SaintsVet

Gatorman, not only do I think your posts are relatively objective, most importantly, you are dead on. Any casual observer of this team would think that the main problem is at QB, all intense fans of this team absolutely :exclam: KNOW where the problem is.

WhoDat

Gator, I never called you negative. A cheap-a$$ maybe. I will also say that you shouldn\'t take to heart much of what Saintfan has to say on the Brooks argument. He\'s been a staunch supporter of Brooks since he got hurt last year and Haslett refused to sit him (maybe before). The man\'s argument never changes. He ignores any miscues by Brooks and then shifts blame to every other position on the field. Then he tells you that you clearly have some personal vendetta or must be drinking something to see it that way. At some point he usually calls you short sighted or old and tired. If you get him off of the Brooks debate he\'s generally a good guy with good observations. Of course, he rarely comes off the bench unless it is to protect his precious Brooks, but...

Don\'t sweat it hombre. Just take some time to cool off and come back later.

That being said, I think some fans of this board take it too far with Brooks. I won\'t for a second pretend to be a big supporter of the guy, but c\'mon. Some of you... I mean... we\'d be 8-3 if it weren\'t for Brooks. That is ridiculous, and I understand when Billy and Saintfan destroy posters that post that kind of foolishness.

It is hard to claim that AB is much worse than fourth all-time on the lists of Saints QBs, and realistically, he\'s more like second. Other than Archie, he is clearly the most talented. The frustration here is two-fold. One, Hebert, Everett, and so on, never got to play with this kind of surrounding talent. Two, AB does have the potential to be great, but he\'s not delivering. Honestly guys, some other Saints QBs could have been playing their best football and not reaching Brooks\' level as an underacheiver, so let\'s all just chill.

The man makes mental mistakes that cost us games. So does Brett Favre. He also makes some great plays that win games. I would like to see another QB come in here and challenge him for the starting spot (given a fair shot of course), but I\'m also not going to tell you that AB is garbage and that we should cut him or trade him away for a fifth round pick or that Bouman would have this team 8-3. That\'s just ridiculous.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

SaintsFan087

Alright you people, do you know absolutely nothing about football ? know and am very good friends with alot of the Saints Players, and that includes ones on the defense that you are knocking so hardly. If you saw that blocked extra point, then I guess it would be safe for me to assume that you have eyes and can see and understand the game of football enough to know that our DEFENSE has won 3 of our last games that we won. Aaron almost cost us the game last week with 3INTs, 2 of which were thrown DIRECTLY at Falcons. And another thing, I have met Brooks on many occassions, I like him, but I also know that HE alone lost that game for us today. Others could have played better but Brooks fumbled on the 1yd line and again on the 18yd line!! That\'s 14pts that he cost us alone. Add 14 to 20 and you get a final score of 34-33 A WIN. The defense has been kicking some good southern @ss so don\'t even try and knock them. Which ever one of you said Rasby played worse than Brooks today, please do me a favor and get your eyes checked. Nobody could do worse than Brooks today!

Gatorman: As for Michael Lewis, he left the game today with a sprained ankle. We all know he\'s a trooper and will be back before we know it. And personally, I read all of this thread, I never saw Gator bash Brooks nor say anything wrong. I agree with him for the most part.

I don\'t agree with anyone knocking the D though. They are playing their hearts out! They have been holding their own and doin their best playing on a short field with all the INTs and Fumbles from Brooks lately. Give em some credit. People are too quick to bash the Saints. If you are a true Saints fan support your team no matter what. I love Brooks just wish he were consistent. You can play good one week then poorly the next. Consistency is the answer!! I do think he cost us the game today, that is my opinion (and should be a fact) but the fact remains that as long as he is wearing a black and gold jersey, you should stick behind him and any other player on the team.

WhoDat: I absolutely LOVE your comment about Brooks and the Bud commercial with Leon, that one is absolutely priceless! Good one!!

I know ya\'ll are all probably wondering who the heck I am just busting up in the middle of this, but when it comes to the Saints, I don\'t hold my tongue!! I\'m a die hard through and through. I promise you that you will never meet a person that loves this team more than I do!! I am a season ticket holder, have all the Saints merchandise, know all my stats, all my players, and anything else there is to know when it comes to my team. I can tell you every NFL team record, who needs to win and who needs to lose for us to get a wild card. So I am not just walking into this knowing nothing. I know what I need to know and that is why I am posting my opinion! Sorry if any of you don\'t agree with me, but bottom line, stand behind your team!!! Love em, support em, get pissed at them, but stick by their side til the end!!! And get this, I\'m a 24yr old female. I just love the game of football. All of ya\'ll just need to chill, post your opinion, but BACK YOUR TEAM!!!

-Ashley
(SaintsFan087@aol.com) I love talking to ANY saints fan, so feel free to write me. I have tons of pictures with my boys too that I am more than willing to share! Even with ole Smiley Brooks!!! (My personal fav though is my man JOE HORN!!!!!!!!!!! A real team leader!!!)

SaintsFan087, while I appreciate you comments on the team, please don\'t direct any barbs at other members. We hope to state only opinions here. Good to have you with us.


[Edited on 24/11/2003 by ColdFusion]

-Ashley

A true Saints Fan will ALWAYS back his team through and through, no matter what!!

BillyC

I think WhoDat was right in a lot of areas in his predictions. He said there was not enough quality free agents signed on defense. He was right. This defense has played better in some games, but in other games they look like the same pathetic defense. There is still a severe lack of talent on defense and as starange as it may sound, I think Venturi has done a pretty good job with this defense, with all things considered, but he still isn\'t a top D coordinator.

WhoDat said that the offense would not be as productive this year. Right again. We clearly have one of the best running backs in the league but we are lacking talent in other areas on offense. But we have the talent on offense to play MUCH better than we have.

On special teams I don\'t know what the deal is there. Just another unit that has not lived up to expectations.

Now as optimistic as I am. I cannot overlook the fact that this team has underachieved. It\'s not just one unit. It\'s offense, defense, and special teams. Who should we blame? No one? Hmmmm..... I don\'t think we are going to improve that way. Let me elaborate on this a little bit more.

Let\'s start with Aaron Brooks. I think Araon is going to be a very good QB, but he is not developing as quickly as I thought he would. He does not get rid of the ball quick enough. He tends to lock onto receivers and does not look the safety off. He tends to hold the ball too long and take unneccessary sacks. The truth is that Brooks is not as bad as some say and he\'s not as good as some say. Yes, that includes me.

Haslett has rebuilt this team. Take the offensive line for example. He\'s rebuilt it about 4-times. It\'s hard to improve on defense when you rebuild the offensive line EVERY year. But the sad thing is -- it still needs work. This is the area of the team that has been focused on the most in the draft and in free agency and it STILL needs work.

Bottom Line -- This offense isn\'t loaded with weapons like some like to think. Joe Horn is about it when it comes to good quality receivers. Donte\' is never on the field. Paython is average.

Defense is exactly like WhoDat said it would be and it cannot be counted on. Sure, they have played some good games against below average offenses, but that\'s about it.

Haslett is in his 4th year. WhoDat asked me a long time ago how long is enough. My answer is this year is enough. I\'m not too proud to admit I was wrong. I WAS WRONG. I think I would pretty much be right when I say that if we got another coach that they probably wouldn\'t do any worse. So, why not go another direction? We might even actually improve. Players might even reach their full potential.

I think WhoDat is correct when he says we are not that far away. A couple of impact players on defene and maybe another quality receiver and we might just get over the hump.

One thing I know WhoDat is correct about is for those of you that think this team would have a much better record without Brooks. That\'s rediculos. They might have won one more game if Brooks would have played better, but that\'s about it.

lumm0x

I do think Brooks has to play perfect for this team to win.

There are alot of guys on this team that you can bank on what you are going to get from them every Sunday. Deuce, Horn, Fontenot, Terrell Smith, Carney, Grant, Howard, etc..... These guys show up with the same stuff all the time. It\'s called consistency. There are alot of other players that don\'t exhibit this quality and like it or not Brooks is one of them. And there is also that point that there aren\'t too many QB\'s around the league that are highly consistent either...and that is true as well.

I think that with the coaching staff we have and the game plans we bring Brooks needs to be flawless for us to win. We consistently take stupid penalties that can help kill drives. We do not create many turnovers as a defense, so we need to work with a long field. Our special teams has been everything but this year. All of these things have been a constant throughout the year, so we need to have Brooks\' \"A\" game to succeed. Until this coaching staff can get the players disciplined enough to limit the mental mistakes that cause penalties, time outs taken simply because our guys can\'t line up properly, and the simple fact that as a unit we exhibit poor tackling skills, we begin behind the 8 ball.

Sorry SF087, but the defense has to get some blame for yesterday. The coaching staff should take the first wave of stones simply because they apparently planned the entire off season around building team speed to counter elusive QB\'s and to stop the screen passes that killed us the last two seasons. Guess what killed us yesterday? We cannot stop a screen. That is becoming a fact. The Eagles didn\'t have to work a short field yesterday. They had huge drives against us. I think they punted once. The defense is almost at full strength, or as strong with predicted starters as any unit in the NFL right now, so injuries can\'t be excused at this point with the exception of the CB position. The Eagles were using a much less experienced and banged up secondary than us. The defense wasn\'t solely to blame for yesterday, neither was Brooks, neither was McCarthy, Venturi or Haslett. Yesterday can be blamed on the Saints. Just like every other win and loss. We are a very talented team that is not disciplined, consistent or under strong leadership.

JOESAM2002

I just have to throw my 2 cents in here. It took me this long to get the taste of yesterdays loss out of my mouth. I honestly believe that loss was caused by the whole team. Yes, Brooks had 2 fumbles right against our own goal line. It certainly didn\'t help where they occured. Makes that field reallllllllll short. But to me this was a complete team break down. Deuce, of course can hold his head up high once again. I love this team as much as anybody, but yesterday, they just didn\'t play the way they can.

Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!

"Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

WhoDat

Billy, that was the best post you\'ve ever made on this board. Now if you would just stop arguing and admit that I\'ll always right and you\'re always wrong every time we talk things would go a lot smoother around here! LMAO. Just kidding man. But I am printing that message and framing it!

Bottom line is, we are close. When things go wrong our receivers look like they\'re garbage. I don\'t believe that\'s the case. Next year could be totally different. You put Donte on the field (HEALTHY) for a full season, you eliminate the drops and injuries to Horn, you match up Pathon on the nickel back, and allow Lewis to run wild, plus put Conwell, Boo, and Deuce into routes now and then and this team has all the tools to be absolutely explosive. I still truly believe that. The problem is coaching. We need to eliminate mistakes on every side of the ball. The defense needs to make tackles. The O needs to stop the dumb penalties, turnovers, and f-ups in general.

A couple of key free agents and some good coaching and this team WILL be a true contender.

One other thing. I guess we\'ll all see this week how valuable Brooks truly is to this team. It sounds like he won\'t play. On the one hand, you want Bouman to light it up, eliminate the dumb mistakes, and help this team make a push for the playoffs. However, if he does that, you\'ve got a MAJOR QB controversy on your hands. After the Saints ran Delhomme out of town after not giving him a shot. If a guy who is apparently a \"lesser\" backup can have as much success as Brooks did as a starter both Brooks and Haslett will be on the hot seat BIG time!! So really, it\'s lose lose for the Brooks/Haslett clan. If the Saints fail with Bouman, seasons over. If they flourish, then Haslett and Brooks will get major criticism for both guys decisions and play over the last two years.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

BillyC

Enjoy while ya can WhoDat. I\'ll be back to calling y\'all out again real soon...

What amazes me on here is the lack of talk about the offensive line. Gator has been one of the only memebers that has constantly talked about the poor offensive line play. I just heard John Madden say and I quote -- \"When an offense is inconsistant you can usually point to the offensive line and you don\'t need to go any further.\" He then went on to say that the offensive line has to play together for at least a year and usually more to keep from making stupid mistakes.

Year in and year out we have a different starting offensive line. I\'ve been saying it and I will keep saying that EVERYTHING starts with the offensive and defensive line. You get good protection in the passing game and even an average QB will shine. You can put an above average QB behind a sub-par offensive line and they will struggle.

Samething with the defensive line. Average linebackers will thrive behind a great D-line. Cornerbacks will play much better with a good pass rush, but you put a bad D-line on the field and it will cause other areas to suffer.

I don\'t remember exactly what Gator said earlier but it was something to the effect that there is too much player turnover with the Saints. I couldn\'t agree more !!

We need consistancy and it damn sure couldn\'t hurt to return more players to the starting line-up each year !!

[Edited on 25/11/2003 by BillyC]

BillyC

Gator -- The inside of the line is pretty good at opening up some holes for Deuce but the left and right tackles leave something to be desired. Good guards are a dime a dozen in the NFL but good offensive tackles are hard to come by. Especially LEFT tackles. That\'s why you see so many tackles signed in the first round.

Furthermore, if this team needs one yard for a first down, I have no confidence that they will get it. Do you? Good offensive lines impose their will on the defense. Remember the Cowboy\'s O-line? The one Emmit used to run behind? Too many times I see an instant pass rush in the Saints backfield. Don\'t kid yourself. This offensive line is not that good.

saintz08

I would not go with negative Gator .

That\'s my job .....

It would be way too easy to flame Brooks for the loses , but then I would have to spend the rest of the week trying to get Saintsfan off of the cross he is so eager to climb up on .

For a team to play together from the 1st quarter to the 4th takes leadership and commitment . Brooks has certain skills at the quarterback position , leadership is not one of them .