Saftey Help

saintfanatic · 04-29-2008, 01:58 AM

I don't understand why the Saints have not addressed the need for help at Saftey. I know it is easy to say that corner was the biggest need after Jason David was exposed as a fraud but saftey needs to be upgraded as well.

Sammy Knight is the last saftey that made a difference in N.O. Although he was run out of New Orleans (I think becasue of T. Sucky Jones) I still think he was the best saftey the Saints have put on the field in many years.

Good news is I hear he is avalible again - Not sure but I think he is 82 now and has an arthritic hip so it would only be a slight upgrade.

What are you thoughts on possible Saftey upgrades.

hagan714 · 04-29-2008, 06:29 AM

No way could we address all the defensive needs. I think they have tried but nothing worked out this year. Besides this is only the second full year they will playing together at SS and FS. with all the other changes we have made I think we can survive. Run support from the safety position will not be as big of a demand as it was last year. We may have to wait till 2009 to address it. Then again the way the saints have worked FA and the draft they may still have a move or two left in them.

LordOfEntropy · 04-29-2008, 08:18 AM

Are any safeties projected as cap casualties come June 1st?

winmill1 · 04-29-2008, 09:18 AM

I don't think our S position is that bad. I think this year they will look better with the D-line getting more pressure. The improvement will trickle down to the secondary.

BRSaintsFan · 04-29-2008, 09:22 AM

Agreed. With the additions of Ellis and Vilma, they will not be asked to play as much in run support and that should help them in passing situations. Keep in mind that Harper is still young and has promise. Hopefully, if they open the spot for competition between Bullocks and KK, then we will see one or both of them step up their game and claim it.

JKool · 04-29-2008, 10:42 AM

Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge Sammy Knight fan, but don't people remember how Knight and Bellamy got burned deep like every third play that one season? Knight was simply too slow to play in a Left-Right system, which is what we were building at the time.

I was a bit surprised when we didn't try to pick up the S from Michigan as an UDFA, but we did get some kid.

Last year in the offseason we brought in a lot of Safeties. Haper and Bullocks won the jobs. I'm convinced that with a better pass rush, as has been noted by many, our Safeties will be better. That said, I don't think either will ever be a star S. Of course, we don't need stars at every position. Bullocks has one more year of experience, so maybe he'll get a bit better - it isn't his fault that he didn't expect David to get burnt every play. I think Haper is a solid player.

How much better do we need to at Saftey to (1) to win games, (2) to make the playoffs, (3) to win the SB?

I'd guess the following: (1) we're good, (2) we're good, (3) that depends on what team we are playing and whether or not our offense can keep putting up the numbers.

In all, I'd say that it isn't our Safeties, no matter how mediocre, that are the main stumbling block GIVEN how how team is constructed and how it has won games in the last two years.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet health at LB and RB are going to be our main concerns. Secondarily, I'd guess that the constitution of our OL and its ability to gel as a unit is the next greatest concern.

andersen · 04-29-2008, 11:29 AM

We still have Reiss (sp) on the roster. Haven't seen much of him, so I don't know what he brings. KK is better than Bullocks. Harper will get better, imo.

Euphoria · 04-29-2008, 12:53 PM

No the safties were bad, period. They were out of position, didn't make the proper breaks on deep passes and let the WR's get pass them.

I know many of you like to drag Jason David through the mud but a lot of it needs to be placed on the coaches and the Safties as well. You don't bring in a cover 2 CB and say ok play man and here is a saftey to help you from time to time...wait a saftey who doesn't know what the hell he is doing. Jason David earned a SB ring. Reason: he had support and coaches who knew what the F they were doing.

We are still going to have our short comings on D this coming year but at least we are taking the steps in the right direction. I agree Ellis is going to help a lot of areas look good at times but you can't fix everything in one offseason. But great strides were made and there will be improvement. If not Coaching staff days are numbered.

JKool · 04-29-2008, 03:56 PM

I agree that the coaches are partly responsible for David's getting hung out to dry. However, I disagree on your assessment of our Safeties.

In 2004 and 2005, Troy Polamalu was a very good Safety. Those years, he averaged 94 tackles, 8 passes defended, and 4 picks. (He played all 16 games both seasons.)

Last year, Harper had 90 tackles, 8 passes defended, and 3 picks (not to mention 4 sacks).

Further, Bullocks had 77 tackles, 8 passes defended, and 2 picks. (And, he didn't play in two games.)

Now, before anyone gets all "how dare you compare Polamalu" to our dou--bags, I'm not comparing them in terms of quality of player, I'm merely comparing them statistically. My conclusion, these Safeties weren't all THAT bad. Sure, they struggled, and I completely agree, but before we go condemning them, we can also look at our lousy run defense and poor coaching for the reasons our Safeties looked so bad (before we say they're both garbage).

Also, before anyone goes claiming I chose Polumalu for a reason, I'll just let you know that he is the first impact Safety that came to mind.

Euphoria · 04-29-2008, 04:12 PM

Stats are for losers.

You need to watch the games. See how they react and read the plays. Where are they when the ball is in the air and react to it. Did you see how many times MM was *****ing at them all season?

You can also argue the point they got so many tackles because they let the WR catch the ball so all left to be had was the tackle. We have up TO MANY BIG PLAYS. You stats don't show that.

Steelers doesn't use the Saftey position like we do so its a bad comparison. They actually put there best players in position to make plays. We send them out there to run around with their heads cut off.

04-29-2008, 01:58 AM	#1
saintfanatic Registered Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 35	Saftey Help I don't understand why the Saints have not addressed the need for help at Saftey. I know it is easy to say that corner was the biggest need after Jason David was exposed as a fraud but saftey needs to be upgraded as well. Sammy Knight is the last saftey that made a difference in N.O. Although he was run out of New Orleans (I think becasue of T. Sucky Jones) I still think he was the best saftey the Saints have put on the field in many years. Good news is I hear he is avalible again - Not sure but I think he is 82 now and has an arthritic hip so it would only be a slight upgrade. What are you thoughts on possible Saftey upgrades.
saintfanatic Registered Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 35

04-29-2008, 06:29 AM	#2
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saftey Help No way could we address all the defensive needs. I think they have tried but nothing worked out this year. Besides this is only the second full year they will playing together at SS and FS. with all the other changes we have made I think we can survive. Run support from the safety position will not be as big of a demand as it was last year. We may have to wait till 2009 to address it. Then again the way the saints have worked FA and the draft they may still have a move or two left in them.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

04-29-2008, 08:18 AM	#3
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: Saftey Help Are any safeties projected as cap casualties come June 1st?

04-29-2008, 09:18 AM	#4
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426	Re: Saftey Help I don't think our S position is that bad. I think this year they will look better with the D-line getting more pressure. The improvement will trickle down to the secondary.
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426

04-29-2008, 09:22 AM	#5
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Saftey Help Agreed. With the additions of Ellis and Vilma, they will not be asked to play as much in run support and that should help them in passing situations. Keep in mind that Harper is still young and has promise. Hopefully, if they open the spot for competition between Bullocks and KK, then we will see one or both of them step up their game and claim it.

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04-29-2008, 10:42 AM	#6
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: Saftey Help Now don't get me wrong, I am a huge Sammy Knight fan, but don't people remember how Knight and Bellamy got burned deep like every third play that one season? Knight was simply too slow to play in a Left-Right system, which is what we were building at the time. I was a bit surprised when we didn't try to pick up the S from Michigan as an UDFA, but we did get some kid. Last year in the offseason we brought in a lot of Safeties. Haper and Bullocks won the jobs. I'm convinced that with a better pass rush, as has been noted by many, our Safeties will be better. That said, I don't think either will ever be a star S. Of course, we don't need stars at every position. Bullocks has one more year of experience, so maybe he'll get a bit better - it isn't his fault that he didn't expect David to get burnt every play. I think Haper is a solid player. How much better do we need to at Saftey to (1) to win games, (2) to make the playoffs, (3) to win the SB? I'd guess the following: (1) we're good, (2) we're good, (3) that depends on what team we are playing and whether or not our offense can keep putting up the numbers. In all, I'd say that it isn't our Safeties, no matter how mediocre, that are the main stumbling block GIVEN how how team is constructed and how it has won games in the last two years. In fact, I'd be willing to bet health at LB and RB are going to be our main concerns. Secondarily, I'd guess that the constitution of our OL and its ability to gel as a unit is the next greatest concern.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

04-29-2008, 11:29 AM	#7
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: Saftey Help We still have Reiss (sp) on the roster. Haven't seen much of him, so I don't know what he brings. KK is better than Bullocks. Harper will get better, imo.

04-29-2008, 12:53 PM	#8
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saftey Help No the safties were bad, period. They were out of position, didn't make the proper breaks on deep passes and let the WR's get pass them. I know many of you like to drag Jason David through the mud but a lot of it needs to be placed on the coaches and the Safties as well. You don't bring in a cover 2 CB and say ok play man and here is a saftey to help you from time to time...wait a saftey who doesn't know what the hell he is doing. Jason David earned a SB ring. Reason: he had support and coaches who knew what the F they were doing. We are still going to have our short comings on D this coming year but at least we are taking the steps in the right direction. I agree Ellis is going to help a lot of areas look good at times but you can't fix everything in one offseason. But great strides were made and there will be improvement. If not Coaching staff days are numbered.
	E U P H O R I A

04-29-2008, 03:56 PM	#9
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: Saftey Help I agree that the coaches are partly responsible for David's getting hung out to dry. However, I disagree on your assessment of our Safeties. In 2004 and 2005, Troy Polamalu was a very good Safety. Those years, he averaged 94 tackles, 8 passes defended, and 4 picks. (He played all 16 games both seasons.) Last year, Harper had 90 tackles, 8 passes defended, and 3 picks (not to mention 4 sacks). Further, Bullocks had 77 tackles, 8 passes defended, and 2 picks. (And, he didn't play in two games.) Now, before anyone gets all "how dare you compare Polamalu" to our dou--bags, I'm not comparing them in terms of quality of player, I'm merely comparing them statistically. My conclusion, these Safeties weren't all THAT bad. Sure, they struggled, and I completely agree, but before we go condemning them, we can also look at our lousy run defense and poor coaching for the reasons our Safeties looked so bad (before we say they're both garbage). Also, before anyone goes claiming I chose Polumalu for a reason, I'll just let you know that he is the first impact Safety that came to mind.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

04-29-2008, 04:12 PM	#10
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saftey Help Stats are for losers. You need to watch the games. See how they react and read the plays. Where are they when the ball is in the air and react to it. Did you see how many times MM was *****ing at them all season? You can also argue the point they got so many tackles because they let the WR catch the ball so all left to be had was the tackle. We have up TO MANY BIG PLAYS. You stats don't show that. Steelers doesn't use the Saftey position like we do so its a bad comparison. They actually put there best players in position to make plays. We send them out there to run around with their heads cut off.
	E U P H O R I A