Not as easy - Seachickens expose weaknesses

Turbo Saint · 11-22-2010, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by strato

No left Turbo..lol

haha yea.

but dude...2 of his XPs barely made it, then he blew that chip shot...screw him, i don't want to see him on the field...how can anyone feel safe with him out there? you can't put him in if you're cringing every moment and sean can't tell me he's not...deep thinking to commence on sean's part.

Turbo Saint · 11-22-2010, 01:12 AM

aside from matt ryan & michael vick being out for the rest of the season, nothing more would make me happier than hartley being cut.

iceshack149 · 11-22-2010, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by xan

My two positives:

1) first glimmer of a running game. But not due to oline.

2) Dallas will win if we play like this on Thursday

How is #2 a positive?

The Saints have concerns like all NFL teams have concerns. The thing to remember here is that this was the last team to win the Superbowl so these guys know how to adjust and how to win.

Choupique · 11-22-2010, 05:48 AM

ready to ditch the kicker already?

that same kid who got us into the super duper bowl?

geaux saints. two dat.

neugey · 11-22-2010, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Turbo Saint

haha yea.

but dude...2 of his XPs barely made it, then he blew that chip shot...screw him, i don't want to see him on the field...how can anyone feel safe with him out there? you can't put him in if you're cringing every moment and sean can't tell me he's not...deep thinking to commence on sean's part.

Hartley should be nervous ... there is a free agent kicker out there who has two championship rings to his 1 - Jeff Reed (though Reed has his own issue with misses lately).

skymike · 11-22-2010, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by xan

Just a few issues to fix before thursday:

1) long snap. What a freaking joke. Hartley has some liability, but that's a timing issue that the snapper has to fix YESTERDAY.

2) Greer. Body clearly in dome, but left brain in men's room. They figured he couldn't be as god as the hype and boy were they right.

3) pass rush. Hasselbeck was drinking tea and eating scones while perusing the secondary. Kitna's going to have a field day as their line is better and their receivers are faster.

4) kickoff coverage. What is the problem? Average starting fp was unusually high. OB kickoff didn't help.

5) speed of play. Can't we play faster? Every fast series wound up being a fast score. Just score points! All this personnel crapola is just giving opposing defenses too much time to adjust. The wr/te corps are virtually interchangeable, just mix the positioning, not the players. Using less playclock forces base defenses, giving more to exploit. Way too obvious today.

6) fix red zone offense. Wow. How freaking lucky can we get blowing 3 rz chances? Bad playcalling mostly responsible. But brees has to fix his vision because those passes were horrible.

We were far too lucky today. Many things went right, like dropped wide open passes and barely illegal touches and red zone ints.

Its not in my programming to use silly phrases like, "What game were you watching," because for one, you could be completely right. As you know, this board is short on self annointed "experts," and long on cool dudes, who just want to throw in 2 cents.

Such was your view, I'm guessing on tv. Funny thing about going to the game live, instead of watching it on tv, is you dont get announcers, so I have no clue why Hartley was doing kickoffs, for instance.

This was my view from the Terrace yesterday (Girod St. Endzone):

And actually I have some questions.

1. longsnapp? Who was that long-snapper? He wore 47. Did Kevin Houser suddenly re-appear? What happened to Jason Kyle?

1a. Why was Hartley doing kickoffs? What was wrong with Morestead?

2. Greer. I disagree with you. 1st of all, the Hawks receiver who kept lining up on the right was badazz. Lester Hayes couldnt cover that guy every play. On the run that took Seattle to our 10, it looked like Greer was supposed to get safety help, and besides, how bout that TD-saving tackle? Greer holds numerous track records at Tennessee. Maybe he screwed up, but his speed saved us 4 points.

On the 2nd big pass play, Greer had him covered like a blanket, but it was one of those throw-it-short dills, and they guy just made an NFL caliber play on it.

I didnt catch that WR's name, but he apparently is their big threat, and those 2 plays were the full extent of his damage yesterday.

3. pass rush. We didnt register a sack yesterday, but I can tell you, Hasselbeck was in a hurry. We also didnt blitz, but from my seat, Hasselback never got into a real groove, and when he did find the red-zone, our D shut off the endzone.

4. my biggest thing w/ special teams yesterday, besides Hartley, actually was that Roby got clobbered on one, and his head stayed down the whole time he walked off the field. Dont know if they showed it much on tv, but he was visibly wobbly, and I think he downed one kickoff later, which other times he might have taken a run for.

Dont get me started on Hartley. I was joking when he lined up to kick that everyone should cross their fingers, and sure enough-- doink!

5. I wouldnt question the personnel shifts too much. It looks to me like Peyton's got the O scheme under control, not only from a results standpoint-- we're 8-3 while missing 1/3 of our stars, but just looking at the idea that teams preparing for us, have to prepare for 4 different teams. Its like we have 4 offenses, a Flintstones power T, a normal pro-set, 3 college mutants setups, and a run-and-shoot. Pete Carroll's brain must be hurting this morning.

6. Somehow, Im not overly concerned with Brees motor skills.

You call it corn, I call it maze. The harder we work, the luckier we get. When the tv was showing other things, U-Young (wish he'd change his name to Schwartzkopf) was playing his best game yesterday. Porter & the D-backs were all over the ball, and Harper's strip & fumble recovery was beautiful. Their RB, Fosset? #20, was faster, and more agile than anyone else on the field. Im telling you, TV didnt capture this guy: He looked like a rabbit between a bunch of rocks. But our guys found a way to contain him, and did some great technique to minimize his threat.

Mostly, the Seahawks were never in this game. We had them at arms length, and just being there, believe me, we had them and could have won 49-13 with 2 strokes of luck. The crowd actually got a little quieter
halfway thru the 4th, because it was already garbage time.

Wait till we get our guys back.

SaintsBro · 11-22-2010, 10:47 AM

I was obviously pumped up by a big win, but you gotta admit -- the Special Teams are the weak link on this team, and that could seriously cost us in playoff situations. (It already cost us against the Falcons and Browns, but let's not go there, too painful a memory.) Do you honestly think if we play the Eagles, we can kick weak short kickoffs like that, and give the ball to Michael Vick on his own 40 yard line all the time, and still win the game? Do you think we can have missed field goals and turnovers in the red zone like that against the Giants or Packers' defense, and still win?

I remember last year, late in the season (it was after the Tampa Bay loss, actually), Sean Payton stepped in, and announced he would be tweaking the special teams during the start of the playoff run. And sure enough, the improvements happened right away -- Reggie's punt return against the Cardinals was a thing of beauty. I hope Payton does the same thing this year, and I hope he does it SOON -- the special teams and in particular, special teams coaching is really starting to get on my nerves.

TheOak · 11-22-2010, 10:53 AM

Negatives:
Change Mike Williams to Des Bryant, and those long burns are for TD's...

Hartley needs to go yesterday. I have been saying this since last season.... No more excuses... He barely makes extra points... Watch his last few he hooks ALL of them. He is now 3rd to last in the NFL with 66% on FG's.

I posted after the first game we look like we are wearing lead shoes compared to our opponents..

Positives:
Ivory was running over people again. That stiff arm was beautiful... I know through his mouth piece he said "get off me"! LOL

Our Red Zone Defense is looking amazing.. for the most part.

Colston has some amazing play.. Only one dropped catch he should have caught that I saw. That TD where he got nailed on the 3 but still made it in is worthy of the Highlight reel.

Moore was amazing as usual.. Staying in bounds on that catch was great!

Meachum and Henderson both looked good. Great catches.

Jimmy Graham looks like a worthly replacement for Shockey.. I love Shockey but he is hurt a lot.

EVEN Shanley looked good on two plays! He had 9 tackles and 3 assists.

Next week:

Hartley will still be with us "sigh"

Our special Teams better step up.

TopCow · 11-22-2010, 02:10 PM

It would be easy to nitpick our win over Seattle and conclude that we are in trouble on Thanksgiving Day. I'm not buying that.

First, let's admit that we had some very strong upside in that game and that Seattle is a good team. Not great, but good. Also, the things that went wrong are all fixable. Not lack of talent or poor coaching. All mental errors. And I have a hunch that on National TV, we will be at our best and those mental errors will not happen.

saintfan · 11-22-2010, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Belair57

since I live in seattle...Im going to rub this in for months..What a great win

What are the fans like up there? I know a handful of Seahawks fans, and to a man they are much like we are on here. I'd call them fairly classy. They are the anti-Vikings fan IMO.

As for the game, I thought Greer cost us, but I'm wondering if his lapses had anything to do with the people we were missing on Defense. The red zone misses are frustrating, but the kicking game gets a pass since we signed the long snapper for this game on freaking Saturday.

We looked pretty good on O early and then we seemed to lose focus in the second half. It was definitely not a playoff caliber showing, but it was a step in the right direction.

The Lions played Dallas tough and got hozed on a few calls. I expect we'll give Dallas their first post-coaching-change loss on Thursday.

11-22-2010, 01:00 AM	#11
Turbo Saint SoCal Saint Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: OB - San Diego, CA Posts: 726	Originally Posted by strato No left Turbo..lol haha yea. but dude...2 of his XPs barely made it, then he blew that chip shot...screw him, i don't want to see him on the field...how can anyone feel safe with him out there? you can't put him in if you're cringing every moment and sean can't tell me he's not...deep thinking to commence on sean's part.

11-22-2010, 04:23 AM	#13
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,258 Blog Entries: 1	Originally Posted by xan My two positives: 1) first glimmer of a running game. But not due to oline. 2) Dallas will win if we play like this on Thursday How is #2 a positive? The Saints have concerns like all NFL teams have concerns. The thing to remember here is that this was the last team to win the Superbowl so these guys know how to adjust and how to win.

11-22-2010, 05:48 AM	#14
Choupique 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,594	ready to ditch the kicker already? that same kid who got us into the super duper bowl? geaux saints. two dat.
Choupique 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,594

11-22-2010, 08:41 AM	#15
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,697 Blog Entries: 13	Originally Posted by Turbo Saint haha yea. but dude...2 of his XPs barely made it, then he blew that chip shot...screw him, i don't want to see him on the field...how can anyone feel safe with him out there? you can't put him in if you're cringing every moment and sean can't tell me he's not...deep thinking to commence on sean's part. Hartley should be nervous ... there is a free agent kicker out there who has two championship rings to his 1 - Jeff Reed (though Reed has his own issue with misses lately).

11-22-2010, 08:58 AM	#16
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Originally Posted by xan Just a few issues to fix before thursday: 1) long snap. What a freaking joke. Hartley has some liability, but that's a timing issue that the snapper has to fix YESTERDAY. 2) Greer. Body clearly in dome, but left brain in men's room. They figured he couldn't be as god as the hype and boy were they right. 3) pass rush. Hasselbeck was drinking tea and eating scones while perusing the secondary. Kitna's going to have a field day as their line is better and their receivers are faster. 4) kickoff coverage. What is the problem? Average starting fp was unusually high. OB kickoff didn't help. 5) speed of play. Can't we play faster? Every fast series wound up being a fast score. Just score points! All this personnel crapola is just giving opposing defenses too much time to adjust. The wr/te corps are virtually interchangeable, just mix the positioning, not the players. Using less playclock forces base defenses, giving more to exploit. Way too obvious today. 6) fix red zone offense. Wow. How freaking lucky can we get blowing 3 rz chances? Bad playcalling mostly responsible. But brees has to fix his vision because those passes were horrible. We were far too lucky today. Many things went right, like dropped wide open passes and barely illegal touches and red zone ints. Its not in my programming to use silly phrases like, "What game were you watching," because for one, you could be completely right. As you know, this board is short on self annointed "experts," and long on cool dudes, who just want to throw in 2 cents. Such was your view, I'm guessing on tv. Funny thing about going to the game live, instead of watching it on tv, is you dont get announcers, so I have no clue why Hartley was doing kickoffs, for instance. This was my view from the Terrace yesterday (Girod St. Endzone): And actually I have some questions. 1. longsnapp? Who was that long-snapper? He wore 47. Did Kevin Houser suddenly re-appear? What happened to Jason Kyle? 1a. Why was Hartley doing kickoffs? What was wrong with Morestead? 2. Greer. I disagree with you. 1st of all, the Hawks receiver who kept lining up on the right was badazz. Lester Hayes couldnt cover that guy every play. On the run that took Seattle to our 10, it looked like Greer was supposed to get safety help, and besides, how bout that TD-saving tackle? Greer holds numerous track records at Tennessee. Maybe he screwed up, but his speed saved us 4 points. On the 2nd big pass play, Greer had him covered like a blanket, but it was one of those throw-it-short dills, and they guy just made an NFL caliber play on it. I didnt catch that WR's name, but he apparently is their big threat, and those 2 plays were the full extent of his damage yesterday. 3. pass rush. We didnt register a sack yesterday, but I can tell you, Hasselbeck was in a hurry. We also didnt blitz, but from my seat, Hasselback never got into a real groove, and when he did find the red-zone, our D shut off the endzone. 4. my biggest thing w/ special teams yesterday, besides Hartley, actually was that Roby got clobbered on one, and his head stayed down the whole time he walked off the field. Dont know if they showed it much on tv, but he was visibly wobbly, and I think he downed one kickoff later, which other times he might have taken a run for. Dont get me started on Hartley. I was joking when he lined up to kick that everyone should cross their fingers, and sure enough-- doink! 5. I wouldnt question the personnel shifts too much. It looks to me like Peyton's got the O scheme under control, not only from a results standpoint-- we're 8-3 while missing 1/3 of our stars, but just looking at the idea that teams preparing for us, have to prepare for 4 different teams. Its like we have 4 offenses, a Flintstones power T, a normal pro-set, 3 college mutants setups, and a run-and-shoot. Pete Carroll's brain must be hurting this morning. 6. Somehow, Im not overly concerned with Brees motor skills. You call it corn, I call it maze. The harder we work, the luckier we get. When the tv was showing other things, U-Young (wish he'd change his name to Schwartzkopf) was playing his best game yesterday. Porter & the D-backs were all over the ball, and Harper's strip & fumble recovery was beautiful. Their RB, Fosset? #20, was faster, and more agile than anyone else on the field. Im telling you, TV didnt capture this guy: He looked like a rabbit between a bunch of rocks. But our guys found a way to contain him, and did some great technique to minimize his threat. Mostly, the Seahawks were never in this game. We had them at arms length, and just being there, believe me, we had them and could have won 49-13 with 2 strokes of luck. The crowd actually got a little quieter halfway thru the 4th, because it was already garbage time. Wait till we get our guys back.

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11-22-2010, 01:12 AM	#12
Turbo Saint SoCal Saint Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: OB - San Diego, CA Posts: 726	aside from matt ryan & michael vick being out for the rest of the season, nothing more would make me happier than hartley being cut.

11-22-2010, 10:47 AM	#17
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	I was obviously pumped up by a big win, but you gotta admit -- the Special Teams are the weak link on this team, and that could seriously cost us in playoff situations. (It already cost us against the Falcons and Browns, but let's not go there, too painful a memory.) Do you honestly think if we play the Eagles, we can kick weak short kickoffs like that, and give the ball to Michael Vick on his own 40 yard line all the time, and still win the game? Do you think we can have missed field goals and turnovers in the red zone like that against the Giants or Packers' defense, and still win? I remember last year, late in the season (it was after the Tampa Bay loss, actually), Sean Payton stepped in, and announced he would be tweaking the special teams during the start of the playoff run. And sure enough, the improvements happened right away -- Reggie's punt return against the Cardinals was a thing of beauty. I hope Payton does the same thing this year, and I hope he does it SOON -- the special teams and in particular, special teams coaching is really starting to get on my nerves.

11-22-2010, 10:53 AM	#18
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Negatives: Change Mike Williams to Des Bryant, and those long burns are for TD's... Hartley needs to go yesterday. I have been saying this since last season.... No more excuses... He barely makes extra points... Watch his last few he hooks ALL of them. He is now 3rd to last in the NFL with 66% on FG's. I posted after the first game we look like we are wearing lead shoes compared to our opponents.. Positives: Ivory was running over people again. That stiff arm was beautiful... I know through his mouth piece he said "get off me"! LOL Our Red Zone Defense is looking amazing.. for the most part. Colston has some amazing play.. Only one dropped catch he should have caught that I saw. That TD where he got nailed on the 3 but still made it in is worthy of the Highlight reel. Moore was amazing as usual.. Staying in bounds on that catch was great! Meachum and Henderson both looked good. Great catches. Jimmy Graham looks like a worthly replacement for Shockey.. I love Shockey but he is hurt a lot. EVEN Shanley looked good on two plays! He had 9 tackles and 3 assists. Next week: Hartley will still be with us "sigh" Our special Teams better step up.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

11-22-2010, 02:10 PM	#19
TopCow 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 299	It would be easy to nitpick our win over Seattle and conclude that we are in trouble on Thanksgiving Day. I'm not buying that. First, let's admit that we had some very strong upside in that game and that Seattle is a good team. Not great, but good. Also, the things that went wrong are all fixable. Not lack of talent or poor coaching. All mental errors. And I have a hunch that on National TV, we will be at our best and those mental errors will not happen.
TopCow 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 299

11-22-2010, 02:44 PM	#20
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Belair57 since I live in seattle...Im going to rub this in for months..What a great win What are the fans like up there? I know a handful of Seahawks fans, and to a man they are much like we are on here. I'd call them fairly classy. They are the anti-Vikings fan IMO. As for the game, I thought Greer cost us, but I'm wondering if his lapses had anything to do with the people we were missing on Defense. The red zone misses are frustrating, but the kicking game gets a pass since we signed the long snapper for this game on freaking Saturday. We looked pretty good on O early and then we seemed to lose focus in the second half. It was definitely not a playoff caliber showing, but it was a step in the right direction. The Lions played Dallas tough and got hozed on a few calls. I expect we'll give Dallas their first post-coaching-change loss on Thursday.
	C'mon Man...