WhoDat

I don\'t know Billy. I would say that D-line is the strongest part of our defense. Howard, Grant, Whitehead, Sullivan, and Grady have all played pretty well this year. Our linebackers are just that bad.

Same goes for our offense. Our line isn\'t the greatest, but they are NOT bad either. Just b/c Madden (who I think is going senile anyway - if he isn\'t there already) said something on the Monday Night game does not mean it applies to us. Deuce is one of the best running backs in the league, and while he does do A LOT on his own after first contact, the line has done about as good as any other team\'s line in run blocking. In pass protection they had some problems early, but have been pretty damn solid since then. It\'s not like Brooks is running for his life getting hit 20 times a game back there. Most of his passes come when he\'s standing up straight in a well-formed pocket. At least, that\'s what I see.

I have a really hard time blaming either line for the Saints poor play. To me, the major fault on offense is splread between injured and underacheiving WRs, an inconsistent QB, and poor playcalling for most of the year (although you have to admit it\'s been pretty damn good of recent).

On D, we just get worse the farther you get from the line. LBs, CBs, and Safeties could all go (minus D Rodgers and Victor Green in my mind), and I wouldn\'t bat an eyelash. The coordinator is stil the biggest problem with that D. Sorry to the guys who have gotten all warm and fuzzy about Venturi since the D played well against Atlanta and Tampa, but he hasn\'t gotten any better and neither has the D, and VENTURI is STILL the biggest reason why.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

BillyC

The offensive line is as inconsistant as any part of the team IMO. Sure, they have better games than others, but they break down in pass protection too much for my liking. Then there is the little matter of penalties. Too many presnap penalties, too many holding calls. While I don\'t take everything Madden says as \"the gospel\" the guy does know his football and I agree with him about the offensive line causing offenses to be inconsistant. Madden was talking about the Giants offense being able to move the ball at will on offense but not being able to finish drives off. It\'s easy to blame the QB and Brooks has his share of the blame, but there are 10-more guys on the field and 5 of them are offensive linemen.

Here are 4 teams with the least amount of penalties :

Seattle 61
Indianapolis 61
Kansas City 54
Green Bay 51

It looks like these teams have consistant offenses that finish off drives. Now let\'s look at some of the most penalized teams.

Here are 4 team with the most penalties :


Pittsburgh 85
Houston 84
Arizona 82
New Orleans 78

I\'ll bet ya that these teams with the most penalties have inconsistant offenses that are faced with long yardage situations because if penalties. Stats do lie a lot of times but the stats on penalties don\'t lie. Some teams might overcome them better than others, but not many....








[Edited on 25/11/2003 by BillyC]

pakowitz

your right billy they do break down in pass protection, but only b/c brooks holds onto the ball for over 5 seconds, he sits there and looks over the whole field slowly, he stays in the pocket, and stands there looking clueless, and thats y they break down, no one can be expected to hold their blocks for over 5 seconds, the D lines in this league are just too good. but i will say this, you are right about the penalties, we get more false start penalties then anyone in the league. thats just horrible, thats not having dicipline(i.e. bad coaching)

p.s. Walter rasby sucks ass, he should be cut immedietly, im ready to start a rallying cry to start zach hilton, who\'s with me?

I Live In Beastmode!

BillyC

Sure, that happens Pak. But I can\'t even count the times that Brooks get\'s instant pressure and is running for his life back there. Y\'all make me wonder if you even watch the games or could it be that you only like to point out the times that it\'s Brooks\' fault?

I can fault Brooks for holding the ball longer than he should but I\'m not going to pin EVERYTHING on Brooks. The truth is there every Sunday and all you have to do is watch the games..............

pakowitz

its a wonder u actually admitted to him holding onto the ball to long, im not blaming brooks for everything but if YOU actually watch the games, he causes MOST of the problems, not all, but MOST. The truth is Brooks does have talent, ill give him that but he has no heart, he acts as if he doesnt care whether he wins or loses. and its discraceful to all saints fans, players, and coaches, he just doesnt care if he plays well or bad, its all the same to him

BillyC

Pak --

It\'s mostly Brooks fault that he get\'s sacked huh? Do you have something to support that with? How many more times is it Brooks fault? Or is that just the way you preceive it? You got to come with more than that when you make those BOLD statements or you are going to come off looking like one of the Brooks\' bashers.

[Edited on 25/11/2003 by BillyC]

pakowitz

yes billy, it is brooks fault. here is Y. he stands there and waits and waits and waits for someone to get open, he doesnt move around, he just stands there, holding onto the ball, just waiting. he needs to learn how to get rid of the ball quickly, not take a 5 or 7 step drop and then wait, and wait and wait. if he would move around the field, get out of the pocket, make something happen, i wouldnt have a problem with him. he is a mobile qb but he doesnt use it, and i have no clue Y. maybe he is scared of getting hurt, i dont know but what i do know is that he is hesitant to throw the ball.

for example, on the play where he found boo williams by the sideline wide open, and i mean wide open, he first pump faked, Y? what was the reason for pump faking? he was wide open, if he wouldnt have pump faked, williams might have scored but b/c he hesitated, he didnt. so yes. i blame brooks for getting sacked as well as many other things.

I Live In Beastmode!

BillyC

Pak, don\'t get me wrong. Brooks does the things you are talking about. Although, I don\'t think he is near as bad as you try to make it sound, I do agree he makes some STUPID mistakes.

I just think you are trying to pin WAY too much on Brooks and not looking at the overall team play. When you start say stuff like:

It sure seems you have a vendetta against Brooks and you refuse to share the blame. Maybe not Pak, but that\'s the way it appears to me.



[Edited on 25/11/2003 by BillyC]

BlackandBlue

There is little wrong with this offensive line. You can put the blame up front, but overall, they\'ve done better than I had expected, all things considered. Yeah, you can point out several instances where Gandy gave up a sack or Bentley had a lack of concentration and caused a penalty, but overall, this has been a good, solid offensive line. Hell, even Holland is doing well, and he\'s a freaking rookie. Deuce is awesome, but he wouldn\'t be making those runs if it weren\'t for the holes the O-Line were creating for him. You\'d be looking at 2nd and 7 instead of 2nd and 2. I agree with Pak 100%, Aaron does have a tendency to hold on to the ball way to long. It\'s one of the lasting memories I\'ll have of this season: \"Aaron Brooks drops back...and waits...waits...waits...\" Please don\'t interpret this as, \"OMG Brooks sux- we need Manning, OMG OMG OMG,\" cause that\'s not what it is. He has his flaws, but no player is perfect, and he is a decent QB, that if we can get some playmakers in some other positions, won\'t have to worry about his place on this team.

The waiting drove me mad....
I don't want to hear from those that know...
Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed

Eddie is a....draftnik?

BillyC

If you call leading the league in presnap penlties \"little wrong\" then that\'s your call. And not to mention all the holding calls. Hell, it\'s hard enough to go 10-yards much less 15 or 20. That tends to make consistant offenses INCONSISTANT.

That\'s all fine and Dandy, but it has nothing to do with pass blocking. There are so many times when I see instant pressure on Brooks and he scrambles away from it, but it seems no one wants to acknowlege that.


I have already said I agree with him too. How many times do I have to say it. It still doesn\'t mean this offensive line is very consistant with their pass blocking though.

No B&B I don\'t think that in the slightest. I never see you posting anything that is not well thought out, but I just happen not to agree with you on this particular subject 100%.






[Edited on 25/11/2003 by BillyC]