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#1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 One thing I'd like to add is that the Saints MUST run the football well to win. Our success running vs AZ helped win that game. (171yds) It'll be a tough task, bc MINN's run D ...

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Old 01-19-2010, 08:38 PM   #1
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
One thing I'd like to add is that the Saints MUST run the football well to win.

Our success running vs AZ helped win that game. (171yds)

It'll be a tough task, bc MINN's run D has looked good recently and especially against Dallas' RB's.

Paging Willie Roaf...
I agree 100%. We have got to get the run game going. That's what opened up that flea flicker against the red birds. As well as the rest of our passing game.

I say, screen, screen, screen... Back those LBs up, as well as those DEs.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:30 AM   #2
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

I get tired of hearing about our defense rank. The majority of that is been amplified because teams get extremely aggressive trying to come back. Also, we have had a ton of injuries on the defensive side of the football. Another thing, is when the offense of a team scores quickly, like what happens in a pass happy offense, the other team gets the ball more. Not making excuses, just stating the obvious.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:13 PM   #3
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

No excuses from me. To the game........
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:53 PM   #4
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Originally Posted by Vike4Life View Post
Saints have the best offense bar none. Pass and run great. But they are facing the Vikings D that's darn good ranked #6. Great rushing D to force teams to become one dimensional. One of the best pass rushes to pressure QBs. There won't be 6 seconds and 4 yard pockets like the Cards gave Brees.

Whereas, the Saints D is ranked #25, not good at much except INT's. Most of those INT's came against inexperienced QB's Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, Henne, and Ryan. Favre has protected the ball all year, so I don't think he's going to collapse against the Saints. I imagine the Saints will stick 8 in the box, like all other teams, so they can stop Peterson. So Rice or Berrian will be singled, which the Cowboys learned was stupid. Vikes live by "damn if you do... damn if you don't"... play the pass the run burns you... play the run and the pass burns you.

As I see it the Vikes Offense is not that far behind the Saints, whereas the Saints D is seriously lacking.

Please bring the excuses...

O.K. You asked for it. First, I will pose a question to you. Do you think Kurt Warner and his receivers are slouches? Before you answer that and make your own excuses, you may want to look back and see what they did to your beloved Vikings about a month or so ago. See what happened when they played us with a HEALTHY secondary? Not very much. Jabari Greer was 2nd to ONLY Darelle Revis in percentage of getting burned. The Saints starting corners of Greer and Porter have allowed only ONE TD pass against them all year. If you don't know who they are, make yourself acquainted with them, because they will be on your boys all game long....and it will be man-on-man. I stated in another thread a couple of days ago that if the Saints can shut down arguably THE BEST WR IN FOOTBALL, what makes anyone think that they can't shut down Sidney "I wish my name was Jerry" Rice, Bernard "Damn, I stole a lot of money on that contract" Berrian, or Percy "Sledge" Harvin? With those two in the line-up, that allows Sharper (the man Minnesota thought was washed up) to play center field and be a playmaker like he does best. Add a guy who can really bring the lumber in Roman Harper, and I would take our secondary over yours any day of the week. The #25 ranking is skewed because early in the season, teams were having to play from behind, so they passed the ball. Later in the season, the Saints were playing with a lot of injured starters on defense. Most important the starting corners. Even our third corner was banged up with injuries (hamstring, concussion). That left us with a rookie corner and two guys signed off the street. Our depth was exposed. Not our defense. You saw what happened to the Cards when we had our top three corners healthy. They sure didn't do very much.

Secondly, putting Ryan in that category with the "un-experienced" QB's is just asinine, and shows that you aren't aware how good of a QB is is after on two years. He scares the living crap out of me knowing that he is in our division for several years to come. And about Stafford, didn't you guys play them twice? Also, let's run down the list of "inexperienced" QB's you guys played this year. Derrick Anderson (horrible), Stafford (twice), Shaun Hill (he almost beat you guys in your own place), Joe Flacco (since you wanted to put Ryan in the mix, and he's not as good as Ryan), Matt Moore (lit you guys up like a Christmas tree), and Jay Cutler (picked you guys apart after a HORRIBLE year). You might want to do some more research before you start talking your boys up.

I give the Vikings a lot of credit for having a great defensive line, but then again, they have yet to see a line like the Saints. Probably the most underrated line in football. One All-Pro, Two Pro-Bowlers, and two alternates to the Pro Bowl. The only person on that line that worries me is Bushrod, but Coach Payton learned from the Cowboys game not to leave him alone against an elite pass-rusher. He will get help from the tight ends and running backs. I honestly think that Jared Allen is a bit overrated, though. Sure, he had 14.5 sacks, but 7.5 of those came against that Packers line that got Rodgers sacked 50 times this year. I'm not saying he's not good, but I'm saying he may not be as good as everyone thinks he is.

You imagine the Saints will put 8 in the box? You are imagining wrong. Gregg Williams will be putting in all different kinds of packages to throw Favre off his game. If he can do that against the likes of Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Kurt Warner and make them look average at best, who says that he won't do it against Favre, as well. There will be a game plan and packages on Sunday that the Saints haven't even used this season. They pulled some new ones out against the Cards, and they will do the same thing against the Vikings.

In short, there are a lot of things you aren't seeing in this Saints' team that needed to be pointed out.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:18 PM   #5
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Originally Posted by D_it_up View Post
O.K. You asked for it. First, I will pose a question to you. Do you think Kurt Warner and his receivers are slouches? Before you answer that and make your own excuses, you may want to look back and see what they did to your beloved Vikings about a month or so ago. See what happened when they played us with a HEALTHY secondary? Not very much. Jabari Greer was 2nd to ONLY Darelle Revis in percentage of getting burned. The Saints starting corners of Greer and Porter have allowed only ONE TD pass against them all year. If you don't know who they are, make yourself acquainted with them, because they will be on your boys all game long....and it will be man-on-man. I stated in another thread a couple of days ago that if the Saints can shut down arguably THE BEST WR IN FOOTBALL, what makes anyone think that they can't shut down Sidney "I wish my name was Jerry" Rice, Bernard "Damn, I stole a lot of money on that contract" Berrian, or Percy "Sledge" Harvin? With those two in the line-up, that allows Sharper (the man Minnesota thought was washed up) to play center field and be a playmaker like he does best. Add a guy who can really bring the lumber in Roman Harper, and I would take our secondary over yours any day of the week. The #25 ranking is skewed because early in the season, teams were having to play from behind, so they passed the ball. Later in the season, the Saints were playing with a lot of injured starters on defense. Most important the starting corners. Even our third corner was banged up with injuries (hamstring, concussion). That left us with a rookie corner and two guys signed off the street. Our depth was exposed. Not our defense. You saw what happened to the Cards when we had our top three corners healthy. They sure didn't do very much.

Secondly, putting Ryan in that category with the "un-experienced" QB's is just asinine, and shows that you aren't aware how good of a QB is is after on two years. He scares the living crap out of me knowing that he is in our division for several years to come. And about Stafford, didn't you guys play them twice? Also, let's run down the list of "inexperienced" QB's you guys played this year. Derrick Anderson (horrible), Stafford (twice), Shaun Hill (he almost beat you guys in your own place), Joe Flacco (since you wanted to put Ryan in the mix, and he's not as good as Ryan), Matt Moore (lit you guys up like a Christmas tree), and Jay Cutler (picked you guys apart after a HORRIBLE year). You might want to do some more research before you start talking your boys up.

I give the Vikings a lot of credit for having a great defensive line, but then again, they have yet to see a line like the Saints. Probably the most underrated line in football. One All-Pro, Two Pro-Bowlers, and two alternates to the Pro Bowl. The only person on that line that worries me is Bushrod, but Coach Payton learned from the Cowboys game not to leave him alone against an elite pass-rusher. He will get help from the tight ends and running backs. I honestly think that Jared Allen is a bit overrated, though. Sure, he had 14.5 sacks, but 7.5 of those came against that Packers line that got Rodgers sacked 50 times this year. I'm not saying he's not good, but I'm saying he may not be as good as everyone thinks he is.

You imagine the Saints will put 8 in the box? You are imagining wrong. Gregg Williams will be putting in all different kinds of packages to throw Favre off his game. If he can do that against the likes of Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Kurt Warner and make them look average at best, who says that he won't do it against Favre, as well. There will be a game plan and packages on Sunday that the Saints haven't even used this season. They pulled some new ones out against the Cards, and they will do the same thing against the Vikings.

In short, there are a lot of things you aren't seeing in this Saints' team that needed to be pointed out.


It's funny how people saw us "tail off" towards the end of the season and pretend they know what our defense is about. As many have mentioned, a lot of our core/key players were on the mend... which definitely skewed our defensive standings. That said, I believe we had the best scoring defense in the league and forced a boat load of turnovers. Anyone can tell you that if you win the turnover battle, the likelihood of winning the game is greater than 70% (I think it's actually much higher). One other thing I'd like to mention is that when the Colts won the Superbowl, they had one of the worst defensive units during the regular season yet dominated in the postseason... which is all that matters. So as much as you want to brag about your regular season rankings, that stuff means absolutely means jack squat.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

All little common sense goes a long way.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:20 PM   #6
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Originally Posted by papz View Post


So as much as you want to brag about your regular season rankings, that stuff means absolutely means jack squat.
Or as Drew Brees said in an interview a couple of weeks ago, "it doesn't mean twat".
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:08 AM   #7
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Originally Posted by papz View Post


It's funny how people saw us "tail off" towards the end of the season and pretend they know what our defense is about. As many have mentioned, a lot of our core/key players were on the mend... which definitely skewed our defensive standings. That said, I believe we had the best scoring defense in the league and forced a boat load of turnovers. Anyone can tell you that if you win the turnover battle, the likelihood of winning the game is greater than 70% (I think it's actually much higher). One other thing I'd like to mention is that when the Colts won the Superbowl, they had one of the worst defensive units during the regular season yet dominated in the postseason... which is all that matters. So as much as you want to brag about your regular season rankings, that stuff means absolutely means jack squat.
Home teams that win the turnover battle in the playoffs have won 95% of the games according to a stat I heard a couple of weeks ago on the NFLN.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:14 AM   #8
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Originally Posted by D_it_up View Post
O.K. You asked for it. First, I will pose a question to you. Do you think Kurt Warner and his receivers are slouches? Before you answer that and make your own excuses, you may want to look back and see what they did to your beloved Vikings about a month or so ago. See what happened when they played us with a HEALTHY secondary? Not very much. Jabari Greer was 2nd to ONLY Darelle Revis in percentage of getting burned. The Saints starting corners of Greer and Porter have allowed only ONE TD pass against them all year. If you don't know who they are, make yourself acquainted with them, because they will be on your boys all game long....and it will be man-on-man. I stated in another thread a couple of days ago that if the Saints can shut down arguably THE BEST WR IN FOOTBALL, what makes anyone think that they can't shut down Sidney "I wish my name was Jerry" Rice, Bernard "Damn, I stole a lot of money on that contract" Berrian, or Percy "Sledge" Harvin? With those two in the line-up, that allows Sharper (the man Minnesota thought was washed up) to play center field and be a playmaker like he does best. Add a guy who can really bring the lumber in Roman Harper, and I would take our secondary over yours any day of the week. The #25 ranking is skewed because early in the season, teams were having to play from behind, so they passed the ball. Later in the season, the Saints were playing with a lot of injured starters on defense. Most important the starting corners. Even our third corner was banged up with injuries (hamstring, concussion). That left us with a rookie corner and two guys signed off the street. Our depth was exposed. Not our defense. You saw what happened to the Cards when we had our top three corners healthy. They sure didn't do very much.

Secondly, putting Ryan in that category with the "un-experienced" QB's is just asinine, and shows that you aren't aware how good of a QB is is after on two years. He scares the living crap out of me knowing that he is in our division for several years to come. And about Stafford, didn't you guys play them twice? Also, let's run down the list of "inexperienced" QB's you guys played this year. Derrick Anderson (horrible), Stafford (twice), Shaun Hill (he almost beat you guys in your own place), Joe Flacco (since you wanted to put Ryan in the mix, and he's not as good as Ryan), Matt Moore (lit you guys up like a Christmas tree), and Jay Cutler (picked you guys apart after a HORRIBLE year). You might want to do some more research before you start talking your boys up.

I give the Vikings a lot of credit for having a great defensive line, but then again, they have yet to see a line like the Saints. Probably the most underrated line in football. One All-Pro, Two Pro-Bowlers, and two alternates to the Pro Bowl. The only person on that line that worries me is Bushrod, but Coach Payton learned from the Cowboys game not to leave him alone against an elite pass-rusher. He will get help from the tight ends and running backs. I honestly think that Jared Allen is a bit overrated, though. Sure, he had 14.5 sacks, but 7.5 of those came against that Packers line that got Rodgers sacked 50 times this year. I'm not saying he's not good, but I'm saying he may not be as good as everyone thinks he is.

You imagine the Saints will put 8 in the box? You are imagining wrong. Gregg Williams will be putting in all different kinds of packages to throw Favre off his game. If he can do that against the likes of Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Kurt Warner and make them look average at best, who says that he won't do it against Favre, as well. There will be a game plan and packages on Sunday that the Saints haven't even used this season. They pulled some new ones out against the Cards, and they will do the same thing against the Vikings.

In short, there are a lot of things you aren't seeing in this Saints' team that needed to be pointed out.
Excellent post!
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:10 PM   #9
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Originally Posted by D_it_up View Post
O.K. You asked for it. First, I will pose a question to you. Do you think Kurt Warner and his receivers are slouches? Before you answer that and make your own excuses, you may want to look back and see what they did to your beloved Vikings about a month or so ago. See what happened when they played us with a HEALTHY secondary? Not very much. Jabari Greer was 2nd to ONLY Darelle Revis in percentage of getting burned. The Saints starting corners of Greer and Porter have allowed only ONE TD pass against them all year. If you don't know who they are, make yourself acquainted with them, because they will be on your boys all game long....and it will be man-on-man. I stated in another thread a couple of days ago that if the Saints can shut down arguably THE BEST WR IN FOOTBALL, what makes anyone think that they can't shut down Sidney "I wish my name was Jerry" Rice, Bernard "Damn, I stole a lot of money on that contract" Berrian, or Percy "Sledge" Harvin? With those two in the line-up, that allows Sharper (the man Minnesota thought was washed up) to play center field and be a playmaker like he does best. Add a guy who can really bring the lumber in Roman Harper, and I would take our secondary over yours any day of the week. The #25 ranking is skewed because early in the season, teams were having to play from behind, so they passed the ball. Later in the season, the Saints were playing with a lot of injured starters on defense. Most important the starting corners. Even our third corner was banged up with injuries (hamstring, concussion). That left us with a rookie corner and two guys signed off the street. Our depth was exposed. Not our defense. You saw what happened to the Cards when we had our top three corners healthy. They sure didn't do very much.

Secondly, putting Ryan in that category with the "un-experienced" QB's is just asinine, and shows that you aren't aware how good of a QB is is after on two years. He scares the living crap out of me knowing that he is in our division for several years to come. And about Stafford, didn't you guys play them twice? Also, let's run down the list of "inexperienced" QB's you guys played this year. Derrick Anderson (horrible), Stafford (twice), Shaun Hill (he almost beat you guys in your own place), Joe Flacco (since you wanted to put Ryan in the mix, and he's not as good as Ryan), Matt Moore (lit you guys up like a Christmas tree), and Jay Cutler (picked you guys apart after a HORRIBLE year). You might want to do some more research before you start talking your boys up.

I give the Vikings a lot of credit for having a great defensive line, but then again, they have yet to see a line like the Saints. Probably the most underrated line in football. One All-Pro, Two Pro-Bowlers, and two alternates to the Pro Bowl. The only person on that line that worries me is Bushrod, but Coach Payton learned from the Cowboys game not to leave him alone against an elite pass-rusher. He will get help from the tight ends and running backs. I honestly think that Jared Allen is a bit overrated, though. Sure, he had 14.5 sacks, but 7.5 of those came against that Packers line that got Rodgers sacked 50 times this year. I'm not saying he's not good, but I'm saying he may not be as good as everyone thinks he is.

You imagine the Saints will put 8 in the box? You are imagining wrong. Gregg Williams will be putting in all different kinds of packages to throw Favre off his game. If he can do that against the likes of Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Kurt Warner and make them look average at best, who says that he won't do it against Favre, as well. There will be a game plan and packages on Sunday that the Saints haven't even used this season. They pulled some new ones out against the Cards, and they will do the same thing against the Vikings.

In short, there are a lot of things you aren't seeing in this Saints' team that needed to be pointed out.
Thanks for a detailed response, you make several good points... In rebuttal I'll try to be quick:

#1 You shouldn't bring up specific games like the Cards as Dallas and TAMPA will come to mind. Both in NO.
#2 I know your DB's are good that's why the Vikes will be running the ball, throwing to TE's, RB's, until Favre sees a opening, like he did against Dallas
#3 Ryan is 2nd year has 22TD and 14INT's and a 81 rating... not a top notch guy IMO.
#4 I never said the Vikes secondary was stellar, it's the Vikes biggest weakness, which hopefully the pass rush will help out.
#5 Allen's stats are good since he's doubled most of the time. But Edwards and K. Williams are coming on too.
#6 8 in the box isn't to stop Favre it's to contain Peterson. If you don't you will be sorry.

BTW, in the Cards game Winfield was out and starting MLB Henderson broke his leg during the game, putting in a 5th round rookie to replace him. Had a lot to do with the loss.

Thanks for the debate, it's why I'm here.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:02 PM   #10
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Re: #1 O vs #6 D and #5 O vs #25 D Who wins?

Hmmm - Are their Saints fans heading onto Viks fan pages. I have always thought this concept weird.

To me it shows a lack of belief in ones' team. (so in your case the Viks)

Stats are meaningless at this point. Both teams rested - both teams hungry. Let the chips fall where they may.
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