So much critcizm-- So little Facts.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-04-2003, 05:27 PM

I have explained it every way I know how. It\'s obvious you don\'t get it. But let me try one more time.

Tickets = Money. Doesn\'t matter if they spit the money or not. They still get more money if they sell more tickets.

They hire a front office to put a winning team on the field first. They do not hire a front office with the number one goal of making money. They know that if they have a winning team they will make MORE money. They aslo know if they put a losing team on the field that they will NOT make as much money. Money does make the world go round. But there\'s a secret to making money in any business. You get a good staff and you sell a good product.

lumm0x · 09-04-2003, 05:34 PM

Paul Allen\'s reason for buying the Seahawks and the Trailblazers was publicly stated because he grew up in the area and those are the two teams he grew up watching. He admitted that he was never a huge sports fan, but wanted the teams to remain in their areas as a matter of local pride. The guy is a proven hutty philanthropist and throws huge sums of money into a variety of profitable and guaranteed non-profit ventures, but he made a huge coup with that new stadium. The place cost $400 M to create and he kicked $50 M of that out of his pocket. He owns the stadium now and along with the team and is in a huge drivers seat as far as NFL ownership goes.

He is frivolous but not stupid.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-04-2003, 05:38 PM

LummOx -- I don\'t know what that has to do with what we\'re talking about. But -- you are right.

lumm0x · 09-04-2003, 05:47 PM

What the had to do with it was that as a businessman and avid real estate prospector, Allen saw an opportunity to cheaply (out of his money) design, build and own both the Seahawks stadium and the Portland Rose Garden for a fraction of the true costs, all in the name of \"local sports pride\". He has acquired more than a half billion in assets for just under half of that in expenditures. Business????? I don\'t care if he was dealing with NFL football ownership or Taco Bell shares......it was a financial decision to buy the Hawks and Blazers....the local pride was the means to the end.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-04-2003, 05:51 PM

LummOx-- Let me get you to make a stand here.

Do you beleive that a GM is hired to make money as his # 1 goal or put a winning team on the field.

Do you disagree with me when I say that Winning = MORE money.

Do you disagree with me when I say Losing = Less money.

Just want to know where you stand??

lumm0x · 09-04-2003, 05:59 PM

A GM is hired to effectively run an owners business. Regardless of the type of business. So a GM is gauged on his ability to do that. Fortunately the owner has to answer to a multitude of fans and the media that will destroy his reputation and personal image if he openly runs a team into the ground to pocket cash. But...
Winning=more potential money so the GM is asked to win with the least money spent outside of the cap and the best product within the cap
Losing does not always equal less money because regardless of ticket sales or television appearances we get an equal share of those revenues, so our direct correlation to the amount is only 1/32 in our control. But, like WhoDat said you can be a 3-13 team and have the most marketable player in the NFL and capitalize on huge revenue.

My stance....the NFL is a business, but the client base is so huge it cannot be operated like a normal business. Owners buy these teams for the \"face time\" they get both locally and nationally, and use this venture as a springboard for others.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-04-2003, 06:02 PM

LummOx -- I agree with everything you just said, as I usually do.

However -- mine and WhoDat\'s arguement was what is the biggest reason a NFL GM is hired. To make money or put a winning team together?

JOESAM2002 · 09-04-2003, 06:58 PM

GM may not own a team but Ford does. Or am I wrong about Ford Field? Salary Cap only has to do with player salaries. These guys wish that was the only expenses they had to worry about. The NFL as are other pro sports are BIG business. Winning does have everything to do with the amount of money you make as an owner but so do many other things. If that weren\'t the case why in hell would Benson and the state go toe to toe all the time wanting more money. Because New Orleans is a small market area and the people of the area have very little income. Little income= less spending. Less spending= less profits. Thats the way business works. Sorry guys just had to do that. Business 101 class starts tomorrow at 1 P.M.

FWtex · 09-04-2003, 07:49 PM

I am piping in on this one.

1. NFL owners make a ton of money each year. The profits come from TV rights. Salaries are paid from ticket sales and other fluff money.
2. If anyone believes Jerry Jones and Al Davis when they say they don\'t make money ... well you\'re ... Why would the cinn owner refuse to sell?
3. A corporation cannot have any ownership in an NFL team. Owners cannot comingle their NFL franchise with any other business they may own. See eddie debatolo problems back in the early 90\'s I think it was.
4. The GM\'s responsibilities varies from team to team. If you think Matt Millen is responsible for seeing the owner makes his profits your nuts. Millen is a football guy not a businessman.
5. You only hear benson talk about financial issues because the business side is his responsibility. The day I hear him try to talk football is the day I will die laughing my azz off. LOL
6. If you asked any owner if he would take less profit for a superbowl trophy they would all say yes ... and mean it. Thus wining and making money run 1a and 1b ... I think they are somewhat interchangeable.
7. New stadiums are about luxury suites and building a teams(owners) net worth via public assistance. The very rich mans welfare ... its a hell of a gig and i wish it was me.

lumm0x · 09-04-2003, 08:00 PM

Well Billy, my answer then to your arguement is the same as FWTex.....1a-winning, 1b making money.

winning-50.0000001
making money-49.9999999

09-04-2003, 05:27 PM	#21
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. I have explained it every way I know how. It\'s obvious you don\'t get it. But let me try one more time. Tickets = Money. Doesn\'t matter if they spit the money or not. They still get more money if they sell more tickets. They hire a front office to put a winning team on the field first. They do not hire a front office with the number one goal of making money. They know that if they have a winning team they will make MORE money. They aslo know if they put a losing team on the field that they will NOT make as much money. Money does make the world go round. But there\'s a secret to making money in any business. You get a good staff and you sell a good product.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-04-2003, 05:34 PM	#22
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. Paul Allen\'s reason for buying the Seahawks and the Trailblazers was publicly stated because he grew up in the area and those are the two teams he grew up watching. He admitted that he was never a huge sports fan, but wanted the teams to remain in their areas as a matter of local pride. The guy is a proven hutty philanthropist and throws huge sums of money into a variety of profitable and guaranteed non-profit ventures, but he made a huge coup with that new stadium. The place cost $400 M to create and he kicked $50 M of that out of his pocket. He owns the stadium now and along with the team and is in a huge drivers seat as far as NFL ownership goes. He is frivolous but not stupid.

09-04-2003, 05:38 PM	#23
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. LummOx -- I don\'t know what that has to do with what we\'re talking about. But -- you are right.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-04-2003, 05:47 PM	#24
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. What the had to do with it was that as a businessman and avid real estate prospector, Allen saw an opportunity to cheaply (out of his money) design, build and own both the Seahawks stadium and the Portland Rose Garden for a fraction of the true costs, all in the name of \"local sports pride\". He has acquired more than a half billion in assets for just under half of that in expenditures. Business????? I don\'t care if he was dealing with NFL football ownership or Taco Bell shares......it was a financial decision to buy the Hawks and Blazers....the local pride was the means to the end.

09-04-2003, 05:51 PM	#25
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. LummOx-- Let me get you to make a stand here. Do you beleive that a GM is hired to make money as his # 1 goal or put a winning team on the field. Do you disagree with me when I say that Winning = MORE money. Do you disagree with me when I say Losing = Less money. Just want to know where you stand??
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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09-04-2003, 05:59 PM	#26
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. A GM is hired to effectively run an owners business. Regardless of the type of business. So a GM is gauged on his ability to do that. Fortunately the owner has to answer to a multitude of fans and the media that will destroy his reputation and personal image if he openly runs a team into the ground to pocket cash. But... Winning=more potential money so the GM is asked to win with the least money spent outside of the cap and the best product within the cap Losing does not always equal less money because regardless of ticket sales or television appearances we get an equal share of those revenues, so our direct correlation to the amount is only 1/32 in our control. But, like WhoDat said you can be a 3-13 team and have the most marketable player in the NFL and capitalize on huge revenue. My stance....the NFL is a business, but the client base is so huge it cannot be operated like a normal business. Owners buy these teams for the \"face time\" they get both locally and nationally, and use this venture as a springboard for others.

09-04-2003, 06:02 PM	#27
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. LummOx -- I agree with everything you just said, as I usually do. However -- mine and WhoDat\'s arguement was what is the biggest reason a NFL GM is hired. To make money or put a winning team together?
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-04-2003, 06:58 PM	#28
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. GM may not own a team but Ford does. Or am I wrong about Ford Field? Salary Cap only has to do with player salaries. These guys wish that was the only expenses they had to worry about. The NFL as are other pro sports are BIG business. Winning does have everything to do with the amount of money you make as an owner but so do many other things. If that weren\'t the case why in hell would Benson and the state go toe to toe all the time wanting more money. Because New Orleans is a small market area and the people of the area have very little income. Little income= less spending. Less spending= less profits. Thats the way business works. Sorry guys just had to do that. Business 101 class starts tomorrow at 1 P.M.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

09-04-2003, 07:49 PM	#29
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. I am piping in on this one. 1. NFL owners make a ton of money each year. The profits come from TV rights. Salaries are paid from ticket sales and other fluff money. 2. If anyone believes Jerry Jones and Al Davis when they say they don\'t make money ... well you\'re ... Why would the cinn owner refuse to sell? 3. A corporation cannot have any ownership in an NFL team. Owners cannot comingle their NFL franchise with any other business they may own. See eddie debatolo problems back in the early 90\'s I think it was. 4. The GM\'s responsibilities varies from team to team. If you think Matt Millen is responsible for seeing the owner makes his profits your nuts. Millen is a football guy not a businessman. 5. You only hear benson talk about financial issues because the business side is his responsibility. The day I hear him try to talk football is the day I will die laughing my azz off. LOL 6. If you asked any owner if he would take less profit for a superbowl trophy they would all say yes ... and mean it. Thus wining and making money run 1a and 1b ... I think they are somewhat interchangeable. 7. New stadiums are about luxury suites and building a teams(owners) net worth via public assistance. The very rich mans welfare ... its a hell of a gig and i wish it was me.
FWtex 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 370

09-04-2003, 08:00 PM	#30
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	So much critcizm-- So little Facts. Well Billy, my answer then to your arguement is the same as FWTex.....1a-winning, 1b making money. winning-50.0000001 making money-49.9999999