Tobias-Reiper

…dude, you really have lost it. I’m not against giving up a 2nd if it lands Dorsey or Ellis, but to say that R2-R4 yields you 7-9 8-8, that is just wrong.
You are also assuming that Dorsey is going to face undersized O-linemen with poor technique every Sunday in the NFL.

I’d be ok if the Saints stood pat at #10 and picked Rivers then picked Laws/Connor/Mayo at #40.

Euphoria

average players... average team will get you an average record. Nothing wrong about that statement. I can't see how poor players on a poor team is going to get you 16-0?

Also I am ok with hanging back at 10 but I don't see us getting a player who is going impact our d as much as Dorsey will. Thats why I say its actually better to move up and snag Dorsey addressing our our DL.

FrenzyFan

The reason you keep catching flack is that you equate R2-R4 players with being guaranteed average, non-impact players. History clearly disproves that statement, even with picks in rounds after 2-4. There are 6th and 7th round picks playing in the league right now who are outplaying their 1st round (even 1st pick overall) counterparts. A round 2 pick has a LOT of value, to the right team/scouting department/draft evaluator. I'm not talking about some chart that seeks to attach a number to a draft pick. I'm talking about a player.

You feel (very strongly) that Dorsey is a can't-miss player so it's worth giving up our second round pick for. Other people feel that when our round 2 pick comes up, there will still be impact players on the board. Our history of drafts with this coaching staff has been a 50/50 line. One year, we couldn't miss with our draft picks - the next they all seem to be struggling (and that's being kind in some cases). If this is the year where we are "on", and considering the many needs our defense has, it may be better to take two impact players than just Dorsey.

For my part, I'll be a little disappointed if we trade up - but at the same time I'll be excited to see what Dorsey can do. He was great in college, but I have to agree when it was pointed out that players in the NFL (and particularly NFL linemen) are not undersized, like they are in college. I'd be hopeful, but only time would tell if Dorsey can immediately handle the transition to an NFL level.

If we trade up and get Ellis, would you still consider it a bargain? After all, your whole argument says that we need DTs to provide pass rush and thereby give the illusion that our secondary is better than it is.

\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue

http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

BRSaintsFan

If you can get lucky like the Giants and hit on each draft pick you make, then, absolutely more is better. Typically, you hit on some players and miss on others in the draft so its not about quantity as much as quality. If you have a player as a sure prospect or a safe pick, then thats the guy you take. You do not stockpile picks and bring in 10 guys and hope that a handful of them make the roster and make some sort of contribution to the team unless you are in rebuilding mode. We are not in rebuilding mode. We are on the cusp and need to make the plays for the IMPACT players that can put us over the top. Drafting for quantity and being patient with all of the prospects we get is not at all what the Saints want or need. They need players who can contribute immediately even if in some cases their ceiling is limited.

BooBirdSaint

No way Jim Haslett agrees to help the Saints get a player. Moving to number 2 is a pipe dream, delusion, fantasy never happen...

lsutigerfan

I would say you're right if it was Hasletts call but its not.

Euphoria

I am sorry but you want to put the best guys on the field always!!! Why would you want to start the 4-5 best guys in their position? Makes no sense. You win with the best, you win with attitude and desire and Dorsey had displayed this all his life.

Essentially you have to take the Fantasy Football approach. You draft the best player don't you? You don't settle for a bunch of 'ok' guys. You can only start so many players... Its like saying you'd pass on Payton Manning in order to have Trent Dilfer and Thomas Jones. I am taking Payton Manny sorry.

E U P H O R I A

JKool

I'm all for improving our pass rush, and I can't help but agree with Euph and SFIAH that this is of greater importance than a CB. However, I am also in favor of improving our run defense. Of course, these stud DTs will help us, do both (improve pass rush and run defense). However, if we can get LB Rivers at 10, I don't see too much need to carry the cost of moving up to #2.

The addition of Vilma is great, but the addition of Rivers and Vilma will go a long way toward stopping the run - which has also been a consistent problem for our defense.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

SaintFanInATLHELL

JKool,

Good to hear from you. It's been a while.

The run defense got better last year. But I think it came at the cost of committing safeties to the cause. Improving the LB corps will certainly help in the cause.

But the Saints biggest problem was the continue giving up of big plays over the top. And frankly it takes time for those plays to develop. It takes time in the pocket to do play action to bring up the safeties, and for receivers to do double moves.

Eliminate that time and those types of plays go way down.

The Saints defense in the middle was awfully weak last year. Personally I believe that if KK can get on the field it'll help in the defensive backfield in the middle, and the middle LB position is taken care of with Vilma. All that's left is that dynamic DT that pushes the pocket from the inside, demands double teams, and opens up the edge to our pass rushing ends that range from outstanding (Smith) to pretty good (Grant).

At the will, I can hope that Morgan recovers. I can live with Shanle. I can look to the future with Evans.

But the DT position is the missing piece to making the defense decent, if not dominant.

It was less consistent in 2007, moreso in 2006. Vilma is going to be a tackling machine in the middle. Fujita will no longer have to cover for 53 getting swallowed up. The safeties will be able to sit back more and actually cover on play action instead of biting at the first hint of a handoff.

The DT is the glue that ties it all together. Install Dorsey next to Hollis, with Young to rotate and install the 3 end package with Grant coming inside, along with Fijita, Vilma, and Morgan, and that's a defense we can depend on not to let the game slip away. Even with the CB corps we have now. Even with David. Dare I say it, even with Bullocks if we can teach him not to bite on run fakes.

It'll be a defense that will let Payton, Brees and the offense paint masterpieces with fearing that any mistake will cost the game.

It'll be worth it.

SFIAH

Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO

Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

papz

Sounds like he's suggesting a Ricky Williams type draft doesn't it? Unless it's a high one, the rest are pretty much irrelevant. Plenty of impact players can be had rounds 1-7... you just got to know how to pick them.