Jeremy Shockey
 

from the tp............

AROUND THE LEAGUE: League sources indicate the Saints' pursuit of Giants tight end Jeremy Shockey did not end when a draft-day deal between the clubs could not be reached. Coach Sean Payton believes Shockey is a perfect fit for the Saints' offense, and he still desperately wants the player to be wearing a black-and-gold uniform this season. Shockey has informed the Giants of his unhappiness, and apparently unwillingness, to play again in New York. Don't be surprised if the trade is finalized in the coming weeks. According to New York's Newsday, Shockey has four years remaining on his five-year, $26.3 million contract extension, including $1.9 million due this season. . . .

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

It just wont go away. Well lets see what happens. Vilmas trade has to be complicating things. this could be interesting

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do u think its a draft pick thats involved?...or do u think its personel?

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I wish this would go away. The Giants made it to the Superbowl without the distraction of Shockey last year, so I figure we don't need his drama or paycheck either. He has been inconsistent at best and gets hurt alot, why would we want him again?

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

Because the guy is a ProBowl player and he would add so much to our offense. His contract is cost/player friendly, and if you truly want to win a Superbowl, you need more players like Shockey to pull it off.

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

i agree....plus with his injury he would fit right in with our system lol....the giants werent better without him....the rest of their offense just had to step up cuz they knew shockey couldnt play....they didnt use him the right way in their offense ne way so he couldnt get to his full potential....shockey is a tight end that could make our offense better instantly...he would take a spy off reggie and i think he would quickly find himself in a position to be drews favorite target in our short pass offense....we run it better than ne body and with shockey it will only get better

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

If you think that Shockey is going to be happy being traded and keeping his current contract, then I have some lovely beachfront property in Kansas that I'd like to put up for sale.

As for winning the SB, Shockey has been a Giant for many years. Yet the year they win the SB, he didn't play.

Care to explain?

SFIAH

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

shockey will be happy because we will use him the way his talent suggests....he will be used immediately to open up our passing....the giants cant use his talent because they dont know how....while every team has some sort of short passing offense....its the saints that use it as their primary offense....shockey would thrive on this offense as he always has....shockey may want money...but hes a football player and he wants to be involved....he is looked at as a cancer but if we use him the way he needs to be...then he'll just sit back and enjoy the ride to our first SB

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

Lets see what do the giants need? OL is the only thing they did not address in the draft. Here we go again, Brown? Stinch & picks? They need a RT. They did not address it in FA or the draft.
So not only will shockey not go away but neither will the OT trade talks.

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do u think that one of our main guys would go or what about nicks?...u think we picked him up to deal him perhaps?

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I thought this was a pretty cogent argument for Shockey from an earlier post (before we go an discuss this all again):

As for a trade: I'd prefer to see us give up nothing higher than a 3rd from next year. However, if they're willing to take an OL, we have a few more than will make the roster. I'd be pro moving Stinch (to make room for some of the potential we've picked up in the last few drafts), but would they want him?

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

OT is the only area of our team thats MIGHT have the depth to afford a major hit. I do not see any other area we can really afford to do something and have the giants go for it. I am just not seeing it. Picks? #2 is in limbo with vilma. A mid round pick next year and a second in 2010? I am not seeing any other way but with a player. Or paying them a higher second pick to differ the higher pick till one year later.

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

actually our #2 isn't in limbo, it's our #3 apparently.

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Is it just me are is the quality of your post suffering lately, besides, I love beachfront property. What's available in Kansas anyway... lakefront I suppose?

The Giants won the Superbowl because of DEFENSE. Those guys stepped it up and took Brady out of his game. It's completely stupid to say that they won because Shockey wasn't playing. The guy is a stud player with a get me the ball attitude that many great WRs have. If you've never played, you might not understand. I love his attitude, and so does Payton.

As for Shockey's contract, it is what it is. I've never heard that he wants to restructure it or that's it a problem, so enough said.

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

This Shockey thing will not die . IMHO I hope it happens . A 2nd rd pick next year and a conditional mid round next year. Only problem is Vilma trade obligated that pick to the JETS. At this point a player trade and future considerations seem more likely . Who or What I don't know . I would think that Payton still has some ties with the NYG and knows that the Giants want to move Shockey

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

The whole "the Giants won because Shockey wasn't playing" argument holds no water whatsoever. What if Bush were to get hurt next year, and we made it to the playoffs? Would you say that the reason we made it was because he wasn't playing? You can't say it. Well you can, but it makes no sense.

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'New chapter' as Vilma dealt from Jets to Saints
By John Clayton
Updated: February 29, 2008, 10:53 PM ET
It was the first time in his football career that he had a season-ending injury. Now, four months removed from surgery, Vilma, was traded to the New Orleans Saints on Friday for a conditional fourth-round choice. The Jets could receive a second- or third-round pick in 2009 depending on how much Vilma plays and if he signs a contract extension. Talks have not started on a contract extension for Vilma, who is entering the final year of his rookie deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3270701
Call optimistic but I am hoping to get Vilma all year and signed. Thus loosing a 2nd.

Well we could sit him till Morgan gets his bell rung and hope the # of games is enough to keep our 2nd and fork over just a third. Just a dirty trick but what the heck.

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

No. Oceanfront. :D
I didn't say that they won because Shockey wasn't playing. I'm saying that they won despite the fact that Shockey didn't play. There's no reason to think that adding Shockey to the Saints are suddenly going to make them Superbowl favorites.

That's exactly my point.

You outlined my other point too. The Giants won because of defense. The Saints went to heroic measures this offseason to improve their defense. If they go deep into the playoffs this upcoming season it'll be because of the defensive improvements, not the addition of a TE.

The Saints have been #1 and #4 offense in the league the last two years without Shockey. Adding him just isn't going to make the offense that much better.

More importantly the issue of Shockey's addition to team chemistry needs to be addressed. The Saints simply don't have whining superstar divas on their team right now. And Shockey has been shown to be that at times.

But in our offense where Brees is going to distribute the ball around is that going to be helpful or harmful. If Shockey only gets 3 catches a game, albeit big catches, will he be satisfied?

Payton's offense isn't going to revolve around the TE. Shockey will not be either the leader nor the center of the Saints offense if he comes. Can he live with that? Can he live with the money in his current contract?

Frankly I'd rather have Billy Miller out there working hard, catching passes, and being a integral, productive part of the offense, than Shockey not being happy and therefore being disruptive.

Hmmmm.

Fantasy Players

SFIAH

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

It holds gallons of water. What proof do you need that we don't need him to win a SB? He didn't win it for NY. NY went on to win it without his crappy self-serving attitude. He wasn't even on the sidelines during the games.

Don't try and compare apples to oranges (SB or playoffs) but use the same situation if we win the SB without Bush you can easily say the same thing, whats wrong with that... it would be fact.

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

So does the assertion that the Saints need Shockey to win the SuperBowl, which was the original argument that foreverfan made.

The continued assertion is that the Saints need to get Shockey to be successful (with levels of successful from unstoppable offense to winning the Superbowl)

It has been and continues to be my assertion that for the Saints to be successful on offense all that needs to happen is for Brees to remain healthy and upright. He and he alone is the engine that makes this offense go.

I just don't believe that Shockey can be had for either the right price or the right attitude for this team. The Giants want a 1st round draft pick. Shockey is going to want to get paid. And he's a diva.

I don't care how talented he is. The compensation, money and attitude do not fit the Saints. I guess you guys have forgotten that a couple of years ago he called out his coach. A reminder:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2601690
I too wish that this story will die. I don't play fantasy football, so I really don't care about stats. Give me a tight end that will help the team win and not cause any problems.

Can anyone guarantee that Shockey will be that guy?

Good luck with that.

SFIAH

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actually the phrasing should be "THE GIANTS DIDN'T NEED SHOCKEY TO WIN THE SB". Which the follow up question should be "WHY DO WE NEED HIM IN ORDER TO WIN A SB"?

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Correct on both counts.

Thanks.

SFIAH

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the lack of sense this post makes is ridiculous. its just...staggering how idiotic it is holmes.

it really makes no sense to me. honestly. if the colts go to the superbowl, and lets say marvin harrison is injured in the afc championship and can't play in the big game and the colts still win, you can't say "WELL THEY DIDNT NEED HIM SO HES USELESS". they happened to win without shockey. that doesnt mean they got better when he stopped playing.

in this scenario, maybe they did get a little better because shockey is a guy who plays with emotion and has an ego and there was no leader in the giants lockerroom to guide him on the right path, but thatll change if he comes to the big easy.

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I bet Reggie Bush and Drew Brees want Shockey because he would instantly make them both better. Figure it out for yourselves cause I'm tired of typing.

This only thing that is important is that Payton wants him. Now if we could get an all pro LB or DE for the same price that we may get an all pro offensive player, I think we would all go for it.

Hey SFIAH, I have some beach front property in AZ I'll trade you for your beach front property in Kansas. Comes with a great desert view.

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

now, it is said as in the beginning.......
payton wants shockey...........
what part do some not understand........?
the saints hard nose coach wants shockey........
he does add a new demension.....
will it help, hender, or even come to past?
all i know is that the saints offense for the most part was lethargic against better teams or better defenses....so, what does that say?
we need angles, players that can give us those angles......
yes, the giants defense stunned brady, but their offense did equally well. and if you did not watch the game, go back and do it. they came through when they had to. if payton really does want shockey, i'm all for it because he will make us better, no doubt......
and for those that don't think they talked a lot about it, well, i believe they have, and know where each other stands. actually, the balls always been in the giants hands, but if the saints want him, it will get done......

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

From a talent standpoint you may be right. But that's not what I'm arguing.

Say we could get Antonio Gates. ProBowl Tight End. Worked with Brees. All around good guy.

No problem.

Truth is that if Shockey was the team player that everyone else on the Saints are, then the Giants wouldn't be shopping the guy.

It's important that the guy fits. The Giants price is too high. Shockey's attitude is too risky. So even though Payton may want him, he ain't coming here.

Glad you finally caught up. :D

SFIAH

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Thanks SFIAH you beat me too the punch. Yes, they won a superbowl without Shockey and he damn sure didn't help them get there because he was hurt again and who cares if he made the probowl, what are his numbers and contribution to the team? A big mouth with a big contract and thats it.

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Shockey won't have problems with the Saints.

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And this assessment is based exactly on what?

You have a guy that wants to leave the Superbowl champions.

You have a guy that complains that he's underutilized in an offense. He'll come to an offense where he's guaranteed to be underutilized.

You have a guy who is complaining about restructuring his contract after one year. ONE YEAR!

You have a guy that has thrown his own coach under a bus.

But yet in all he comes here and suddenly he'll be a choirboy.

Pray tell. Why?

SFIAH

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You're close. Why can't the Saints obtain some one like Antonio Pierce rather than Shockey? I don't know what either of them are "worth" but if the price is close to the same, give me more defense.

My point is that the Saints offense aint broke so don't fix it. The defense has been broken for years and the Saints have done a great job in attempting to repair it this off season so either quit while you are ahead or bring in more competition on defense.

I think that the point to be made about Shockey and the Giants is that the Giants offense seemed to play better after Shockey was out for the rest of the 2007 season. I am included with the group that thinks that there is a correlation there.

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http://i26.tinypic.com/affvqf.jpg

http://i17.tinypic.com/6bk07tg.jpg

http://i19.tinypic.com/5ymc1zl.jpg

Preach on Iceshack, preach on!

SFIAH

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We didnt need Vilma and Ellis to reach the conference championship game why did we get them? Of course the NFC championship game aint the SB but as a Saints fan it aint bad either. As a Saints fan could we be content ending a season before the SB is played since the Saints have never made it that far I was content with the NFC championship game. I think 2006 was a good year and it was enjoyable to watch them play football as a team.

I dont know how much enjoyment you will get as a Saints fan if they have to win a SB every year for it to be a good year. Yeah it will be nice to make it once but after we get there I hope we dont have to wait 30+ years for a repeat performance.

Shockey is an upgrade it would be hard to prove otherwise but at what cost do we get him for. If Payton wants him I hope he can hold out for the best possible deal and not sell the farm for him.

3 spots separate Shockey and Johnson in receptions. #8 & #11.

17 spots separate Shockey and Johnson in yardage. #7 & #24.

3 more yards were gained each pass by Shockey over Johnson. 10.9 & 7.9.

Re: payton wants shockey...................
 

shockey will by no means be underutilized here....we pass more than run...because we can....because we are good at it....shockey will be key at catching short passes and bailing drew out when he needs it...shockey is one of the best TEs in the league and his production proves it....with a great QB behind the wheel...he will get his catches....he will be happy with his production

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the giants need a TE that blocks better than he catches....they are a run first team....shockey can block but is not a great blocker...he is better at catching and moving the ball....our offense is like a big house....our defense is like the neighbor thats rundown.....adding shockey would be like putting a big a-- pool in our backyard....it would make our offense so much better and then when the neighbors are sneaking into the pool....u can cut their yard and paint their house

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the giants are a different team....they use shockey but not the best way....we would use him the best way....they dont need him to win a SB because they have a great D and a good enough offense.....we have a great offense that would be near perfection if we got him and a poor D....getting shockey doesnt upgrade our D....but it will definitly help our scoring....we wont need as great of a defense because we will put even more points up on the board

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Which is something that Reggie, Deuce, Karney, Patton, Johnson, and Miller somehow don't do?
You may be right. Johnson and Miller combined for 74 catches last year. If they all go to Shockey, he may just be satisfied.

Maybe.

SFIAH

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The hell with Shockey! We have other places we need to use that money! I.E. Smith, Colston, and possibly P. Thomas and Vilma! Miller was more than serviceable last season and Johnson will perform better this season.

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the only player you listed that garners any real attention as a pass catcher is reggie.. the addition of shockey will cause the LBs to not be able to spy on reggie out of the backfield and will open up more holes in the flats and suck up the safetys allowing brees to attack down the field...

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I guess that's the reason that Johnson and Miller had 74 catches between them last year. Because no one paid any attention to them.

SFIAH