Ok, you're the boss...

tweeky · 10-28-2003, 03:31 PM

So tweeky , you are willing to settle for a standard that was not good enough in Tampa Bay and San Francisco ????

Not even a good try 08. If you were in charge you\'d have fired Belicheck for going 9-7 last year.
If we had the talent TB had, yeah 8-8 would be unacceptable.
When Dungy was fired, he had taken a TB team to the NFC championship game I don\'t know how many times. He had one of the best teams in the league and the window was starting to close. TB had a chance to bring in the missing piece (which I disagreed with) before the window closed. Using your flawed Tampa loving logic, 12-4 and 13-3 demanded a change? So any team that doesn\'t finish over 11-5 is settling?
WEAK

Haslett has taken a piece of crap and built a competitive team. If they improve and play good football, why change and start rebuilding again? That would be foolish.

But if we reach the NFC championship game 3-4 years in a row and fail, and one of the best coaches on the planet becomes available, and we\'re still in our window of opportunity, and he looks like the missing piece to a championship, then yeah you make a change. 8-8 would not be good enough.

I hope even you can see the logic in that.

saintfan · 10-28-2003, 04:11 PM

Sorry tweeky, but 08 can see no logic. He views the world through Delhomme goggles and like Billy said, he\'s the self appointed leader of the \"FIRE \'EM ALL\" group. He\'s the kind of guy who sits there in his chair and proceeds to tell the world how it should be. You can bet his \"I know it all\" attitude isn\'t limited to football. You can bet there are a LOT of people in this world who hear him talk about various things (to include football) that walk away from the conversation shakin\' their head at what they just heard.

...and No, he\'s not Bill Clinton, but I\'d be money he voted for him. I betcha he voted for David Duke too!

whowatches · 10-28-2003, 04:21 PM

You want to fire McCarthy too? Not me.

I totally agree that we should take into account everything that happens with this team for the remaining games before we start writing pink slips.

That being said, hasn\'t McCarthy\'s performance so far at least called his abilities into question? I\'m willing to give him the rest of the season, but he\'s been more disappointing than Venturi in my eyes. At least we knew what to expect out of Venturi, and he\'s dealing with a rebuilt squad. McCarthy has talent on his side of the ball.

Like I said in an earlier post, this season can still show us quite a bit about the players and coaches. I\'m wiling to reserve judgement, but I don\'t think McCarthy should throw those resumes in the shredder just yet.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-28-2003, 04:30 PM

Here\'s the thing about McCarthy. Last year we lead the NFC in scoring. This year there have been a lot of dropped passes and mistakes by the PLAYERS. I fault McCarthy too, but I\'m no offensive coordianator and it\'s not OBVIOUS enough for me to be calling for him to be fired. And like you said, there are still 8-games to be played. Let\'s face it. McCarthy knows a hell of a lot more about what he\'s doing than the rest of us. When plays work the coordinator looks like a genius and when they don\'t he looks like an idiot.

I\'ll let the season work itself out and I will call it like I see it. But, my opionion is just that, an opinion. I\'m not going to sit here and pretend I know that firing everyone is the best thing, when I have zero coaching experience. I\'ll leave that to the resident experts.

[Edited on 28/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

JOESAM2002 · 10-28-2003, 04:49 PM

. He\'s the kind of guy who sits there in his chair and proceeds to tell the world how it should be. You can bet his \"I know it all\" attitude isn\'t limited to football. You can bet there are a LOT of people in this world who hear him talk about various things (to include football) that walk away from the conversation shakin\' their head at what they just heard.

Kinda makes you think huh? Wonder if this coin has two sides?

Is there no middle ground? Is everything black or white? Can\'t we all just get along?

[Edited on 28/10/2003 by JOESAM2002]

saintfan · 10-28-2003, 04:50 PM

I was about to type the same thing Billy. Mike has done some questionable things, but it\'s possible the players (see dropped passes and poor execution all around) have called his abilities into question with their performance (or lack of it). The Saints seem to be playing catchup this year, and it has to be difficult for an O coordinator when he\'s always playing from behind.

I\'ll say right now that I\'d like to see a change at defensive coordinator next year, but Venturi has been handicapped with injuries this year to the point that I don\'t think it\'ll happen. We\'re probably lookin\' at the same coaches next season.

saintz08 · 10-28-2003, 09:32 PM

Damn leave for a bit and see what happens .....

Where to start .

Haslett firing , any of you let\'s let him drag this continued soap opera on posters want to keep Ditka ??? Haslett for some reason and I have not got a clue why , is the follow the leader head coach . Saints had Glover and that was not good enough because the Ravens had two lard butts up front . So Haslett goes out and does the heavy lunch bunch experiment , then the Bucs win with a 2 and 3 gap defensive tackle , so Haslett goes out and gets himself one . Not to mention the fact , he for some reason needs to revamp the defense every year and use the geling excuse every September .This is a former defensive coordinator turned head coach , who cannot settle on a defense .And yes I realize adjustments have to be made from time to time .

There is a point within an organization that a standard must be maintained at , the Saints are not a decimated team .The point in which a head coach states we are losing and I do not know why , you have to wonder .....why .

Why waste the time ????

tweeky · 10-28-2003, 09:49 PM

Haz hasn\'t reached \"Ditka Bad\" yet. But if he loses this team and has another collapse then I think we all agree, he\'s gone.
But if they play good ball and improve (something they didn\'t do under Ditka) then I say another year, unless there\'s an awesome coach who wants to come here like a Gruden type. (Ha Ha Ha, like thats gonna happen).

I do think an 8-8 finish may require some assistants getting booted, but 9-7 should buy him another year.
But if we don\'t get a CB and a stud LB in the offseason I say off with all their heads.

saintz08 · 10-29-2003, 12:05 AM

Tweeky ,

The comments alone that come out of the Saints facility alone are worth the value of second guessing . Then add the unmotivated players , the general up and down play factor , the constant in fighting among players , the weight gains by the lunch bunch and the end of season drop offs . You have what constantly looks like a head coach in over his head .Haslett is beginning to look like Mora head coach/GM .

Haslett has gone 10-6 , then got the tougher schedule and went 7-9 and then the weaker schedule and went 9-7 this year he could go 9-7 optimistically and potentially 8-8 he would be in 4 years a slightly better then .500 football coach .

The team showed flashes with Zook and Riley and has struggled since their departure .

lumm0x · 10-29-2003, 10:06 AM

It\'s amazing to hear some of you guys. Most of you that are calling for Haz to be fired are the same folks who were blaming Brooks for all the problems. Oh, and you\'re also the one\'s that were saying to cut Jay Bellamy. Jay\'s played pretty damn good this year, hasn\'t he? Yeah, but y\'all wanted to cut him. Not move him to his natual postion, but CUT him.

I will plainly admit that I advocated and given the opportunity, would have cut Jay Bellamy. Strong safety is only Bellamy\'s natural position by degradation of his speed. He was a free safety at Rutgers and Seattle before he was plugged into the strong safety role for a total of 7 games in Seattle and finally this year here. So I\'m not sure how you mean his natural position in this post.
What point are you making here? So the coaching staff was smart enough to recognize that he still has value. We could generate a list of the bad personnel moves as well. We could amass a list of players brought in here to replace perfectly good ones that we let walk, only to see them fall flat on their faces. We could do that with every team in the league. So fans called for Bellamy\'s head and he proved them wrong. Good for Jay. He\'s had a great year and been a class act every day. Maybe adversity is what he needed to right his own ship. Perhaps personal adversity is what some other players need as well.

10-28-2003, 03:31 PM	#31
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Ok, you're the boss... So tweeky , you are willing to settle for a standard that was not good enough in Tampa Bay and San Francisco ???? Not even a good try 08. If you were in charge you\'d have fired Belicheck for going 9-7 last year. If we had the talent TB had, yeah 8-8 would be unacceptable. When Dungy was fired, he had taken a TB team to the NFC championship game I don\'t know how many times. He had one of the best teams in the league and the window was starting to close. TB had a chance to bring in the missing piece (which I disagreed with) before the window closed. Using your flawed Tampa loving logic, 12-4 and 13-3 demanded a change? So any team that doesn\'t finish over 11-5 is settling? WEAK Haslett has taken a piece of crap and built a competitive team. If they improve and play good football, why change and start rebuilding again? That would be foolish. But if we reach the NFC championship game 3-4 years in a row and fail, and one of the best coaches on the planet becomes available, and we\'re still in our window of opportunity, and he looks like the missing piece to a championship, then yeah you make a change. 8-8 would not be good enough. I hope even you can see the logic in that.
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

10-28-2003, 04:11 PM	#32
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Ok, you're the boss... Sorry tweeky, but 08 can see no logic. He views the world through Delhomme goggles and like Billy said, he\'s the self appointed leader of the \"FIRE \'EM ALL\" group. He\'s the kind of guy who sits there in his chair and proceeds to tell the world how it should be. You can bet his \"I know it all\" attitude isn\'t limited to football. You can bet there are a LOT of people in this world who hear him talk about various things (to include football) that walk away from the conversation shakin\' their head at what they just heard. ...and No, he\'s not Bill Clinton, but I\'d be money he voted for him. I betcha he voted for David Duke too!
	C'mon Man...

10-28-2003, 04:21 PM	#33
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	Ok, you're the boss... You want to fire McCarthy too? Not me. I totally agree that we should take into account everything that happens with this team for the remaining games before we start writing pink slips. That being said, hasn\'t McCarthy\'s performance so far at least called his abilities into question? I\'m willing to give him the rest of the season, but he\'s been more disappointing than Venturi in my eyes. At least we knew what to expect out of Venturi, and he\'s dealing with a rebuilt squad. McCarthy has talent on his side of the ball. Like I said in an earlier post, this season can still show us quite a bit about the players and coaches. I\'m wiling to reserve judgement, but I don\'t think McCarthy should throw those resumes in the shredder just yet.
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

10-28-2003, 04:30 PM	#34
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Ok, you're the boss... Here\'s the thing about McCarthy. Last year we lead the NFC in scoring. This year there have been a lot of dropped passes and mistakes by the PLAYERS. I fault McCarthy too, but I\'m no offensive coordianator and it\'s not OBVIOUS enough for me to be calling for him to be fired. And like you said, there are still 8-games to be played. Let\'s face it. McCarthy knows a hell of a lot more about what he\'s doing than the rest of us. When plays work the coordinator looks like a genius and when they don\'t he looks like an idiot. I\'ll let the season work itself out and I will call it like I see it. But, my opionion is just that, an opinion. I\'m not going to sit here and pretend I know that firing everyone is the best thing, when I have zero coaching experience. I\'ll leave that to the resident experts. [Edited on 28/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-28-2003, 04:49 PM	#35
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Ok, you're the boss... . He\'s the kind of guy who sits there in his chair and proceeds to tell the world how it should be. You can bet his \"I know it all\" attitude isn\'t limited to football. You can bet there are a LOT of people in this world who hear him talk about various things (to include football) that walk away from the conversation shakin\' their head at what they just heard. Kinda makes you think huh? Wonder if this coin has two sides? Is there no middle ground? Is everything black or white? Can\'t we all just get along? [Edited on 28/10/2003 by JOESAM2002]

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10-28-2003, 04:50 PM	#36
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Ok, you're the boss... I was about to type the same thing Billy. Mike has done some questionable things, but it\'s possible the players (see dropped passes and poor execution all around) have called his abilities into question with their performance (or lack of it). The Saints seem to be playing catchup this year, and it has to be difficult for an O coordinator when he\'s always playing from behind. I\'ll say right now that I\'d like to see a change at defensive coordinator next year, but Venturi has been handicapped with injuries this year to the point that I don\'t think it\'ll happen. We\'re probably lookin\' at the same coaches next season.
	C'mon Man...

10-28-2003, 09:32 PM	#37
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Ok, you're the boss... Damn leave for a bit and see what happens ..... Where to start . Haslett firing , any of you let\'s let him drag this continued soap opera on posters want to keep Ditka ??? Haslett for some reason and I have not got a clue why , is the follow the leader head coach . Saints had Glover and that was not good enough because the Ravens had two lard butts up front . So Haslett goes out and does the heavy lunch bunch experiment , then the Bucs win with a 2 and 3 gap defensive tackle , so Haslett goes out and gets himself one . Not to mention the fact , he for some reason needs to revamp the defense every year and use the geling excuse every September .This is a former defensive coordinator turned head coach , who cannot settle on a defense .And yes I realize adjustments have to be made from time to time . There is a point within an organization that a standard must be maintained at , the Saints are not a decimated team .The point in which a head coach states we are losing and I do not know why , you have to wonder .....why . Why waste the time ????
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

10-28-2003, 09:49 PM	#38
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Ok, you're the boss... Haz hasn\'t reached \"Ditka Bad\" yet. But if he loses this team and has another collapse then I think we all agree, he\'s gone. But if they play good ball and improve (something they didn\'t do under Ditka) then I say another year, unless there\'s an awesome coach who wants to come here like a Gruden type. (Ha Ha Ha, like thats gonna happen). I do think an 8-8 finish may require some assistants getting booted, but 9-7 should buy him another year. But if we don\'t get a CB and a stud LB in the offseason I say off with all their heads.
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

10-29-2003, 12:05 AM	#39
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Ok, you're the boss... Tweeky , The comments alone that come out of the Saints facility alone are worth the value of second guessing . Then add the unmotivated players , the general up and down play factor , the constant in fighting among players , the weight gains by the lunch bunch and the end of season drop offs . You have what constantly looks like a head coach in over his head .Haslett is beginning to look like Mora head coach/GM . Haslett has gone 10-6 , then got the tougher schedule and went 7-9 and then the weaker schedule and went 9-7 this year he could go 9-7 optimistically and potentially 8-8 he would be in 4 years a slightly better then .500 football coach . The team showed flashes with Zook and Riley and has struggled since their departure .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

10-29-2003, 10:06 AM	#40
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Ok, you're the boss... It\'s amazing to hear some of you guys. Most of you that are calling for Haz to be fired are the same folks who were blaming Brooks for all the problems. Oh, and you\'re also the one\'s that were saying to cut Jay Bellamy. Jay\'s played pretty damn good this year, hasn\'t he? Yeah, but y\'all wanted to cut him. Not move him to his natual postion, but CUT him. I will plainly admit that I advocated and given the opportunity, would have cut Jay Bellamy. Strong safety is only Bellamy\'s natural position by degradation of his speed. He was a free safety at Rutgers and Seattle before he was plugged into the strong safety role for a total of 7 games in Seattle and finally this year here. So I\'m not sure how you mean his natural position in this post. What point are you making here? So the coaching staff was smart enough to recognize that he still has value. We could generate a list of the bad personnel moves as well. We could amass a list of players brought in here to replace perfectly good ones that we let walk, only to see them fall flat on their faces. We could do that with every team in the league. So fans called for Bellamy\'s head and he proved them wrong. Good for Jay. He\'s had a great year and been a class act every day. Maybe adversity is what he needed to right his own ship. Perhaps personal adversity is what some other players need as well.