GATORMAN RULES

BlackandBlue · 11-25-2003, 11:32 AM

If you call leading the league in presnap penlties \"little wrong\" then that\'s your call. And not to mention all the holding calls. Hell, it\'s hard enough to go 10-yards much less 15 or 20. That tends to make consistant offenses INCONSISTANT.

This is what made it painful to watch for me in the beginning of the season- all the penalties and turnovers. It was an inner conflict for me, because I knew it was going to take time for the O-Line to gel, as we have 3 new starters, and as a result, penalties would occur, which they have. But can you agree that the problems with the O-Line have lessened as the season has progressed, and now, they seem to have pulled a complete 180 from what they were at the beginning? I remember after the titans game, I seriously thought this would be the worst O-Line in the NFL. Now, I\'d put them in the bottom 5 of the top 15, the way they\'ve been playing lately.

[Edited on 25/11/2003 by BlackandBlue]

pakowitz · 11-25-2003, 11:35 AM

quote:
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There is little wrong with this offensive line.
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If you call leading the league in presnap penlties \"little wrong\" then that\'s your call. And not to mention all the holding calls. Hell, it\'s hard enough to go 10-yards much less 15 or 20. That tends to make consistant offenses INCONSISTANT

your right about that part, but brooks gets plenty of time to throw the ball he just holds on to it way too long

pakowitz · 11-25-2003, 11:37 AM

quote:
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Deuce is awesome, but he wouldn\'t be making those runs if it weren\'t for the holes the O-Line were creating for him
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That\'s all fine and Dandy, but it has nothing to do with pass blocking. There are so many times when I see instant pressure on Brooks and he scrambles away from it, but it seems no one wants to acknowlege that.

are you kidding me? scrambles away from it? i think its you who hasnt been watching the game. maybe, and i mean maybe, he scrambles away from pressure once or twice a game

BillyC · 11-25-2003, 11:47 AM

But can you agree that the problems with the O-Line have lessened as the season has progressed, and now, they seem to have pulled a complete 180 from what they were at the beginning?

Yep, I do agree they are playing much better. My whole point was all the player turnover on the line each year. I\'d like to see them return the same starting line at least one-year. I think that has as much to do with the inconsistant play on the offense as anything. That and Brooks needs to improve.

I want to make a comment on something you said B&B and correct me if I\'m off base here:

Hell, even Holland is doing well, and he\'s a freaking rookie.

Now, I think the run blocking has improved since Holland has been in the line-up. Deuce has his 2-best rushing games since Holland has started. I know in camp that it was reported that Holland was a tremedos run blocker and he certainly seems to be living up to that billing.........

BillyC · 11-25-2003, 11:51 AM

Pak -- We obviously aren\'t going to see eye-to-eye on this subject. Brooks does the things that you are talking about but not nearly to the extent you are trying to suggest.

There\'s much more blame to go around. You should try spreading it around.

Do you have your \" I hate Brooks\" shirt yet?

See 08 if you don\'t --

pakowitz · 11-25-2003, 12:02 PM

i dont hate brooks, i want him to reach his potential, i think he can be a superstar but he doesnt play smart, and that is what costs us football games, he plays like an idiot, and if he continues to do that, he must be benched or replaced.

BillyC · 11-25-2003, 12:10 PM

i dont hate brooks, i want him to reach his potential, i think he can be a superstar but he doesnt play smart, and that is what costs us football games, he plays like an idiot, and if he continues to do that, he must be benched or replaced.

Ok that\'s fair. But, I see some other things that enter into the picture here. Brooks sits in the pocket too long right? Well, I think part of the reason is that our receivers are covered and he\'s trying to wait for them to come open. When Donte\' is not in the game, teams double Joe Horn and Paython isn\'t the best in the world at beating single coverage. I know he could throw the ball away and needs to do that more, but it\'s hard for me to fault a QB too much for hanging in the pocket tough and be willing to take a hit to complete as pass. He needs to be more aware of the pass rush and protect the ball better though.

QB\'s are going to get sacked in this league, and Brooks doesn\'t get sacked anymore than other QB\'s and avoids more sacks than some folks might think, but he needs to improve in the areas that you are talking about.

BlackandBlue · 11-25-2003, 12:14 PM

My whole point was all the player turnover on the line each year.

Hopefully, with this past years draft, you\'ll see this lessened, unless we go through another unexpected fire sale. If they can pick up a good tackle in this next years draft, they should be set for a long time to come. But the tackle position must be addressed in next years draft. Not for immediate help, but it\'s time to plan for the future at that position. 3rd rounder with potential would make me happy.
Holland is heralded because of his run blocking skills, you are right. And while his pass blocking skills may not be as good, think about it. Aaron Brooks doesn\'t scare opposing teams, Deuce does, and he needs all the help he can get in that case.

[Edited on 25/11/2003 by BlackandBlue]

pakowitz · 11-25-2003, 12:22 PM

Aaron Brooks doesn\'t scare opposing teams, Deuce does, and he needs all the help he can get in that case

thank you sir, may i have another?

WhoDat · 11-25-2003, 03:20 PM

Here\'s the problem Billy - and please don\'t take this the wrong way as I am NOT attacking you or Brooks. The problem is that a lot of us here see a QB that has improved in a number of areas, but the bottom line is that there\'s alwas something. In the beginning of the year he was still throwing poorly. Chalk that up to an injury hang-over, rust, still not fully recovered, whatever. Now he\'s giving the ball away like he\'s St. Nick and our opponents are poor little orphan children. The receivers haven\'t played well, the O-line\'s penalties have hurt us, but from where I\'m sitting, Brooks is the biggest problem... still... again, in terms of on-field execution.

AB has not been sacked much this year. He has not been pressured a whole lot either, even against defenses like Philly\'s, Tampa\'s, Tennessee\'s, Carolina\'s, and Seattle\'s. Those a GOOD defenses, and I would say the protection right now is better than it was this time last season. So is the run blocking.

The reason you get into arguments, which you very well may look for, is b/c when we criticize Brooks for the poor play that a whole lot of us see, you and your one partner in crime come running in to blame the line one week, the receivers the next, the defense another week, playcalling this time, special teams that time. You\'re always pointing somewhere different while most of us keep one finger pointed at Brooks, another at the coaches, and a third at the whole rest of the team. I\'m not saying it\'s right or wrong, but I will say that the fact that so many people see the same thing I see reinforces my position. Hell, my buddy, who is a huge Detroit fan, has sat next to me and hasn\'t missed a Saints game in three years, and that guy rips Brooks much harder than I do. If all these people on this board see it, if the media grumbles about it, and if people who have no emotional or sensational value or attachment see it, then to me, it\'s pretty hard to deny.

11-25-2003, 11:32 AM	#41
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	GATORMAN RULES If you call leading the league in presnap penlties \"little wrong\" then that\'s your call. And not to mention all the holding calls. Hell, it\'s hard enough to go 10-yards much less 15 or 20. That tends to make consistant offenses INCONSISTANT. This is what made it painful to watch for me in the beginning of the season- all the penalties and turnovers. It was an inner conflict for me, because I knew it was going to take time for the O-Line to gel, as we have 3 new starters, and as a result, penalties would occur, which they have. But can you agree that the problems with the O-Line have lessened as the season has progressed, and now, they seem to have pulled a complete 180 from what they were at the beginning? I remember after the titans game, I seriously thought this would be the worst O-Line in the NFL. Now, I\'d put them in the bottom 5 of the top 15, the way they\'ve been playing lately. [Edited on 25/11/2003 by BlackandBlue]
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

11-25-2003, 11:35 AM	#42
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	GATORMAN RULES quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is little wrong with this offensive line. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you call leading the league in presnap penlties \"little wrong\" then that\'s your call. And not to mention all the holding calls. Hell, it\'s hard enough to go 10-yards much less 15 or 20. That tends to make consistant offenses INCONSISTANT your right about that part, but brooks gets plenty of time to throw the ball he just holds on to it way too long

11-25-2003, 11:37 AM	#43
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	GATORMAN RULES quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deuce is awesome, but he wouldn\'t be making those runs if it weren\'t for the holes the O-Line were creating for him -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That\'s all fine and Dandy, but it has nothing to do with pass blocking. There are so many times when I see instant pressure on Brooks and he scrambles away from it, but it seems no one wants to acknowlege that. are you kidding me? scrambles away from it? i think its you who hasnt been watching the game. maybe, and i mean maybe, he scrambles away from pressure once or twice a game

11-25-2003, 11:47 AM	#44
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	GATORMAN RULES But can you agree that the problems with the O-Line have lessened as the season has progressed, and now, they seem to have pulled a complete 180 from what they were at the beginning? Yep, I do agree they are playing much better. My whole point was all the player turnover on the line each year. I\'d like to see them return the same starting line at least one-year. I think that has as much to do with the inconsistant play on the offense as anything. That and Brooks needs to improve. I want to make a comment on something you said B&B and correct me if I\'m off base here: Hell, even Holland is doing well, and he\'s a freaking rookie. Now, I think the run blocking has improved since Holland has been in the line-up. Deuce has his 2-best rushing games since Holland has started. I know in camp that it was reported that Holland was a tremedos run blocker and he certainly seems to be living up to that billing.........
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-25-2003, 11:51 AM	#45
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	GATORMAN RULES Pak -- We obviously aren\'t going to see eye-to-eye on this subject. Brooks does the things that you are talking about but not nearly to the extent you are trying to suggest. There\'s much more blame to go around. You should try spreading it around. Do you have your \" I hate Brooks\" shirt yet? See 08 if you don\'t --
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

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11-25-2003, 12:02 PM	#46
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	GATORMAN RULES i dont hate brooks, i want him to reach his potential, i think he can be a superstar but he doesnt play smart, and that is what costs us football games, he plays like an idiot, and if he continues to do that, he must be benched or replaced.

11-25-2003, 12:10 PM	#47
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	GATORMAN RULES i dont hate brooks, i want him to reach his potential, i think he can be a superstar but he doesnt play smart, and that is what costs us football games, he plays like an idiot, and if he continues to do that, he must be benched or replaced. Ok that\'s fair. But, I see some other things that enter into the picture here. Brooks sits in the pocket too long right? Well, I think part of the reason is that our receivers are covered and he\'s trying to wait for them to come open. When Donte\' is not in the game, teams double Joe Horn and Paython isn\'t the best in the world at beating single coverage. I know he could throw the ball away and needs to do that more, but it\'s hard for me to fault a QB too much for hanging in the pocket tough and be willing to take a hit to complete as pass. He needs to be more aware of the pass rush and protect the ball better though. QB\'s are going to get sacked in this league, and Brooks doesn\'t get sacked anymore than other QB\'s and avoids more sacks than some folks might think, but he needs to improve in the areas that you are talking about.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-25-2003, 12:14 PM	#48
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	GATORMAN RULES My whole point was all the player turnover on the line each year. Hopefully, with this past years draft, you\'ll see this lessened, unless we go through another unexpected fire sale. If they can pick up a good tackle in this next years draft, they should be set for a long time to come. But the tackle position must be addressed in next years draft. Not for immediate help, but it\'s time to plan for the future at that position. 3rd rounder with potential would make me happy. Holland is heralded because of his run blocking skills, you are right. And while his pass blocking skills may not be as good, think about it. Aaron Brooks doesn\'t scare opposing teams, Deuce does, and he needs all the help he can get in that case. [Edited on 25/11/2003 by BlackandBlue]
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

11-25-2003, 12:22 PM	#49
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	GATORMAN RULES Aaron Brooks doesn\'t scare opposing teams, Deuce does, and he needs all the help he can get in that case thank you sir, may i have another?

11-25-2003, 03:20 PM	#50
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES Here\'s the problem Billy - and please don\'t take this the wrong way as I am NOT attacking you or Brooks. The problem is that a lot of us here see a QB that has improved in a number of areas, but the bottom line is that there\'s alwas something. In the beginning of the year he was still throwing poorly. Chalk that up to an injury hang-over, rust, still not fully recovered, whatever. Now he\'s giving the ball away like he\'s St. Nick and our opponents are poor little orphan children. The receivers haven\'t played well, the O-line\'s penalties have hurt us, but from where I\'m sitting, Brooks is the biggest problem... still... again, in terms of on-field execution. AB has not been sacked much this year. He has not been pressured a whole lot either, even against defenses like Philly\'s, Tampa\'s, Tennessee\'s, Carolina\'s, and Seattle\'s. Those a GOOD defenses, and I would say the protection right now is better than it was this time last season. So is the run blocking. The reason you get into arguments, which you very well may look for, is b/c when we criticize Brooks for the poor play that a whole lot of us see, you and your one partner in crime come running in to blame the line one week, the receivers the next, the defense another week, playcalling this time, special teams that time. You\'re always pointing somewhere different while most of us keep one finger pointed at Brooks, another at the coaches, and a third at the whole rest of the team. I\'m not saying it\'s right or wrong, but I will say that the fact that so many people see the same thing I see reinforces my position. Hell, my buddy, who is a huge Detroit fan, has sat next to me and hasn\'t missed a Saints game in three years, and that guy rips Brooks much harder than I do. If all these people on this board see it, if the media grumbles about it, and if people who have no emotional or sensational value or attachment see it, then to me, it\'s pretty hard to deny.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"