Shockey=Upgrade?

CantonLegend · 05-06-2008, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP

WHY do you think that Shockey has been such a loudmouth? Do you think he is just an ******* who has no ability or desire to be nice to anyone at anytime?

From what I have seen of Shockey, he IS an *******, but one who is typically (and unrepentantly) only an ******* to people who deserve it. The Giants have been screwed up for a while. Have you forgotten Tiki Barber? One of the "Nice Guys" of the league, and he didn't have a whole lot of good to say about the Giants' organization. I have heard grumbles from Strahan and so many other Giants in the last few years. Coughlin has been on the edge of getting fired for years. There was genuine surprise he didn't get fired before last season. The players on the team files a grievance with the NFL against Coughlin in his first training camp, so his boat has been rocking since he got there. And the only reason Eli got kind words around these boards before the playoffs was because he is Archie's son.

If Shockey was someplace stable like Carolina, Seattle, Tampa, Baltimore, etc. I would worry about his grumbling. He is NOT in a stable organization though. I don't see the problem.

If you imply that shockey is the cancer...or just flat out say it...and say he talks to much...and ruins teams....then take a look at TO....yes the biggest loud mouth in the NFL.....he has managed to make headlines on every team he's ever been on...and most of the time its not good....well guess what.....he landed on a team that uses him....a team that took him in and he doesnt hafta be the star....the best player on the team...i truely believe thats how shockey would fall....he would make our team much better...we would use him...and he would be happy....all it takes is the right system

Memnoch_TP · 05-06-2008, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

If you imply that shockey is the cancer...or just flat out say it...and say he talks to much...and ruins teams....then take a look at TO....yes the biggest loud mouth in the NFL.....he has managed to make headlines on every team he's ever been on...and most of the time its not good....well guess what.....he landed on a team that uses him....a team that took him in and he doesnt hafta be the star....the best player on the team...i truely believe thats how shockey would fall....he would make our team much better...we would use him...and he would be happy....all it takes is the right system

Amen. Lets look even deeper at T.O., lets look at motivation. He loves the attention? Yes, he probably does. That is kind of lagniappe for him though. He was there for the beginning of the fall of the 49'ers. If T.O. had been the cause of the Niners problems, they would be fixed now. They are not, his team was dysfunctional. The guys like T.O. and Shockey, like them are not, are the smoke that indicate a problem within an organization. They are the symptom of a problem, not the cause.

Moving on to the Eagles, T.O. was great his first year, and truly performed a herculean feat to play and perform in the Super Bowl. A Super Bowl he lost because his quarterback choked. McNabb did choke, too. He suddenly realized that the Eagle's string of NFC Championship losses suggest that McNabb is Big Money Choker.

I have seen guys who can whip your butt on a pool table all night long for $5 a rack, but you can clean them out in an hour for $50 a rack. McNabb is one of those guys. Top tier talent that is afraid of the view. T.O. knows he isn't getting younger, and a new QB was not an option in Philly, and he didn't think it possible to win it all in Philly. He got out the only way he could.

I'm not even defending their actions here, I'm just saying that these guys are this way for a reason. They don't start trouble, they announce it. We don't have that kind of trouble here. Therefore, we will have no problems with Shockey. We are not a problem organization.

Heck, think about Kyle Turley. Alot of people are mad at Turley, but it also turned out his observations about Haslett being a moron were pretty much dead-on. Don't lose sleep over having a smoke alarm because it might go off, as long as we make sure we don't leave the oven on all night we don't have to worry about it.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 05-06-2008, 05:19 AM

I'm going to snip to the punchlines...

Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP

The guys like T.O. and Shockey, like them are not, are the smoke that indicate a problem within an organization. They are the symptom of a problem, not the cause...

They don't start trouble, they announce it. We don't have that kind of trouble here. Therefore, we will have no problems with Shockey. We are not a problem organization.

How do we know that our Saints are not (your phrases, not mine) "big money chokers", "problem organization"? We have exactly one data point on big money games, the 2006 NFC championship game. Unfortunately we lost. I remember. I was there.

Second data point. The Giants climbed the mountain this year. 4 big money games on the road, went 4 for 4 including the ultimate prize. So where's the dysfunctional fire that makes Shockey want to get out of there so badly?

I'm been pointing out throughout this thread that the issue isn't about talent. From a talent standpoint Shockey is a huge upgrade.

But the Saints don't need a smoke alarm. A loudmouth who is trying to get out his current organization when they are at the pinnacle of the NFL.

I guess with T.O. you don't remember that first training camp under Parcells. Being on the sidelines in bike gear. The press conference shirtless in the driveway, the supposed suicide attempt and coverup. And this is with Dallas, a team that he supposedly likes.

Smoke alarm? Sounds like a train wreck to me.

Just talking about Shockey now is disruptive and the guy isn't even on our squad.

I just want to point out that all these teams that have acquired all these talented, yet dramatic players: T.O. (three times), Shockey, Chad Johnson, Moss (three times), PacMan (twice now), Vick have won exactly the same number of championships with these players that the Saints have: zero.

If talent alone won championships, then the Raiders would be champions every year. But it's been a long while since they've gotten there.

We don't need those types of guys. For every T.O. there's a Colston. For every Shockey there's an Antonio Gates. For every Vick, there's a Drew Brees. Talented guys that come in, work hard, make a difference, and don't create drama.

The Saints are a team full of those types of guys.

Let's keep it that way.

SFIAH

pakowitz · 05-04-2008, 10:24 PM

the same reason that any other teams shop one of their players.. he doesnt fit what theyare trying to do on offense and he doesnt get along with the head coach..

why are the eagles shopping lito sheppard? they would have an awesome secondary with him.. why get rid of him.. same reasoning applies

hagan714 · 05-05-2008, 06:59 AM

As of now I could careless about him. I need details on his cost. a second is to much. Look at the elite CB going for a second rounder. Do you guys think he is worth as much as them? Really?

View Poll Results: Would Shockey be an upgrade to our team?
Yes	25	86.21%
No	0	0%
something else?	4	13.79%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

05-06-2008, 01:07 AM	#1
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Shockey=Upgrade? Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP WHY do you think that Shockey has been such a loudmouth? Do you think he is just an ***** who has no ability or desire to be nice to anyone at anytime? From what I have seen of Shockey, he IS an ***, but one who is typically (and unrepentantly) only an ***** to people who deserve it. The Giants have been screwed up for a while. Have you forgotten Tiki Barber? One of the "Nice Guys" of the league, and he didn't have a whole lot of good to say about the Giants' organization. I have heard grumbles from Strahan and so many other Giants in the last few years. Coughlin has been on the edge of getting fired for years. There was genuine surprise he didn't get fired before last season. The players on the team files a grievance with the NFL against Coughlin in his first training camp, so his boat has been rocking since he got there. And the only reason Eli got kind words around these boards before the playoffs was because he is Archie's son. If Shockey was someplace stable like Carolina, Seattle, Tampa, Baltimore, etc. I would worry about his grumbling. He is NOT in a stable organization though. I don't see the problem. If you imply that shockey is the cancer...or just flat out say it...and say he talks to much...and ruins teams....then take a look at TO....yes the biggest loud mouth in the NFL.....he has managed to make headlines on every team he's ever been on...and most of the time its not good....well guess what.....he landed on a team that uses him....a team that took him in and he doesnt hafta be the star....the best player on the team...i truely believe thats how shockey would fall....he would make our team much better...we would use him...and he would be happy....all it takes is the right system
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

05-06-2008, 02:31 AM	#2
Memnoch_TP Logic Troll Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 565	Re: Shockey=Upgrade? Originally Posted by CantonLegend If you imply that shockey is the cancer...or just flat out say it...and say he talks to much...and ruins teams....then take a look at TO....yes the biggest loud mouth in the NFL.....he has managed to make headlines on every team he's ever been on...and most of the time its not good....well guess what.....he landed on a team that uses him....a team that took him in and he doesnt hafta be the star....the best player on the team...i truely believe thats how shockey would fall....he would make our team much better...we would use him...and he would be happy....all it takes is the right system Amen. Lets look even deeper at T.O., lets look at motivation. He loves the attention? Yes, he probably does. That is kind of lagniappe for him though. He was there for the beginning of the fall of the 49'ers. If T.O. had been the cause of the Niners problems, they would be fixed now. They are not, his team was dysfunctional. The guys like T.O. and Shockey, like them are not, are the smoke that indicate a problem within an organization. They are the symptom of a problem, not the cause. Moving on to the Eagles, T.O. was great his first year, and truly performed a herculean feat to play and perform in the Super Bowl. A Super Bowl he lost because his quarterback choked. McNabb did choke, too. He suddenly realized that the Eagle's string of NFC Championship losses suggest that McNabb is Big Money Choker. I have seen guys who can whip your butt on a pool table all night long for $5 a rack, but you can clean them out in an hour for $50 a rack. McNabb is one of those guys. Top tier talent that is afraid of the view. T.O. knows he isn't getting younger, and a new QB was not an option in Philly, and he didn't think it possible to win it all in Philly. He got out the only way he could. I'm not even defending their actions here, I'm just saying that these guys are this way for a reason. They don't start trouble, they announce it. We don't have that kind of trouble here. Therefore, we will have no problems with Shockey. We are not a problem organization. Heck, think about Kyle Turley. Alot of people are mad at Turley, but it also turned out his observations about Haslett being a moron were pretty much dead-on. Don't lose sleep over having a smoke alarm because it might go off, as long as we make sure we don't leave the oven on all night we don't have to worry about it.
	"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams.

05-06-2008, 05:19 AM	#3
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: Shockey=Upgrade? I'm going to snip to the punchlines... Originally Posted by Memnoch_TP The guys like T.O. and Shockey, like them are not, are the smoke that indicate a problem within an organization. They are the symptom of a problem, not the cause... They don't start trouble, they announce it. We don't have that kind of trouble here. Therefore, we will have no problems with Shockey. We are not a problem organization. How do we know that our Saints are not (your phrases, not mine) "big money chokers", "problem organization"? We have exactly one data point on big money games, the 2006 NFC championship game. Unfortunately we lost. I remember. I was there. Second data point. The Giants climbed the mountain this year. 4 big money games on the road, went 4 for 4 including the ultimate prize. So where's the dysfunctional fire that makes Shockey want to get out of there so badly? I'm been pointing out throughout this thread that the issue isn't about talent. From a talent standpoint Shockey is a huge upgrade. But the Saints don't need a smoke alarm. A loudmouth who is trying to get out his current organization when they are at the pinnacle of the NFL. I guess with T.O. you don't remember that first training camp under Parcells. Being on the sidelines in bike gear. The press conference shirtless in the driveway, the supposed suicide attempt and coverup. And this is with Dallas, a team that he supposedly likes. Smoke alarm? Sounds like a train wreck to me. Just talking about Shockey now is disruptive and the guy isn't even on our squad. I just want to point out that all these teams that have acquired all these talented, yet dramatic players: T.O. (three times), Shockey, Chad Johnson, Moss (three times), PacMan (twice now), Vick have won exactly the same number of championships with these players that the Saints have: zero. If talent alone won championships, then the Raiders would be champions every year. But it's been a long while since they've gotten there. We don't need those types of guys. For every T.O. there's a Colston. For every Shockey there's an Antonio Gates. For every Vick, there's a Drew Brees. Talented guys that come in, work hard, make a difference, and don't create drama. The Saints are a team full of those types of guys. Let's keep it that way. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

05-04-2008, 10:24 PM	#4
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Shockey=Upgrade? the same reason that any other teams shop one of their players.. he doesnt fit what theyare trying to do on offense and he doesnt get along with the head coach.. why are the eagles shopping lito sheppard? they would have an awesome secondary with him.. why get rid of him.. same reasoning applies

05-05-2008, 06:59 AM	#5
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Shockey=Upgrade? As of now I could careless about him. I need details on his cost. a second is to much. Look at the elite CB going for a second rounder. Do you guys think he is worth as much as them? Really?