LB

saintsrule · 04-29-2008, 02:50 AM

If they think they need another LB, then they can still get one before the season starts.

JKool · 04-29-2008, 09:33 AM

Heya Ice,

Good to be back, and it is nice to see there are still some old timers around.

I'm not sold on the idea that Simoneau is carp. He isn't good at sticking his nose in the gap, but he has good speed and can chase down plays. My thought was this: if he is protected by a good interior, then he may still be useful - I thought MLB, but maybe WLB. It depends on how we're going to use our LBs this year.

It seems the going opinion is that Simoneau is a special teamer at best. I'm not convinced, but I'm willing to bet I don't have all the evidence.

lsutigerfan · 04-29-2008, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by mighty12

Are we suppose to sit around and be content with our fragile LB Corps? I for one and very upset that this postion was not addressed in rounds 5 through 7. Or better yet rounds 1-3. I thought that LB was still a pressing need, because we only have ONE LB who is proven healthy. Vilma, I think will be great, but what if something DOES happen. Dan Morgan, I know will get hurt and when he does he will be gone for good. Who else do we have. I hope that this new front four makes our LB corps look WAY better than they really are.

I for one dont understand how anyone can be upset this offseason I think we made great strides to becoming a much better defense.

andersen · 04-29-2008, 10:18 AM

I hope Simmoneau gets splinters from riding the pine.

JKool · 04-29-2008, 10:25 AM

The guy did have 70 tackles for us last season. And he was certainly good enough to help us make the playoffs the year before.

I'm not saying he's great or anything, I'm just trying to understand all the hate.

andersen · 04-29-2008, 10:43 AM

70/16 = 4.4 tackles per game. Last year, there were 7 games (that he started) and had 3 or fewer tackles. Unacceptable for a MLB in this defense. Vilma will have 100 before December.

JKool · 04-29-2008, 11:01 AM

I certainly concede that Vilma will be better, no matter which LB position he plays; Vilma is a star (if he recovers), Simoneau will never be.

I think our best starting LB set up as of now (and assuming health) is this:

MLB - Morgan
WLB - Vilma
SLB - Fugita

And, there has been some discussion about Morgan at WLB with Vilma at MLB. My preference is we get away from the Urlacher style MLB - speed, every down, and protected by DTs; I'd prefer we go back to an old school 4-3, where the MLB wasn't the every down LB, big, heavy hitter, frees up the DTs to rush (since he doesn't need to be protected). This second system frees the WLB to make more plays in the open, blitz, and focus on the hunt, rather than taking on blockers. This favors Vilma at WLB and Morgan at MLB.

However, if Morgan is unhealthy, which is likely, then I'd like to say that I'd rather have Simoneau (who is speedier, and generally better) on the feild than Shanle. Maybe Evans would be ok, but he hasn't ever been a starter in his 7 years playing. I think a move to WLB would at least improve Simoneau's productivity. We could do worse.

Also, 4.4 tackles per game isn't too bad (Antonio Peirce only had 6 per game). And, as noted, Simoneau was even better the year before.

maximkat · 04-29-2008, 11:21 AM

admittedly, i'm a Simoneau hater. most of those tackles came after he bit on the fake hand off (as in most of the tackles were 5-10 yards downfield as opposed to at or near the line)...seriously this guy seemed out of position more than i care to remember. he shouldn't have nearly as hard a time finding his position on the bench. That will make at least one person happy, and since my happiness is the only one I care about, I'm fine with it.

IMO Vilma is at MLB, I've been wrong a billion and a half times before but I can't believe we went out to get this guy so he can play something besides that position.

andersen · 04-29-2008, 11:22 AM

Morgan has only played four games in the past two years. I don't think he will make it through TC, more less the season. I hope I'm wrong.
Vilma is made for the middle, but we still need the WLB. Shanlee/Simoneau ? We have seen what they can do. Mitchell in the middle with Vilma outlside?? Seems like we are still missing a piece.

JKool · 04-29-2008, 11:29 AM

The distinction between a MLB and WLB isn't as strong as it once was.

People have become used to the Urlacher style system, where your MLB is the one who is freed up to make plays all around the field. He has to be tough, but his primary role is no longer run stuffing. This requires DTs that are primarily run-stuffers

My feeling is that if you can get DTs that can penetrate and make plays on the QB, you want a system where your WLB plays the role that MLBs tend to play today. If Ellis is truly more like a LaRoi Glover, then I want my MLB to play run support, be a bruiser and focus on the interior run and hook zone. I want my WLB to be the play maker. This is the only reason I'm suggesting that Vilma be moved outside. I think that makes some sense.

As for Simoneau, I think whether he's on the field regularly should depend on his play (as does everyone else, I take it). Looking at the LBs we have, I think he's a good option at WLB (if we're going to use Vilma in an Urlacher-style MLB role). He got speed and some coverage skills; I certainly agree that he should never play MLB for us again.

04-29-2008, 02:50 AM	#21
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657	Re: LB If they think they need another LB, then they can still get one before the season starts.
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657

04-29-2008, 09:33 AM	#22
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: LB Heya Ice, Good to be back, and it is nice to see there are still some old timers around. I'm not sold on the idea that Simoneau is carp. He isn't good at sticking his nose in the gap, but he has good speed and can chase down plays. My thought was this: if he is protected by a good interior, then he may still be useful - I thought MLB, but maybe WLB. It depends on how we're going to use our LBs this year. It seems the going opinion is that Simoneau is a special teamer at best. I'm not convinced, but I'm willing to bet I don't have all the evidence.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

04-29-2008, 09:46 AM	#23
lsutigerfan 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: born And raised in NOLA, now live in Los Angeles Posts: 811	Re: LB Originally Posted by mighty12 Are we suppose to sit around and be content with our fragile LB Corps? I for one and very upset that this postion was not addressed in rounds 5 through 7. Or better yet rounds 1-3. I thought that LB was still a pressing need, because we only have ONE LB who is proven healthy. Vilma, I think will be great, but what if something DOES happen. Dan Morgan, I know will get hurt and when he does he will be gone for good. Who else do we have. I hope that this new front four makes our LB corps look WAY better than they really are. I for one dont understand how anyone can be upset this offseason I think we made great strides to becoming a much better defense.

04-29-2008, 10:18 AM	#24
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: LB I hope Simmoneau gets splinters from riding the pine.

04-29-2008, 10:25 AM	#25
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: LB The guy did have 70 tackles for us last season. And he was certainly good enough to help us make the playoffs the year before. I'm not saying he's great or anything, I'm just trying to understand all the hate.

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04-29-2008, 10:43 AM	#26
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: LB 70/16 = 4.4 tackles per game. Last year, there were 7 games (that he started) and had 3 or fewer tackles. Unacceptable for a MLB in this defense. Vilma will have 100 before December.

04-29-2008, 11:01 AM	#27
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: LB I certainly concede that Vilma will be better, no matter which LB position he plays; Vilma is a star (if he recovers), Simoneau will never be. I think our best starting LB set up as of now (and assuming health) is this: MLB - Morgan WLB - Vilma SLB - Fugita And, there has been some discussion about Morgan at WLB with Vilma at MLB. My preference is we get away from the Urlacher style MLB - speed, every down, and protected by DTs; I'd prefer we go back to an old school 4-3, where the MLB wasn't the every down LB, big, heavy hitter, frees up the DTs to rush (since he doesn't need to be protected). This second system frees the WLB to make more plays in the open, blitz, and focus on the hunt, rather than taking on blockers. This favors Vilma at WLB and Morgan at MLB. However, if Morgan is unhealthy, which is likely, then I'd like to say that I'd rather have Simoneau (who is speedier, and generally better) on the feild than Shanle. Maybe Evans would be ok, but he hasn't ever been a starter in his 7 years playing. I think a move to WLB would at least improve Simoneau's productivity. We could do worse. Also, 4.4 tackles per game isn't too bad (Antonio Peirce only had 6 per game). And, as noted, Simoneau was even better the year before.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

04-29-2008, 11:21 AM	#28
maximkat ChocolateMilk Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Live Free or Die Posts: 362	Re: LB admittedly, i'm a Simoneau hater. most of those tackles came after he bit on the fake hand off (as in most of the tackles were 5-10 yards downfield as opposed to at or near the line)...seriously this guy seemed out of position more than i care to remember. he shouldn't have nearly as hard a time finding his position on the bench. That will make at least one person happy, and since my happiness is the only one I care about, I'm fine with it. IMO Vilma is at MLB, I've been wrong a billion and a half times before but I can't believe we went out to get this guy so he can play something besides that position.
	And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. -- Kahlil Gibran

04-29-2008, 11:22 AM	#29
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: LB Morgan has only played four games in the past two years. I don't think he will make it through TC, more less the season. I hope I'm wrong. Vilma is made for the middle, but we still need the WLB. Shanlee/Simoneau ? We have seen what they can do. Mitchell in the middle with Vilma outlside?? Seems like we are still missing a piece.

04-29-2008, 11:29 AM	#30
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: LB The distinction between a MLB and WLB isn't as strong as it once was. People have become used to the Urlacher style system, where your MLB is the one who is freed up to make plays all around the field. He has to be tough, but his primary role is no longer run stuffing. This requires DTs that are primarily run-stuffers My feeling is that if you can get DTs that can penetrate and make plays on the QB, you want a system where your WLB plays the role that MLBs tend to play today. If Ellis is truly more like a LaRoi Glover, then I want my MLB to play run support, be a bruiser and focus on the interior run and hook zone. I want my WLB to be the play maker. This is the only reason I'm suggesting that Vilma be moved outside. I think that makes some sense. As for Simoneau, I think whether he's on the field regularly should depend on his play (as does everyone else, I take it). Looking at the LBs we have, I think he's a good option at WLB (if we're going to use Vilma in an Urlacher-style MLB role). He got speed and some coverage skills; I certainly agree that he should never play MLB for us again.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks