Has disappointment set in?
 

while just about everyone aggrees that picking up ellis is one of the better moves in the draft....but our second round pick....i dont think theres much we could have done worse...i mean we could've ended up not having one and that might top it.....but we did....so....was it really worth it to wait so long to see if the shockey trade would go through?....and since it didnt we had to settle with a CB with great speed but a very bad tackler to say the least....not only will he struggle with tackling in the NFL...its pretty safe to say hes a liability to have on the field when our opponents are running....i think that it could hurt him because if he starts jumping on play actions he will be no better than fred thomas....i think we should've traded and picked up flowers.....what do u guys think?

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I think that you and only one or two others are totally disappointed with Porter. I'm all for the pick and becoming more so the more I read and see on this kid.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I am disappointed with the pick....i know that the FO wants to make the best moves for the team overall but i really believe we could have picked up brandon flowers in a trade or we could've actually made the trade for shockey...i just think it was a last minute decision and it was more of a fall back than a true pick

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Canton you complained all last week about how we shouldnt go DT in the first and go with a CB. after not addressing the CB position in the first, how can you complain about the porter pick? he was the best CB on the board at #40.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

you're exactly right....i liked ellis...but we need a CB more....i never said i didnt like him....but since we picked up a DT we sacrificed our CB position...now we are at the same place we were last year with our secondary....porter will not start...and will see very limited play time this season....not only that but he wont start in front of Usama Young...i got a bias cuz he's an ohio prospect....but with the addition of randall gay having young in our lineup already we are not going to play porter much at all.....we could've picked up a CB who would start from day 1 much like aaron ross and chris houston and eric wright did last year

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I disagree on your idea that it was a fallback selection. I could have gone either way on the Shockey deal. The TE's we have now are definitely serviceable enough for at least another season. Even though, Shockey could have made our team an offensive juggernaut, it is still going to be one of the most potent in the NFL. We didn't get him, so let's move on.

As far as trading up for Flowers. Who is to say that he was going to be the answer at corner? We can't honestly say that Porter is either, but I'm totally satisfied with the selection. Trading up for Flowers would have meant getting rid of another draft pick. Although it would have been a late-round pick, after Peyton's first draft with the Saints and bringing in players like Evans, Colston, and Usama Young, I am eager to see what direction they go with their picks in the late rounds. Porter seems more like a fit to this defensive system since there is a lot of man-to-man coverage anyways.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

ur right there isnt much to go on to say who will be a better pro...except for the past....brandon flowers got more hype for a reason...he's a better prospect than porter....i like porters speed but his tackling and size will be an issue....he wont get beat deep but he will definitly not help in the open field

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Im not gonna argue that Flowers wouldve been better, cuz i agree with you. but like D it up said, we wouldve had to give up more picks. we cant keep giving up pick after pick and expect our D to improve. sometimes i think people expect too much from out FO. we desperately need to get younger at both DT and CB and we took steps to do that today without giving up very much at all.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

when will porter play?....i dont see him getting playing time except on special teams...if hes not gonna play....its a wasted pick...while he has potential....he has more question marks and than he does upsides

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

he was the best available cb on the board that fit our system. we don't have many more picks to trade up. I think we did great for what we had.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I like the pick, I like the draft, and I like our off-season. I think we are better and I think our secondary continues to improve over all. Harper, Gay, Porter, Young. We are younger and I am hoping and thinking improved
BTW you are wrong that we needed a corner more then a DT. You win and lose in the trenches. If you do not control the line of scrimmage I don't care who your corner is.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Just Ellis alone is going to make our CB situation much better this kid can cover so he's not a very good tackeler nor was Deon Sanders and if he was a better tackeler he's probably a first rounder.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Well said. Very well said.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

its easy to say im wrong but its based on facts....the fact is...there are no colstons in this draft....the fact is....porter is speedy but will not play on D....the fact is ellis is great yes....but the fact is....we sacrificed our secondary yet again....our secondary has improved this offseason no doubt....but thats like being the tallest midget....its not going to secure ne thing for us....sure nobody will run against us...but guess what...they didnt have to last year cuz we were getting beat over our heads....its not going to change

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Porter had 80 tackles last year...that is extremely high for a CB. He has the speed and athletic ability to fit in our defense...no he wont start this year, most rookie CB's dont, and the ones that do are rarely effective in their rookie season. Dont compare any CB in this draft to Aaron Ross, Revis or Hall from last year because those 3 are head and shoulders better than any CB that came out this year. Flowers played on a better team with a better team around him, and that is why he got hyped more. He is not the best fit for the Saints because of his lack of top end speed.

I dont know about you, but i am tired of having a slow defense and guys like Brandon Flowers and Dan Conner would not have changed that. We actually added a force on the d-line, a speedy athletic young MLB, and the fastest CB in the draft. In one years time, we added 4 CB's that are 25 or younger and that allowed us to get rid of guys like Thomas and now Craft and we actually have some athletes on the back end that will be able to learn together and make some plays. Usama Young is going to be a very good CB one day, and i believe Porter will too. Porter's strong suit is matching up with smaller, speedy WR's and that is exactly what he is going to be dealing with in the NFC South...Steve Smith, Roddy White, Galloway...no big physical guys...all speed guys.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

while i think that ellis was a great pickup for only a 3rd rounder and our 1st rounder....i hate that the saints did not trade up to get brandon flowers who i really think would compliment our defensive backs a lot better....i think that we were holding on to the shockey trade for too long....i thought for a second we might miss our pick...i think it got down to 24 seconds or so....i think they wanted shockey....and after a week of the hype...i kinda wanted us to get him too....i like our 2nd pick but i think that had we known shockey wouldnt be traded to us we might have tried to move up and get brandon flowers


canton i copied this from another thread that you posted-on this post you say you like our 2nd round pick, so let me ask you what changed so drastically in 10 minutes.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

while i like his ability....i've thought about our secondary....he doesnt help us at all...i've asked this a lot so far and nobody has answered me.....who is he going to start over?....we could've had flowers who would start for us on nickel downs....but now we have a CB who very possibly may not see a down this year

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

bobaganoosh excellent post.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

i disagree with just about everything you said canton. as far as the colston comment, that was a needle in a haystack, if youre looking to find a colston in every draft youre gonna be seriously disappointed. porter will have every opportunity to improve, the reason you say we need a CB is due to our secondary not being very good, why wouldnt he have a shot to start if they are as bad as you think. getting ellis, helps our secondary, putting pressure on a QB, will always be a good thing for secondaries. our offseason moves have positioned us to have smith, grant, ellis, and mccray, rushing the QBs in passing situations. im not saying, were suddenly a top 5 D, but we are improved. we had so many problems with our D last year, its crazy to think we can fix everything in one offseason.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Guess what when a QB has all day to throw the ball any defense with get shreded in the air but because of Ellis, Vilma and Mccay were not gonna have that problem this year.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

They were beating us over our heads, because THERE WAS NO FREAKIN' PASS RUSH! Ellis is going to draw double-teams. With him and (insert other DT here) providing a bull-rush up the middle, the pocket will collapse quickly allowing Grant, McCray, or Smith to provide the necessary pressure on the QB so he doesn't have seven or eight seconds to complete a pass. This will allow our secondary to stay tighter with the receivers and cut down all the big plays teams had against them last year. Our linebackers should should also be much improved in pass coverage which will take even more pressure off the secondary. Even though we don't have a top-flight corner, we shouldn't need one as long as the QB is watching the game from his back.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

CBs tend to have a longer learning curve in the transition to the NFL, like WRs. This means that it is rare to find a CB who is not slotted for the Nickle or Dime slot in his first year or two. It is very rare that a new CB comes in and is what you are asking for - a serious improvement to a seasoned secondary.

No one has said that Porter is a bad tackler (in anything I've read about him), what they said is that he is a bit small and lacks aggressiveness. However, in agreement with Boba above, 80+ tackles doesn't sound like a slouch to me.

I think the Shockey trade would have helped us more right now, but in the long run, Porter is as good as any we could have got at #40. I say nice pick.

I also think that an improved (and healthy D-line) that can slow the run (limiting play action and the need for the CBs to play down) and create some pass rush will improve our secondary immeasurably.

I'm not disappointed at all with our first two picks.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I completely disagree. There was no chance Flowers would have come in and been our nickle CB. McKenzie, Young, David, and Gay are going to be our top 4 and that wouldnt change regardless of who we drafted. Porter will be on the field this year, he will return some kicks, and he can run with anyone in the league. He is similar to Young in ability, but he is further along in development and he is a bit faster. he can run with Galloway and Smith and he will help out here and there this year, but you have to think long term when it comes to draft picks man. That is what you are missing. Its not always about what the give you on day 1, but what they give you by midseason, or when someone goes down, or by year 2...and that fact is especially true when it comes to Cb's.

You wanted to trade up for Flowers...ok, by giving up what? We dont have anything to give...no 3rd, no 4th...you want to come away from this draft with only 2 players?

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I completely agree with you D_it_up2, the more I read on the kid, the more I like it. He excels in man-to-man schemes because he has great speed and instincts. I wouldn't worry about the "bulk" issue that they claim he lacks, he'll add the weight. I think this was the best CB pick available at the time.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

There is still a "Colston" in this draft. His name is Marcus Monk. :)

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

i prefer him over flowers for our system. flowers is physical but could cost us the deep ball because he tends to stare down the backfield(another JD).. and he is not as consistent. He's very aggressive and can beaten by double-moves. (Jason David 101)

Porter has 1 inch on flowers in height. Has much better speed. Is much more of a playmaker on the ball with larger hands.. He possesses elite change of direction which is perfect for what we need. His main knock is bulk/strength.. mainly against the run but we have a great run D.. especially with all the linebackers we added.

Porter= "One of the nation's top playmaking defensive backs, Tracy Porter became the first player in school history to return a punt, interception and fumble for touchdowns in his career."

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

also with TB drafting dexter jackson, getting a guy like porter looks even better.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I like the Porter pick. I personally wanted Fred Davis when the Shockey deal fell through, but Porter is still a good pick.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Who could this guy NOT start over this season? McKenzie is coming off of knee surgery, the smoke still hasn't settled off of David from all the times he was burned, Young obviously hasn't shown enough to warrant much PT. Gay could end up being a good pick-up, or he could be another David-type pick-up. Craft? Thomas? I don't even have to bother with those two, because they are too easy. I'm not saying that he is going to be a starter, but he has just as much chance as anyone right now.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Dit up and Jkool I am right with you. No one, no matter their corners, were going to be able to cover the new england wideouts last year. Way to much speed an skill. How do you neutralize that, you put pressure on the qb and make him rush his throws. You will not always get there but you hope you can be disruptive enough. I think will smith has his best year this year. it all, every bit of it, starts at the line of scrimmage.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

==============

and if anyone had known that Colston would have been as good as he is he would have gone in the first two rounds. No one can say Flowers is better than Porter you cannot judge a draft until after three years, we took the best CB available at the time and did not give up anymore draft picks for him.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

good call on the Dexter Jackson comment....and another thing about Porter, he capitalizes on opportunities. He had 16 picks in his career...16...for a guy playing mostly man coverage it is imperative that you catch the ball when you get the chance...just a note, McKelvin had 4 picks in 4 years.

Its nice to know that if a CB does make a mistake, chances are this guy is going to make him pay...instead of letting a game changing play slip through his fingertips.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

I like the pick hes fast and has good ball skills
..........he grew up in port allen so hes coming home
he'll come in and help out a lot.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

\
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Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

i posted this in another threat but i prefer him over flowers for our system. flowers is physical but could cost us the deep ball because he tends to stare down the backfield(another JD).. and he is not as consistent. He's very aggressive and can beaten by double-moves. (Jason David 101)

Porter has 1 inch on flowers in height. Has much better speed. Is much more of a playmaker on the ball with larger hands.. He possesses elite change of direction which is perfect for what we need. His main knock is bulk/strength.. mainly against the run but we have a great run D.. especially with all the linebackers we added.

Porter= "One of the nation's top playmaking defensive backs, Tracy Porter became the first player in school history to return a punt, interception and fumble for touchdowns in his career."

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

no one is coming at you canton. ive been posting on this board for a long time and reading it for even longer. it looks like youre new to the board and thats cool, but no one is coming at you. you asked our opinion and w're giving it, most just happen to disagree with you. we are all passionate and opinionated about the saints. so dont take any of it personally.

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

Bobaganosh the check is in the mail

Re: Has disappointment set in?
 

HAHA good quote, maybe we shouldve drafted jack burton in the 2nd? if he can take down Lopan surely he can cover a WR.