Saints reach 4 year deal(12 million) with Pierre Thomas

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-03-2011, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

Well there are some other things you have to consider. PT has the sight, which is very rare in a RB. Faster stronger RB's don't mean anything if they don't have the sight. Ivory does not have the sight.
If you watch PT's footage he knows were guys are and how to move without thinking, you dont have time to think when running the ball. To me its an art form, your dealing 10ths of a second. Its a gift , you either have it or you dont, and PT has it. He might be slow and not as strong as people would like, but he also has a chip on his shoulder, another quality in a good RB. His ball control is amazing. I think the only thing hes missing as a RB is balance, he seems to struggle because of his brick build.

PT is a solid acquisition for 4 years. He could be rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll. I think he's one of the most underrated RB's in the NFL.

YouTube - Pierre Thomas Highlights 2009

You can pull up all the footage you want from 2 seasons ago and talk about how artful he is all you want. It doesn't change that fact that Thomas with his "gift" of sight averaged 3.2 yards per carry last year while the blind Ivory averaged 5.2 (not that I'm hyping Ivory as a savior, but you brought him up). You say Thomas could be "rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll." What makes you think Pierre is capable of holding the lead role himself for even one year when he hasn't been able to do that once in any of the four seasons he was given a chance to? Do you think he's suddenly going to be back better, stronger and more durable next year after suffering TWO serious ankle injuries this year?

Look, I think Thomas is a fine back and I'm not going to knock on any of his accomplishments. Having him on the team is a good thing. But IMO he, and all of the other backs on the team, owe most of their success because other teams were more worried about (i.e. gearing to stop) the passing attack than the running attack. On a cold, windy day when passing is tough, or on short yardage situations when a run is likely the Saints have had trouble converting.

PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not.

pherein · 03-04-2011, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL

PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not.

Chris Ivory NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Pierre Thomas NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Steven Jackson NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call, and Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didnt improve that stat either.

IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you.
Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that.
Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving.
Thomas in 2009 did better than Ivory this year, way better because Ivory had almost no receiving yards.

The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either.
12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven.

Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board.

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-04-2011, 06:35 PM

I appreciate the explanation.

Originally Posted by pherein

I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call,

I was hardly basing everything on this one stat. It was a reply to your comment about how artful PT is and his superior vision skills over Ivory. Since you brought up how much better PT is, I wanted to point out Ivory's YPC advantage. Simple as that. I even state I'm not sold on Ivory.

Originally Posted by pherein

Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didn’t improve that stat either.

Originally Posted by pherein

IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you.
Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that.
Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving.

These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can.

Originally Posted by pherein

The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either.
12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven.

True, the Saints spread the ball around on offense, but receivers are different than RBs. There are generally only one or two of them on the field at a time to hand the ball to versus 5 receiving options, so numbers alone explain why receiving stats are more "spread around" than rushing stats. I believe that if Payton had a bell-cow type back he would use that guy enough to get Jackson type yards which, in turn, would help the pass game. Instead he has to use a stable of backs because injury/performance has not enabled one guy to take the job by himself. I don’t believe that Payton wouldn't rather have a guy he can count on for 200-300 carries per season than have to sign guys off practice squads.

Originally Posted by pherein

Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board.

I said earlier in this thread that it's good to have him on the team. But it doesn't excite me because I think the RB position needs an upgrade and re-signing Thomas doesn't provide that. It can be hoped that he will play 12-16 games over the next 4 years and produce what he did in 2008-2009 (50 Rush YPG, 20 Rec YPG, 10 TDs). However coming off the year he did, it’s reasonable to wonder about his ability to produce for the next four years.

pherein · 03-06-2011, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL

I appreciate the explanation..

And I yours, we just differ on our opinion, thats not really so bad.

These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can. .

In a way yes, in a way no. RB's are the most brutalized people playing in the NFL. They make Ref calls to cover QB's, WR, but not the worst hits, and they are on RB's. I told my wife once, I have no sympathy for either, RB's are horrifically sacked every play. RB's endure 250-320 lbs guys hitting them at full speed in the knees, chest,etc. When I ran it became so common for me to get the wind knocked out of me I walked to the huddle normally and still could not breath. Defensive players commonly stand up by putting their knee on your chest, shoulder, or leg, to hurt you or because they are pissed.
The normal life of a RB in the NFL is 3 years, thats how bad it is. Research earl campbell, seriously. The price you pay for being a RB in the NFL is worse than any position. They are always going to be hurt at some point. They are sacked in the worst way every time they run. Then they have to endure the constant yapping of know it all fans, because they cant take the pounding week to week.
You do realize that most RB's send mondays in bed right? Your try taking 3 or more hits from 250-320 lbs guys on your frame every run for 4 yards, with no ref giving a hoot what they do to you. Every run, but they are weak or injury prone?
There isn't a single member on this board that could survive a single run that Thomas or Ivory does without being in a hospital.

Persecutive is important, every RB is in a car crash when they run, some get lucky, some not. Your just saying PT wasn't lucky, last year. I can guarantee you, you will never sign a RB that will not be hurt in the NFL.

If you put all your eggs in one basket and get a Walter Payton, you cant afford other talent. Same mistake Falcons are making. IF turner is out they die. Its better to spread the talent and have 3 guys that = WP. If you lose one you still have game. Thats what payton is doing.

Colston + moore = better than Randy moss in his prime, for 1/2 the money. Plus if you lose one you still have a dimension to your game left. The other team loses Moss there done.

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-08-2011, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

In a way yes, in a way no. RB's are the most brutalized people playing in the NFL. They make Ref calls to cover QB's, WR, but not the worst hits, and they are on RB's. I told my wife once, I have no sympathy for either, RB's are horrifically sacked every play. RB's endure 250-320 lbs guys hitting them at full speed in the knees, chest,etc. When I ran it became so common for me to get the wind knocked out of me I walked to the huddle normally and still could not breath. Defensive players commonly stand up by putting their knee on your chest, shoulder, or leg, to hurt you or because they are pissed.
The normal life of a RB in the NFL is 3 years, thats how bad it is. Research earl campbell, seriously. The price you pay for being a RB in the NFL is worse than any position. They are always going to be hurt at some point. They are sacked in the worst way every time they run. Then they have to endure the constant yapping of know it all fans, because they cant take the pounding week to week.
You do realize that most RB's send mondays in bed right? Your try taking 3 or more hits from 250-320 lbs guys on your frame every run for 4 yards, with no ref giving a hoot what they do to you. Every run, but they are weak or injury prone?
There isn't a single member on this board that could survive a single run that Thomas or Ivory does without being in a hospital.

Persecutive is important, every RB is in a car crash when they run, some get lucky, some not. Your just saying PT wasn't lucky, last year. I can guarantee you, you will never sign a RB that will not be hurt in the NFL.

Again, you are sort of making my point in describing the beating RBs take. No one is doubting the punishment and I'm sure I would not handle a hit from an NFL quality player well (not sure where you pulled this from?). Luck surely has a lot to do with injuries.

But other things do too. Thomas is 5'11" 215 where as Stephen Jackson is 6'2 235. Who would you put your money on getting hurt if these two collided in one of those violent impacts you describe? I know my money is on PT. Physics backs me up on this. You can't control luck. So you may as well control the things you can. You can decide if you want your feature back to be PT's size or SJ's size. I'd prefer SJ's size. Apparently, you want PT's size or think it is not important.

Previous injuries have a lot to do with staying on the field as well. Speaking from the experience of three knee surgeries and two ankle casts, once a lower body part is injured, it does not come back stronger than it was. In fact, rarely does it come back as strong. Couple these things together and I think it likely that PT will see time on the injury list again if he leads the backs in touches next season.

Originally Posted by pherein

If you put all your eggs in one basket and get a Walter Payton, you cant afford other talent. Same mistake Falcons are making. IF turner is out they die. Its better to spread the talent and have 3 guys that = WP. If you lose one you still have game. Thats what payton is doing.

Colston + moore = better than Randy moss in his prime, for 1/2 the money. Plus if you lose one you still have a dimension to your game left. The other team loses Moss there done.

If you use this logic, signing Josh Freeman + Jimmy Clausen = Better than Drew Brees because most NFL QBs get hurt at some point too, right? That must also be why Jerry Rice's teams never did anything and he never had any other good WRs on the team with him.

You may be right when you speculate on why Payton made this roster move. The signing obviously helps the backfield depth. I won't argue that. But I speculate that if you ask Payton or any other NFL head coach if they would rather have a RB corps of Thomas and Ivory vs Walter Payton (or Jackson, or Barry Sanders, etc) and an undrafted rookie (kind of like Ivory!) I'm betting Thomas isn't getting many nods.

Time will tell and I hope I'm dead wrong. But if the team doesn't address the position with something better than a 5th round pick, I foresee relying on a DeShawn Wynn type signing again to fill out the roster and try to get important yards in a cold weather game next season. Sorry if that prospect does not excite me!

Rugby Saint II · 03-09-2011, 10:37 AM

This is one of the better discussions I've seen in a while. Solid points on all sides of this discussion.(That's one of the reasons I love this board)......we have discussions-not arguments! Great intelligent discussion gentlemen.
I do feel the need to comment on the fact that the more you play the tougher you get.......if you can avoid injuries. This is just a personal opinion but I do believe that veteran rugby players(especially flankers) take the same beating every Saturday without pads. I don't mean to brag, that is not the point, but we condition ourselves to take the physical abuse. Anyone seen 300? It's not that barbaric but it's very similar in that the body conditions itself to heal stronger. Although even rugby players spend time on the sidelines wearing a cast and don't always use good judgment. (I actually cut a cast off with a hacksaw one time because my team didn't have enough players.) I feel there is a correlation between toughness and conditioning.
I hope my rants about rugby doesn't get on anybody nerves. Who Dat!

03-03-2011, 07:55 PM	#1
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	Originally Posted by pherein Well there are some other things you have to consider. PT has the sight, which is very rare in a RB. Faster stronger RB's don't mean anything if they don't have the sight. Ivory does not have the sight. If you watch PT's footage he knows were guys are and how to move without thinking, you dont have time to think when running the ball. To me its an art form, your dealing 10ths of a second. Its a gift , you either have it or you dont, and PT has it. He might be slow and not as strong as people would like, but he also has a chip on his shoulder, another quality in a good RB. His ball control is amazing. I think the only thing hes missing as a RB is balance, he seems to struggle because of his brick build. PT is a solid acquisition for 4 years. He could be rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll. I think he's one of the most underrated RB's in the NFL. YouTube - Pierre Thomas Highlights 2009 You can pull up all the footage you want from 2 seasons ago and talk about how artful he is all you want. It doesn't change that fact that Thomas with his "gift" of sight averaged 3.2 yards per carry last year while the blind Ivory averaged 5.2 (not that I'm hyping Ivory as a savior, but you brought him up). You say Thomas could be "rotated to 2nd or 3rd RB in year 3-4 with new talent taking a leading roll." What makes you think Pierre is capable of holding the lead role himself for even one year when he hasn't been able to do that once in any of the four seasons he was given a chance to? Do you think he's suddenly going to be back better, stronger and more durable next year after suffering TWO serious ankle injuries this year? Look, I think Thomas is a fine back and I'm not going to knock on any of his accomplishments. Having him on the team is a good thing. But IMO he, and all of the other backs on the team, owe most of their success because other teams were more worried about (i.e. gearing to stop) the passing attack than the running attack. On a cold, windy day when passing is tough, or on short yardage situations when a run is likely the Saints have had trouble converting. PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not.
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446

03-04-2011, 03:47 PM	#2
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL PT is hardly in the top 10 backs in the league. Signing/drafting a guy like that (a top 10 caliber back) would excite me. But re-signing a guy who missed 10 games last year and averaged 3.2 YPA when he did play, not so much. The Saints had the 5th worst rushing offense in the NFL last year. Let that sink in....5th WORST. If re-signing Thomas is enough to make you and others here jump for joy, rave about his artistic running and shout HELL YEAH!!!!, then good for you. Myself, I have higher hopes and expect more from the front office. If they go into next year planning on PT being the featured back, then I will consider them short sighted, be very disappointed, and will expect them to have continued RB injuries and be searching other team's practice squads for bodies to sign just like they did last year. Time will tell if I am right or not. Chris Ivory NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Pierre Thomas NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Steven Jackson NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call, and Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didnt improve that stat either. IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you. Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that. Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving. Thomas in 2009 did better than Ivory this year, way better because Ivory had almost no receiving yards. The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either. 12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven. Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before.

03-04-2011, 06:35 PM	#3
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	I appreciate the explanation. Originally Posted by pherein I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call, I was hardly basing everything on this one stat. It was a reply to your comment about how artful PT is and his superior vision skills over Ivory. Since you brought up how much better PT is, I wanted to point out Ivory's YPC advantage. Simple as that. I even state I'm not sold on Ivory. Originally Posted by pherein Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didn’t improve that stat either. Originally Posted by pherein IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you. Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that. Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving. These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can. Originally Posted by pherein The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either. 12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven. True, the Saints spread the ball around on offense, but receivers are different than RBs. There are generally only one or two of them on the field at a time to hand the ball to versus 5 receiving options, so numbers alone explain why receiving stats are more "spread around" than rushing stats. I believe that if Payton had a bell-cow type back he would use that guy enough to get Jackson type yards which, in turn, would help the pass game. Instead he has to use a stable of backs because injury/performance has not enabled one guy to take the job by himself. I don’t believe that Payton wouldn't rather have a guy he can count on for 200-300 carries per season than have to sign guys off practice squads. Originally Posted by pherein Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board. I said earlier in this thread that it's good to have him on the team. But it doesn't excite me because I think the RB position needs an upgrade and re-signing Thomas doesn't provide that. It can be hoped that he will play 12-16 games over the next 4 years and produce what he did in 2008-2009 (50 Rush YPG, 20 Rec YPG, 10 TDs). However coming off the year he did, it’s reasonable to wonder about his ability to produce for the next four years.
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446

03-06-2011, 11:03 PM	#4
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL I appreciate the explanation.. And I yours, we just differ on our opinion, thats not really so bad. These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can. . In a way yes, in a way no. RB's are the most brutalized people playing in the NFL. They make Ref calls to cover QB's, WR, but not the worst hits, and they are on RB's. I told my wife once, I have no sympathy for either, RB's are horrifically sacked every play. RB's endure 250-320 lbs guys hitting them at full speed in the knees, chest,etc. When I ran it became so common for me to get the wind knocked out of me I walked to the huddle normally and still could not breath. Defensive players commonly stand up by putting their knee on your chest, shoulder, or leg, to hurt you or because they are pissed. The normal life of a RB in the NFL is 3 years, thats how bad it is. Research earl campbell, seriously. The price you pay for being a RB in the NFL is worse than any position. They are always going to be hurt at some point. They are sacked in the worst way every time they run. Then they have to endure the constant yapping of know it all fans, because they cant take the pounding week to week. You do realize that most RB's send mondays in bed right? Your try taking 3 or more hits from 250-320 lbs guys on your frame every run for 4 yards, with no ref giving a hoot what they do to you. Every run, but they are weak or injury prone? There isn't a single member on this board that could survive a single run that Thomas or Ivory does without being in a hospital. Persecutive is important, every RB is in a car crash when they run, some get lucky, some not. Your just saying PT wasn't lucky, last year. I can guarantee you, you will never sign a RB that will not be hurt in the NFL. If you put all your eggs in one basket and get a Walter Payton, you cant afford other talent. Same mistake Falcons are making. IF turner is out they die. Its better to spread the talent and have 3 guys that = WP. If you lose one you still have game. Thats what payton is doing. Colston + moore = better than Randy moss in his prime, for 1/2 the money. Plus if you lose one you still have a dimension to your game left. The other team loses Moss there done.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before.

03-08-2011, 03:29 PM	#5
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	Originally Posted by pherein In a way yes, in a way no. RB's are the most brutalized people playing in the NFL. They make Ref calls to cover QB's, WR, but not the worst hits, and they are on RB's. I told my wife once, I have no sympathy for either, RB's are horrifically sacked every play. RB's endure 250-320 lbs guys hitting them at full speed in the knees, chest,etc. When I ran it became so common for me to get the wind knocked out of me I walked to the huddle normally and still could not breath. Defensive players commonly stand up by putting their knee on your chest, shoulder, or leg, to hurt you or because they are pissed. The normal life of a RB in the NFL is 3 years, thats how bad it is. Research earl campbell, seriously. The price you pay for being a RB in the NFL is worse than any position. They are always going to be hurt at some point. They are sacked in the worst way every time they run. Then they have to endure the constant yapping of know it all fans, because they cant take the pounding week to week. You do realize that most RB's send mondays in bed right? Your try taking 3 or more hits from 250-320 lbs guys on your frame every run for 4 yards, with no ref giving a hoot what they do to you. Every run, but they are weak or injury prone? There isn't a single member on this board that could survive a single run that Thomas or Ivory does without being in a hospital. Persecutive is important, every RB is in a car crash when they run, some get lucky, some not. Your just saying PT wasn't lucky, last year. I can guarantee you, you will never sign a RB that will not be hurt in the NFL. Again, you are sort of making my point in describing the beating RBs take. No one is doubting the punishment and I'm sure I would not handle a hit from an NFL quality player well (not sure where you pulled this from?). Luck surely has a lot to do with injuries. But other things do too. Thomas is 5'11" 215 where as Stephen Jackson is 6'2 235. Who would you put your money on getting hurt if these two collided in one of those violent impacts you describe? I know my money is on PT. Physics backs me up on this. You can't control luck. So you may as well control the things you can. You can decide if you want your feature back to be PT's size or SJ's size. I'd prefer SJ's size. Apparently, you want PT's size or think it is not important. Previous injuries have a lot to do with staying on the field as well. Speaking from the experience of three knee surgeries and two ankle casts, once a lower body part is injured, it does not come back stronger than it was. In fact, rarely does it come back as strong. Couple these things together and I think it likely that PT will see time on the injury list again if he leads the backs in touches next season. Originally Posted by pherein If you put all your eggs in one basket and get a Walter Payton, you cant afford other talent. Same mistake Falcons are making. IF turner is out they die. Its better to spread the talent and have 3 guys that = WP. If you lose one you still have game. Thats what payton is doing. Colston + moore = better than Randy moss in his prime, for 1/2 the money. Plus if you lose one you still have a dimension to your game left. The other team loses Moss there done. If you use this logic, signing Josh Freeman + Jimmy Clausen = Better than Drew Brees because most NFL QBs get hurt at some point too, right? That must also be why Jerry Rice's teams never did anything and he never had any other good WRs on the team with him. You may be right when you speculate on why Payton made this roster move. The signing obviously helps the backfield depth. I won't argue that. But I speculate that if you ask Payton or any other NFL head coach if they would rather have a RB corps of Thomas and Ivory vs Walter Payton (or Jackson, or Barry Sanders, etc) and an undrafted rookie (kind of like Ivory!) I'm betting Thomas isn't getting many nods. Time will tell and I hope I'm dead wrong. But if the team doesn't address the position with something better than a 5th round pick, I foresee relying on a DeShawn Wynn type signing again to fill out the roster and try to get important yards in a cold weather game next season. Sorry if that prospect does not excite me!
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446

03-09-2011, 10:37 AM	#6
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,153	This is one of the better discussions I've seen in a while. Solid points on all sides of this discussion.(That's one of the reasons I love this board)......we have discussions-not arguments! Great intelligent discussion gentlemen. I do feel the need to comment on the fact that the more you play the tougher you get.......if you can avoid injuries. This is just a personal opinion but I do believe that veteran rugby players(especially flankers) take the same beating every Saturday without pads. I don't mean to brag, that is not the point, but we condition ourselves to take the physical abuse. Anyone seen 300? It's not that barbaric but it's very similar in that the body conditions itself to heal stronger. Although even rugby players spend time on the sidelines wearing a cast and don't always use good judgment. (I actually cut a cast off with a hacksaw one time because my team didn't have enough players.) I feel there is a correlation between toughness and conditioning. I hope my rants about rugby doesn't get on anybody nerves. Who Dat!
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them