Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes,

saintz08 · 12-01-2003, 08:42 PM

JKool

Leadership: how exactly do you evaluate that? It is clear to me, as I noted before, that Brooks is AT BEST half a leader, since clearly he isn\'t the guy everyone rallies around on the sideline, who gives the emotional speech, or even utters the battle cry.

Here are 2 undisputable Saints notes :

1. At the end of last year the New Orleans Saints invested team money to send Brooks to a Leadership class .

2. One of the outstanding points to discredit Turley was his tendency to call Brooks out on his play and challenge him .

How much leadership ability do you think Brooks has if the Saints have to send him to school for it and trade player who call him on it ?????
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think that Hasselbeckwill last long or be a good leader if he reapeats those comments week after week?

How good of a leader or how long will he last if he chooses to blame others ??

Here is a cut from Sporting News report :

QB Aaron Brooks has improved in several areas this season, including completion percentage and decision making. But he needs to raise his level of play down the stretch and become a more dynamic force on and off the field. His easy-going personality can be a liability for an offense that often lacks direction and focus. Brooks also must overcome his troubling tendency to make mistakes, especially early in games, which have put the Saints in early holes in recent weeks.

[Edited on 2/12/2003 by saintz08]

JKool · 12-01-2003, 10:02 PM

Half fast, yes.

I was not aware that Brooks was blaming others for the losses. I thought he was simply not taking responsibility - in the case of the Redskins, he credited them (as laughable as that is), but, AS FAR AS I KNOW, he was not blaming other Saints for the loss. At any rate, I don\'t think Hasselbeck would last long blaming others either - but the point remains that simply taking the blame isn\'t obviously the best strategy. Given my current \"short memory\" theory of Quaterbacking, I see no reason that Brooks should accept the blame for our boys\' troubles. It is the coaching staff\'s job to smarten him up in that area before, during, and after games.

Point taken that Brooks, if he is to be Half fast

he needs to produce more dynamically on the field. I concede that point. While I still maintain that the \"Brooks leadership question is a red-herring\", I am now willing to grant that he has not displayed any leadership of the vocal-focused kind, and that he has not done enough to display his lead-by-example leadership (in terms of creating big plays and \"dyanmics\" of any kind). Though I do think that is a helpful distinction in our discussion of Brooks\' leadership qualities (or lack thereof).

Cheers.

Saintsfan4ever · 12-02-2003, 02:47 AM

After a few positve performances from Brooks this season and the Saints were 5-5 on the season. A pre-game comintator asked former Saints\' fullback Hokie Gajan (46) \"Do you still think Aaron Brooks is NOT the QB to take the Saints to he next level?\". Hokie replied \"Yes, I still don`t believe Brooks can take this team to the next level\".
I sure wish Hokie would have went further in explaining why he felt that way, because I feel the same way. If someone asked me to explain why I felt that way about Brooks I could go on a rampage about leadership, poor decisions, not picking up the blitz..bla bla bla.....but HONESTLY, what it really boils down to for me is... I just think he`s DUMB. The lowest common denominator of why Brooks is consistently inconsistent is simply ... he`s just not very bright.period.
I praise Brooks when he does well...I pull for him every snap....I stand and scream for him in the Dome every home game, but in the back of my mind I know any moment he can blow-it with flying colors.... because he lacks the mental ability to play consistent SMART football that the QB position requires in this league to win championships.... Thats my opinion. sorry.

saintfan · 12-02-2003, 07:58 AM

Perhaps your blind faith of Brooks will actually reach fruition but, for the most part, this offense has gotten worse the longer he sets up behind center. You can argue forever but facts is facts...

That\'s pretty typical for a post on this web site Blake. Gotta leave that door open huh? It\'s ok. I understand. Armchair QB\'s are well known for it.

I comprehended Jkool\'s posts just fine sir. I\'ll gladly debate any topic with you at the very moment you give me some indication that you\'re watching the whole game and the whole team ok? Fair is fair. Guess I won\'t have to worry about responding to your posts for a while then eh?

WhoDat · 12-02-2003, 10:44 AM

That\'s right, I forgot. Billy and Saintfan are the ONLY two guys on this ENTIRE board watching the WHOLE game. Good thing we\'ve got those two to show us the light.

Let me ask you two a question - will you admit that you\'re wrong and give up on this argument if Haslett is fired and Brooks is no longer the starter within the next 18 months? That basically means by the end of next season. Will that be enough, or will you keep talking about how great Brooks is even after he\'s lost the starting spot?

saintz08 · 12-02-2003, 10:56 AM

Who Dat

Does that include the scenario , where Haslett opts out of his contract and gets to become the Head Coach in Buffalo ???

saintfan · 12-02-2003, 10:56 AM

We may be the only two guys left on this site that are willing to place blame honestly Whodat. It is not me wearing the blinders my man, it\'s you and the rest of you who singularly place the blame for every loss on the shoulders of Aaron Brooks.

By having a difference of opinion with you here JOESAM will likely intervene and put and end to the debate but I\'ll post anyway.

You are as guilty as anyone of trying to use statistics to prove your point of view when it\'s common knowledge that statistics can be use to prove just about anything. The Saints are loosing games for a variety of reasons and none solely the fault of Aaron Brooks. As I\'ve said numerous times before, I have NEVER indicated that Brooks would end up in the Hall of Fame, but by supporting him the rest of you ASSUME I take that angle and you make that assumption regarding ANYONE who doesn\'t think Brooks is the SOLE reason for the Saints problems.

Listen to 08 and there\'s a conspiracy theroy. Listen to Gator and the problems with our defense are the sole responsibility of the offense. Others think Brooks is just not smart. You and others here pass your opinions off as fact, and when challenged ultimately the Moderator steps in...see the trend? YOU PEOPLE, the \"TANG CLAN\" or whatever it\'s called are the ones with a singular view, and you\'ve managed to make it the general consensus of this board with only a few exceptions.

I\'ll submit to you here what I submitted on another thread before JOESAM got nervous. How can it be that 5 or 6 guys on this little web site know more about the NFL and judging talent and what REALLY goes on throughout the course of a game than the Saints management? You guys quite obviously have a very different opinion of the Saints team than that of Haz or anyone currently on the Saints payroll. Ask yourself, on which side of the debate is the experience? See my point? I\'m sure you don\'t.

[Edited on 2/12/2003 by saintfan]

saintz08 · 12-02-2003, 11:15 AM

How can it be that 5 or 6 guys on this little web site know more about the NFL and judging talent and what REALLY goes on throughout the course of a game than the Saints management?

Are these the same guys that bring in 20+ new players per year , to replace the ones that did not work out from the previous year ???

saintfan · 12-02-2003, 11:30 AM

Yup. They are the same guys 08. To think that you (what do you do for a living?) know more about what\'s really going on during the games (I\'m guessing you don\'t have a space reserved in the press box) or have a better formula for evaluating talent (you do know you don\'t right?) than people who actually make their living in the NFL either playing or coaching is nothing short of silly. By your statement (not an answer by the way) to my question I\'ll guess you\'re of the opinion they should have KEPT those players that weren\'t working? But WAIT, some of those players are on teams having some success right? Ahhhh, I forgot that little nugget. Hmmmm, are you the very person who\'s tried to make us beleive that ONE player doesn\'t make that much difference? Thought so. Tell that to the Jets, or the Flacons. Spin it baby, cause that\'s all you got!

But, then, I\'m wasting my time here. It is pointless to get you people to concede when you\'re just not gonna. I\'ve seen the most of you crawfish more than an actual crawfish. Ya\'ll are funny really, and as long as I view you that way I\'ll stay sane. I may ultimately get booted because I don\'t agree, but I\'ll leave with my sanity firmly intact knowing I didn\'t give in. The ignorance is spreading here. That much I can be sure about. This must be where armchair QB\'s go to die.

blake6900 · 12-02-2003, 11:58 AM

That\'s pretty typical for a post on this web site Blake. Gotta leave that door open huh? It\'s ok. I understand. Armchair QB\'s are well known for it.

I comprehended Jkool\'s posts just fine sir. I\'ll gladly debate any topic with you at the very moment you give me some indication that you\'re watching the whole game and the whole team ok? Fair is fair. Guess I won\'t have to worry about responding to your posts for a while then eh?

I \"leave that door open\" because there are no absolutes. After all, AB could actually learn to read a defense or throw a screen pass. One just never knows, does one? Oh, I forgot, you do...

BTW, I\'m not concerned about debating you because, clearly, you possess no skills in that regard. Your automatic response to any criticism of Brooks is well-documented but, sadly, not based in fact. You make wild claims of what I (and others) have said and then go on to respond to those claims as if they were actually put forward. Obviously, you\'re not going to let the facts get in the way of your defense of a talented yet still lacking quarterback.

I\'ve never said, nor implied, that AB is the root of all the Saints\' problems and your claim that I have is either oversight or purposely disingenous. What I have said is benching him is a step toward pointing this team in the right direction. You have admitted in the past that AB has certain flaws but believe the other inadaquacies that exist on the Saints are more pressing, or at least more responsible for their abysmal play. Fair enough...we both agree Brooks has some certain flaws.

You and I can disagree to our heart\'s content about Aaron Brooks but one thing\'s for sure: At a million five a year, we ain\'t gettin\' our money\'s worth, OK?!

12-01-2003, 08:42 PM	#11
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, JKool Leadership: how exactly do you evaluate that? It is clear to me, as I noted before, that Brooks is AT BEST half a leader, since clearly he isn\'t the guy everyone rallies around on the sideline, who gives the emotional speech, or even utters the battle cry. Here are 2 undisputable Saints notes : 1. At the end of last year the New Orleans Saints invested team money to send Brooks to a Leadership class . 2. One of the outstanding points to discredit Turley was his tendency to call Brooks out on his play and challenge him . How much leadership ability do you think Brooks has if the Saints have to send him to school for it and trade player who call him on it ????? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you think that Hasselbeckwill last long or be a good leader if he reapeats those comments week after week? How good of a leader or how long will he last if he chooses to blame others ?? Here is a cut from Sporting News report : QB Aaron Brooks has improved in several areas this season, including completion percentage and decision making. But he needs to raise his level of play down the stretch and become a more dynamic force on and off the field. His easy-going personality can be a liability for an offense that often lacks direction and focus. Brooks also must overcome his troubling tendency to make mistakes, especially early in games, which have put the Saints in early holes in recent weeks. [Edited on 2/12/2003 by saintz08]
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

12-01-2003, 10:02 PM	#12
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, Half fast, yes. I was not aware that Brooks was blaming others for the losses. I thought he was simply not taking responsibility - in the case of the Redskins, he credited them (as laughable as that is), but, AS FAR AS I KNOW, he was not blaming other Saints for the loss. At any rate, I don\'t think Hasselbeck would last long blaming others either - but the point remains that simply taking the blame isn\'t obviously the best strategy. Given my current \"short memory\" theory of Quaterbacking, I see no reason that Brooks should accept the blame for our boys\' troubles. It is the coaching staff\'s job to smarten him up in that area before, during, and after games. Point taken that Brooks, if he is to be Half fast he needs to produce more dynamically on the field. I concede that point. While I still maintain that the \"Brooks leadership question is a red-herring\", I am now willing to grant that he has not displayed any leadership of the vocal-focused kind, and that he has not done enough to display his lead-by-example leadership (in terms of creating big plays and \"dyanmics\" of any kind). Though I do think that is a helpful distinction in our discussion of Brooks\' leadership qualities (or lack thereof). Cheers.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

12-02-2003, 02:47 AM	#13
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, After a few positve performances from Brooks this season and the Saints were 5-5 on the season. A pre-game comintator asked former Saints\' fullback Hokie Gajan (46) \"Do you still think Aaron Brooks is NOT the QB to take the Saints to he next level?\". Hokie replied \"Yes, I still don`t believe Brooks can take this team to the next level\". I sure wish Hokie would have went further in explaining why he felt that way, because I feel the same way. If someone asked me to explain why I felt that way about Brooks I could go on a rampage about leadership, poor decisions, not picking up the blitz..bla bla bla.....but HONESTLY, what it really boils down to for me is... I just think he`s DUMB. The lowest common denominator of why Brooks is consistently inconsistent is simply ... he`s just not very bright.period. I praise Brooks when he does well...I pull for him every snap....I stand and scream for him in the Dome every home game, but in the back of my mind I know any moment he can blow-it with flying colors.... because he lacks the mental ability to play consistent SMART football that the QB position requires in this league to win championships.... Thats my opinion. sorry.
	Saint4

12-02-2003, 07:58 AM	#14
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, Perhaps your blind faith of Brooks will actually reach fruition but, for the most part, this offense has gotten worse the longer he sets up behind center. You can argue forever but facts is facts... That\'s pretty typical for a post on this web site Blake. Gotta leave that door open huh? It\'s ok. I understand. Armchair QB\'s are well known for it. I comprehended Jkool\'s posts just fine sir. I\'ll gladly debate any topic with you at the very moment you give me some indication that you\'re watching the whole game and the whole team ok? Fair is fair. Guess I won\'t have to worry about responding to your posts for a while then eh?

12-02-2003, 10:44 AM	#15
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, That\'s right, I forgot. Billy and Saintfan are the ONLY two guys on this ENTIRE board watching the WHOLE game. Good thing we\'ve got those two to show us the light. Let me ask you two a question - will you admit that you\'re wrong and give up on this argument if Haslett is fired and Brooks is no longer the starter within the next 18 months? That basically means by the end of next season. Will that be enough, or will you keep talking about how great Brooks is even after he\'s lost the starting spot?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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12-02-2003, 10:56 AM	#16
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, Who Dat Does that include the scenario , where Haslett opts out of his contract and gets to become the Head Coach in Buffalo ???
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

12-02-2003, 11:15 AM	#18
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, How can it be that 5 or 6 guys on this little web site know more about the NFL and judging talent and what REALLY goes on throughout the course of a game than the Saints management? Are these the same guys that bring in 20+ new players per year , to replace the ones that did not work out from the previous year ???
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

12-02-2003, 11:30 AM	#19
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, Yup. They are the same guys 08. To think that you (what do you do for a living?) know more about what\'s really going on during the games (I\'m guessing you don\'t have a space reserved in the press box) or have a better formula for evaluating talent (you do know you don\'t right?) than people who actually make their living in the NFL either playing or coaching is nothing short of silly. By your statement (not an answer by the way) to my question I\'ll guess you\'re of the opinion they should have KEPT those players that weren\'t working? But WAIT, some of those players are on teams having some success right? Ahhhh, I forgot that little nugget. Hmmmm, are you the very person who\'s tried to make us beleive that ONE player doesn\'t make that much difference? Thought so. Tell that to the Jets, or the Flacons. Spin it baby, cause that\'s all you got! But, then, I\'m wasting my time here. It is pointless to get you people to concede when you\'re just not gonna. I\'ve seen the most of you crawfish more than an actual crawfish. Ya\'ll are funny really, and as long as I view you that way I\'ll stay sane. I may ultimately get booted because I don\'t agree, but I\'ll leave with my sanity firmly intact knowing I didn\'t give in. The ignorance is spreading here. That much I can be sure about. This must be where armchair QB\'s go to die.
	C'mon Man...

12-02-2003, 11:58 AM	#20
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182	Horn drops 1, Brooks throws the usual number of bad passes, That\'s pretty typical for a post on this web site Blake. Gotta leave that door open huh? It\'s ok. I understand. Armchair QB\'s are well known for it. I comprehended Jkool\'s posts just fine sir. I\'ll gladly debate any topic with you at the very moment you give me some indication that you\'re watching the whole game and the whole team ok? Fair is fair. Guess I won\'t have to worry about responding to your posts for a while then eh? I \"leave that door open\" because there are no absolutes. After all, AB could actually learn to read a defense or throw a screen pass. One just never knows, does one? Oh, I forgot, you do... BTW, I\'m not concerned about debating you because, clearly, you possess no skills in that regard. Your automatic response to any criticism of Brooks is well-documented but, sadly, not based in fact. You make wild claims of what I (and others) have said and then go on to respond to those claims as if they were actually put forward. Obviously, you\'re not going to let the facts get in the way of your defense of a talented yet still lacking quarterback. I\'ve never said, nor implied, that AB is the root of all the Saints\' problems and your claim that I have is either oversight or purposely disingenous. What I have said is benching him is a step toward pointing this team in the right direction. You have admitted in the past that AB has certain flaws but believe the other inadaquacies that exist on the Saints are more pressing, or at least more responsible for their abysmal play. Fair enough...we both agree Brooks has some certain flaws. You and I can disagree to our heart\'s content about Aaron Brooks but one thing\'s for sure: At a million five a year, we ain\'t gettin\' our money\'s worth, OK?!
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182