JKool

I looked over several other Safeties that are considered good, and they have similar stats to Polamalu.

As for stats being for losers, whatever.

I agree that these two Safeties we have are not good. I'm not sure why you can't admit they don't suck. The stats sheets contain information, even if it is summarized and subjet to some interpretation.

Finally, I have seen a good number of games, and I know full well that (unless you are present at the actual game, and for some reason not paying attention to the ball) that it is very difficult to see what the Safeties are doing on most plays. I've seen our Safeties make several mistakes, as have you I'm sure.

However, I don't think a small amount of anecdotal evidence is sufficient to write them off. They are starters on an NFL team. Could they be better? Yes. Could they be worse? Yes.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

Euphoria

Whatever??? I love that term because its the biggest cop-out that people like to use. Stats can be read into and misleading. You can get them to say anything you want them to say.

They did suck... how may 20 plus yards were given up??? Where did the saints rank as for as other teams are in that stat??? Where are the Safties usually responsible for the 20 plus yard areas??? YEAH. Do the math and you'll see what I am talking about. They did not help the CB's nor themselves last year.

Safteys are to help the CB's and when you give up that many big plays in the passing game you have to point the finger at the safties and see how they played... which was out of position many many times. CB's can only do so much they expect help over the top and it just wasn't there.

E U P H O R I A

LordOfEntropy

I didn't think our run defense was lousy. On the contrary, I thought it was pretty good. It was our pass defense that sucked, not the run defense.

That being said, I think our safety play was poor. SS - average. FS - poor. IMO, we need a FS that can play better pass defense, one that has more speed, one that can make more out of blitzes, and one that can get more turnovers. Gimme that, and I think we are bonafide Superbowl contenders.

WillMacKenzie

I was one hoping to upgrade at safety.

A. Harper apparently experienced a sophomore slump - hopefully he rebounds big this year. I think he will be good, he's still young.

B. All of them were caught with their pants down many many times - but honestly they did happen to make a FEW plays in all fairness.

KK at least lays licks on people, that is one plus I have for him over Josh "Wrong Place, Wrong Time" Bullocks.

Overall Safety Grade: D- Burned way too many times.

Euphoria

Yes run Defense was great... that was due to the DT's and DE's waiting there at the line for the RB's to come to them.

Our DL had no push, no explosion off the line to disrupt most of the time, no pass rush... but boy could they sit there and wait for the ball carrier. LOL.

saintsrule

I think Bullocks and Harper are two young players that play well, and are doing what the coaches tell them. I think this year will be great for them, because they have learned alot in the last couple of years. I hope they play together for the next few seasons and help the Saints win.

Euphoria

Hey I hope they get it together... but does't change the fact they stunk last year. If they were doing all they were suppose to be doing they WR's would have never been pass them. MM wouldn't have chewed there butts over and over again trying to tell them where and what they should have been doing.

LordOfEntropy

Good point. I re-watched the Seahawks game last night. In one play, MM was covering the wideout, who did a quick out to the sideline. While this was going on, the slot receiver shot by him for the right corner of the end zone. One of the safeties (believe it was Bullocks) was supposed to tail the slot, but instead he bit on MM's receiver, leaving the other guy scott free in the end zone. When MM saw the safety going the wrong way, he switched guys, tried to get over there and cover the other guy - but it was too late. He was standing there all alone in the endzone when the ball arrived. TOUCHDOWN. You could tell MM was pissed.

We've gotta get better at safety.

can anyone help me id this tune? it goes thwap thwap boom tch boom tch boom tch.

Qui a laissez sortir les chiens!

JKool

I still agree that our Safeties need to improve or be replaced.

However, I now have to take issue with a number of claims:

(1) If you think that the number of plays over 20 yards is relevant, then you think some statistics are relevant. I'm sorry you didn't like the ones I gave.

(2) It is false that statistics can be made to say anything someone wants. They are representations of what happened, and certainly are open to some interpretation. However, a simple example will make my point. If the stats say that so-and-so got two interceptions in a game, no one, and I mean no one, can get that stat to say that so-and-so got three interceptions.

(3) Whether the Safeties are supposed to help the CBs, the LBs, or play on their own depends on the defensive scheme and the defensive play call. I don't see how you can claim that teh Safeties job is to help the CBs. The Safeties job is to do what they are supposed to do given the defensive play call.

I do concede the evidence given regarding MM being pissed several times. However, I don't see that this (small amount) evidence is any better than the statistical evidence I offered. Furthermore, I'm unclear on how often this happend.

I further concede that statistics are not the end all be all of analysis. This is why I didn't say that our Safeties were as good as Polumalu, despite having similar stats. However, I don't understand why it is impossible to believe they weren't that bad, given their counts on tackles, passes defended, and so on - which are about as good as any Safety currently starting in the NFL!

Perhaps there is some disagreement about the word "stunk" or "sucked"? I think that our Safeties could improve, but they are serviceable options if play at other positions improves. I don't think that amounts to "stinking." Maybe that is my mistake.

Finally,

(4) Our run defense was not great on any understanding of the word great. We did manage to be in the top third of teams with respect to yards surrendered. That is good. However, we gave up 4 yards a carry, which doesn't scrape the to half of defenses. That is not great.

I know, I know. Stats don't matter.

For those do accept stats as some (though not conclusive) evidence, I believe I've offered a case for our Safeties AS PASSABLE options.

Would I like an improvement? Again, yes.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

iceshack149

I agree. That play happened right in front of me. I think that it was Bullocks. I was in the stands pointing at the receiver and yelling at the Safety saying "No! This guy!!! Drat!"