't impressed with Dorsey last year based on the hype and what I got back were excuses: He was double-teamed! He was injured!

The bottom line is that many of you are jumping on this moving up to 2nd bandwagon to get him and claiming he's going to go to multiple pro bowls when there's a decent chance that he could turn out to be just an average NFL player at his position.

The year Reggie was drafted many experts said he was the closest thing ever to a sure thing yet he has not made a pro bowl yet. I'm going to guess that many of you are starting to have doubts if he ever will. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, but what if we had given up several picks to get him? I'm not knocking Reggie as I am glad we have him, but so far he's been good, not great.

So, with Dorsey we have to pay a similar price in salary plus trade picks to get him. Is the risk of him being good, not great worth all of that?

Dude, no offense but you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. I've watched every snap Dorsey has ever played at LSU and when healthy he was one of the most dominant DT in college football history. A BS chop block against Auburn and then him playing on basically one leg from that point on doesn't take away from what he did in four years of college. When healthy, he CONSISTANTLY beats double teams and makes tackles in opposing teams backfields. He is the best player in this draft and it's not even close. IF we can get him for this years 1st and 2nd I think we have to do it. Saying this, I think this is more smoke than fire and I think it is far more likely we trade up to get Ellis.

Papa Voodoo · 04-17-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by zachsaints52

Why would they take Deuce for when they have Jacobs and Bradshaw? Unless the future is a 2nd or 1st so they are basically taking his contract? And Rubin in the third would be our space eater for Vilma.

It seems Shockey will be leaving this year or the next. Deuce and Jacobs suit the Giants' running game pretty well with Bradshaw as a change-of-pace player. Deuce will get more mileage running with Jacobs, he catches a lot better than Jacobs, and the Giants could pound the ball in December/January all they wanted.

ScottyRo · 04-17-2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by stockman311

Dude, no offense but you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. I've watched every snap Dorsey has ever played at LSU and when healthy he was one of the most dominant DT in college football history. A BS chop block against Auburn and then him playing on basically one leg from that point on doesn't take away from what he did in four years of college. When healthy, he CONSISTANTLY beats double teams and makes tackles in opposing teams backfields. He is the best player in this draft and it's not even close. IF we can get him for this years 1st and 2nd I think we have to do it. Saying this, I think this is more smoke than fire and I think it is far more likely we trade up to get Ellis.

First, you couldn't mean anything but offense by saying I don't have a clue so why cower behind the "no offense" phrase? Be a man.

Second, it's funny. I just got through reading ESPN's 50 biggest draft busts articles (it includes Sully, btw - I knew it would). I imagine that for many of those players listed therein that there plenty of homers like yourself that had glowing things to say about those players only to watch them crash and burn in the NFL.

So, before you tell me what I do not have a clue about, dude, try to recognize that I am only expressing MY concerns about this deal based on the real possibility that he could turn out to be a dud. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it is at least a possibility.

And hey, thanks for yet another excuse about his play last year. It just goes to show that you, too, know he didn't have a great year.

ssmitty · 04-17-2008, 03:37 PM

to me, the more i think about it, i believe the saints, perhaps loomis is shaking the tree......maybe he wants to see if anyone gets scared or maybe, just maybe, he has something worked out with someone higher up. kinda a ripple effect if you will.......it certainly is making the rounds, so maybe it is working, we'll see............

FrenzyFan · 04-17-2008, 03:52 PM

I'd be a lot happier about this deal if a dominant DT was the only thing we needed on defense. It makes sense to trade up to get the piece that will take you over the top. It will almost certainly cost us our second round pick to make the deal happen. What that says is, "I'm happy with what I have on defense."

The problem is that our defense needs lots of help, and FA is essentially over. The CB situation is the most terrifying. McKenzie had a terrific year last year but may not be back, or not be back to form. We acquired Gay, but he seems like a "system" CB (see Jason David). Usama Young is unproven, don't even talk to me about Jason David. Then there's Jason Craft.... Aaron Glenn....

Our LB corps is extremely lacking as well. Everyone wants to insert Vilma as a productive LB. Problem is he has NOT been that in several years and he's coming of the "mystery" injury. I have hope for Vilma. I know many of the experts say that his production dropped because the Jets went to the 3-4. Does this not make him a role player? I know we have the right role for him, but still this is enough to at least have some doubt that he is the answer to our LB problems. If he's not, it's Simoneau again.....

We acquired Dan Morgan, who could be good if he can get on the field and stay there. Even so, he was brought in to compete with Shanle for a starting spot. If Shanle is competition to you, I would not call you an even average LB.

I like Fujita, so I'll give him a pass. He wasn't the first choice as a starter on some of his prior teams - but's he's lightyears better than any else we have on our roster.

We could use some help in coverage at safety. We could use some consistent inside pass rush - and yes, I know this makes coverage look better when you have it. All the same, our defense has far too many problems for me to feel comfortable about "breaking the bank" to get one player - even if its a great one like Dorsey.

I could live with it, if it happened - but I'm just not certain it's the best move for the team.

Edited to add "NOT" to my point about Vilma above
- Frenzy

04-17-2008, 01:36 PM	#51
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! I think you are missing the point that this about giving up so much for one player. I said I wasn't impressed with Dorsey last year based on the hype and what I got back were excuses: He was double-teamed! He was injured! The bottom line is that many of you are jumping on this moving up to 2nd bandwagon to get him and claiming he's going to go to multiple pro bowls when there's a decent chance that he could turn out to be just an average NFL player at his position. The year Reggie was drafted many experts said he was the closest thing ever to a sure thing yet he has not made a pro bowl yet. I'm going to guess that many of you are starting to have doubts if he ever will. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, but what if we had given up several picks to get him? I'm not knocking Reggie as I am glad we have him, but so far he's been good, not great. So, with Dorsey we have to pay a similar price in salary plus trade picks to get him. Is the risk of him being good, not great worth all of that?

04-17-2008, 01:42 PM	#52
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by ScottyRo I think you are missing the point that this about giving up so much for one player. I said I wasn't impressed with Dorsey last year based on the hype and what I got back were excuses: He was double-teamed! He was injured! The bottom line is that many of you are jumping on this moving up to 2nd bandwagon to get him and claiming he's going to go to multiple pro bowls when there's a decent chance that he could turn out to be just an average NFL player at his position. The year Reggie was drafted many experts said he was the closest thing ever to a sure thing yet he has not made a pro bowl yet. I'm going to guess that many of you are starting to have doubts if he ever will. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, but what if we had given up several picks to get him? I'm not knocking Reggie as I am glad we have him, but so far he's been good, not great. So, with Dorsey we have to pay a similar price in salary plus trade picks to get him. Is the risk of him being good, not great worth all of that? I am sorry but there are no excuses you are right. Dorsey dominated the SEC and the NCAA for more than one year and won a national championship. He has made excellant decisions on and off the field, I'll say again returning to win a National Championship - HE LIVED UP TO THE HYPE!!! You are drafting a guy based on his performance in college and what he 'could' do for you in the NFL. Is he worth giving up a second round pick... HELL F'IN YES! This guy looked intimidating in yellow and purple imagine what he looks like running at you in black??? LOL
	E U P H O R I A

04-17-2008, 01:49 PM	#53
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by Euphoria This guy looked intimidating in yellow and purple imagine what he looks like running at you in black??? LOL LOL That's running at me though. I'm just 5'9, 205. Of course, I'D be intimidated.

04-17-2008, 02:04 PM	#54
zachsaints52 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Abingdon, Virginia Posts: 522	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo Maybe the G-Men would take Deuce and a future pick (s) for Shockey? Then we'd have McFadden and Shockey on the offense...rather scary if you ask me. We basically need space eaters at DT with our LBs. Why would they take Deuce for when they have Jacobs and Bradshaw? Unless the future is a 2nd or 1st so they are basically taking his contract? And Rubin in the third would be our space eater for Vilma.

04-17-2008, 02:43 PM	#55
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! space eaters??? We have that now. Get a DT that has to be double teamed and your LB's will be even better weapons. If they don't double Dorsey they will pay a price with just him alone. Our DT's are good at sitting back and letting the ball carrier come to them to make the tackle.
	Last edited by Euphoria; 04-17-2008 at 02:47 PM..

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04-17-2008, 03:08 PM	#56
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by ScottyRo I think you are missing the point that this about giving up so much for one player. I said I wasn't impressed with Dorsey last year based on the hype and what I got back were excuses: He was double-teamed! He was injured! The bottom line is that many of you are jumping on this moving up to 2nd bandwagon to get him and claiming he's going to go to multiple pro bowls when there's a decent chance that he could turn out to be just an average NFL player at his position. The year Reggie was drafted many experts said he was the closest thing ever to a sure thing yet he has not made a pro bowl yet. I'm going to guess that many of you are starting to have doubts if he ever will. That doesn't mean he's not a good player, but what if we had given up several picks to get him? I'm not knocking Reggie as I am glad we have him, but so far he's been good, not great. So, with Dorsey we have to pay a similar price in salary plus trade picks to get him. Is the risk of him being good, not great worth all of that? Dude, no offense but you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. I've watched every snap Dorsey has ever played at LSU and when healthy he was one of the most dominant DT in college football history. A BS chop block against Auburn and then him playing on basically one leg from that point on doesn't take away from what he did in four years of college. When healthy, he CONSISTANTLY beats double teams and makes tackles in opposing teams backfields. He is the best player in this draft and it's not even close. IF we can get him for this years 1st and 2nd I think we have to do it. Saying this, I think this is more smoke than fire and I think it is far more likely we trade up to get Ellis.

04-17-2008, 03:11 PM	#57
Papa Voodoo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,628	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by zachsaints52 Why would they take Deuce for when they have Jacobs and Bradshaw? Unless the future is a 2nd or 1st so they are basically taking his contract? And Rubin in the third would be our space eater for Vilma. It seems Shockey will be leaving this year or the next. Deuce and Jacobs suit the Giants' running game pretty well with Bradshaw as a change-of-pace player. Deuce will get more mileage running with Jacobs, he catches a lot better than Jacobs, and the Giants could pound the ball in December/January all they wanted.

04-17-2008, 03:36 PM	#58
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by stockman311 Dude, no offense but you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. I've watched every snap Dorsey has ever played at LSU and when healthy he was one of the most dominant DT in college football history. A BS chop block against Auburn and then him playing on basically one leg from that point on doesn't take away from what he did in four years of college. When healthy, he CONSISTANTLY beats double teams and makes tackles in opposing teams backfields. He is the best player in this draft and it's not even close. IF we can get him for this years 1st and 2nd I think we have to do it. Saying this, I think this is more smoke than fire and I think it is far more likely we trade up to get Ellis. First, you couldn't mean anything but offense by saying I don't have a clue so why cower behind the "no offense" phrase? Be a man. Second, it's funny. I just got through reading ESPN's 50 biggest draft busts articles (it includes Sully, btw - I knew it would). I imagine that for many of those players listed therein that there plenty of homers like yourself that had glowing things to say about those players only to watch them crash and burn in the NFL. So, before you tell me what I do not have a clue about, dude, try to recognize that I am only expressing MY concerns about this deal based on the real possibility that he could turn out to be a dud. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it is at least a possibility. And hey, thanks for yet another excuse about his play last year. It just goes to show that you, too, know he didn't have a great year.

04-17-2008, 03:37 PM	#59
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! to me, the more i think about it, i believe the saints, perhaps loomis is shaking the tree......maybe he wants to see if anyone gets scared or maybe, just maybe, he has something worked out with someone higher up. kinda a ripple effect if you will.......it certainly is making the rounds, so maybe it is working, we'll see............
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

04-17-2008, 03:52 PM	#60
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! I'd be a lot happier about this deal if a dominant DT was the only thing we needed on defense. It makes sense to trade up to get the piece that will take you over the top. It will almost certainly cost us our second round pick to make the deal happen. What that says is, "I'm happy with what I have on defense." The problem is that our defense needs lots of help, and FA is essentially over. The CB situation is the most terrifying. McKenzie had a terrific year last year but may not be back, or not be back to form. We acquired Gay, but he seems like a "system" CB (see Jason David). Usama Young is unproven, don't even talk to me about Jason David. Then there's Jason Craft.... Aaron Glenn.... Our LB corps is extremely lacking as well. Everyone wants to insert Vilma as a productive LB. Problem is he has NOT been that in several years and he's coming of the "mystery" injury. I have hope for Vilma. I know many of the experts say that his production dropped because the Jets went to the 3-4. Does this not make him a role player? I know we have the right role for him, but still this is enough to at least have some doubt that he is the answer to our LB problems. If he's not, it's Simoneau again..... We acquired Dan Morgan, who could be good if he can get on the field and stay there. Even so, he was brought in to compete with Shanle for a starting spot. If Shanle is competition to you, I would not call you an even average LB. I like Fujita, so I'll give him a pass. He wasn't the first choice as a starter on some of his prior teams - but's he's lightyears better than any else we have on our roster. We could use some help in coverage at safety. We could use some consistent inside pass rush - and yes, I know this makes coverage look better when you have it. All the same, our defense has far too many problems for me to feel comfortable about "breaking the bank" to get one player - even if its a great one like Dorsey. I could live with it, if it happened - but I'm just not certain it's the best move for the team. Edited to add "NOT" to my point about Vilma above - Frenzy
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg Last edited by FrenzyFan; 04-17-2008 at 03:55 PM..