2010 NFL Draft

BRSaintsFan · 02-25-2010, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan

There is no such thing as a pure BPA draft method. If Jimmy Clausen falls to 32, no we should not taking him. But I think by BPA, you are looking, as you said, for the best player available than would be an upgrade. On the flip side, if Dez Bryant magically falls to 32, do you draft him? I say hell yeah. Do we need another receiever? No, but the value of that player at the spot we draft is too great not to take him and he would be an upgrade. I think this is how the Saints will approach the draft. They will be thinking defensive front 7, but if someone falls and even though the player is not at a "need" position, would be an upgrade, then they draft him.

Im a little confused when you say pure DE. I see the D line divided into a few groups: conventional 4-3 end, conventional 4-3 DTs, 3-4 rush LBs, 3-4 ends, and NT. Everson Griffen would be someone I consider a conventional 4-3 end. Brian Price a conventional 4-3 tackle. Brandon Graham a 3-4 rush LB. Jared Odrick a 3-4 end. Terrence Cody a NT. I feel a Carlos Dunlap could play a 4-3 end or a 3-4 end. Suh and McCoy could play a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end. Dan Williams as a 4-3 tackle or a 3-4 NT. Can someone explain to me the differences between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, 4-3 under tackle? This is where I get lost.

My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle.

stockman311 · 02-25-2010, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan

My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle.

Completely false. We drafted Darren Howard at spot 33 I believe. He was an immediate starter. Drafted Colston in round 7 and he was an immediate starter. The round or spot a player is drafted has little to no bearing on if he will start and turn into a star. In fact, the numbers have been run and it just so happens that second rounders play longer and at a higher level historically than do first rounders.

As to the previous post, if hypothetically the Saints drafted Dez Bryant at 32 before attempting to trade down with a team in the top of round 2 first, I would consider it a wasted pick as we are loaded at WR.

The truth is teams have various needs, so when they say BPA they really mean BPA at one of the various needs the team has. Our needs are clearly DE, DT, at OLB, S or CB if sharper leaves depending on what the team does with Jenkins.

BRSaintsFan · 02-25-2010, 04:24 PM

I would need to see the stats on it because I consider guys like Colston anomalies. Of the past 5 players selected at 32, only 1 was a full time starter their rookie season (Logan Mankins). The others all contributed but were not starters. The point is not that anyone drafted at 32 can not be a starter (Drew Brees was a #32 pick), but rather I do not think that you are banking on your draft pick at 32 to start and produce their rookie season. Not saying it wont happen or doesnt happen, but I dont think you are envisioning your draft pick at 32 coming onto a Super Bowl winning roster and outplaying someone for a starting spot.

I agree we are stacked at WR, but if a talent falls that far then you draft him. You seriously cant tell me that if a top 10 non QB talent falls to you at pick 32, you are going to pass him to fill a need with a player that is at best the 4th best at his position in the draft. If a player can provide an upgrade for your team and you have him valued much greater than any other player left on your draft board, you take that player rather than reach for someone whose value is not as high as the draft slot you are picking in.

I agree and would prefer to see us draft DE or DT or even a young LB, but if the best left are Ricky Sapp, Arthur Jones, and Eric Norwood and the Saints have a player they ranked much higher than 32 on their draft board that falls even though he doesn't fill a perceived need, I would rather see them take that player than pull an Al Davis Oakland Raider reach.

02-25-2010, 02:15 PM	#1
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan There is no such thing as a pure BPA draft method. If Jimmy Clausen falls to 32, no we should not taking him. But I think by BPA, you are looking, as you said, for the best player available than would be an upgrade. On the flip side, if Dez Bryant magically falls to 32, do you draft him? I say hell yeah. Do we need another receiever? No, but the value of that player at the spot we draft is too great not to take him and he would be an upgrade. I think this is how the Saints will approach the draft. They will be thinking defensive front 7, but if someone falls and even though the player is not at a "need" position, would be an upgrade, then they draft him. Im a little confused when you say pure DE. I see the D line divided into a few groups: conventional 4-3 end, conventional 4-3 DTs, 3-4 rush LBs, 3-4 ends, and NT. Everson Griffen would be someone I consider a conventional 4-3 end. Brian Price a conventional 4-3 tackle. Brandon Graham a 3-4 rush LB. Jared Odrick a 3-4 end. Terrence Cody a NT. I feel a Carlos Dunlap could play a 4-3 end or a 3-4 end. Suh and McCoy could play a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end. Dan Williams as a 4-3 tackle or a 3-4 NT. Can someone explain to me the differences between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, 4-3 under tackle? This is where I get lost. My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle.

02-25-2010, 02:23 PM	#2
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle. Completely false. We drafted Darren Howard at spot 33 I believe. He was an immediate starter. Drafted Colston in round 7 and he was an immediate starter. The round or spot a player is drafted has little to no bearing on if he will start and turn into a star. In fact, the numbers have been run and it just so happens that second rounders play longer and at a higher level historically than do first rounders. As to the previous post, if hypothetically the Saints drafted Dez Bryant at 32 before attempting to trade down with a team in the top of round 2 first, I would consider it a wasted pick as we are loaded at WR. The truth is teams have various needs, so when they say BPA they really mean BPA at one of the various needs the team has. Our needs are clearly DE, DT, at OLB, S or CB if sharper leaves depending on what the team does with Jenkins.

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02-25-2010, 04:24 PM	#3
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: 2010 NFL Draft I would need to see the stats on it because I consider guys like Colston anomalies. Of the past 5 players selected at 32, only 1 was a full time starter their rookie season (Logan Mankins). The others all contributed but were not starters. The point is not that anyone drafted at 32 can not be a starter (Drew Brees was a #32 pick), but rather I do not think that you are banking on your draft pick at 32 to start and produce their rookie season. Not saying it wont happen or doesnt happen, but I dont think you are envisioning your draft pick at 32 coming onto a Super Bowl winning roster and outplaying someone for a starting spot. I agree we are stacked at WR, but if a talent falls that far then you draft him. You seriously cant tell me that if a top 10 non QB talent falls to you at pick 32, you are going to pass him to fill a need with a player that is at best the 4th best at his position in the draft. If a player can provide an upgrade for your team and you have him valued much greater than any other player left on your draft board, you take that player rather than reach for someone whose value is not as high as the draft slot you are picking in. I agree and would prefer to see us draft DE or DT or even a young LB, but if the best left are Ricky Sapp, Arthur Jones, and Eric Norwood and the Saints have a player they ranked much higher than 32 on their draft board that falls even though he doesn't fill a perceived need, I would rather see them take that player than pull an Al Davis Oakland Raider reach.