Saints reach 4 year deal(12 million) with Pierre Thomas

SAINT_MICHAEL · 03-04-2011, 06:35 PM

I appreciate the explanation.

Originally Posted by pherein

I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call,

I was hardly basing everything on this one stat. It was a reply to your comment about how artful PT is and his superior vision skills over Ivory. Since you brought up how much better PT is, I wanted to point out Ivory's YPC advantage. Simple as that. I even state I'm not sold on Ivory.

Originally Posted by pherein

Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didn’t improve that stat either.

Originally Posted by pherein

IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you.
Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that.
Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving.

These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can.

Originally Posted by pherein

The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either.
12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven.

True, the Saints spread the ball around on offense, but receivers are different than RBs. There are generally only one or two of them on the field at a time to hand the ball to versus 5 receiving options, so numbers alone explain why receiving stats are more "spread around" than rushing stats. I believe that if Payton had a bell-cow type back he would use that guy enough to get Jackson type yards which, in turn, would help the pass game. Instead he has to use a stable of backs because injury/performance has not enabled one guy to take the job by himself. I don’t believe that Payton wouldn't rather have a guy he can count on for 200-300 carries per season than have to sign guys off practice squads.

Originally Posted by pherein

Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board.

I said earlier in this thread that it's good to have him on the team. But it doesn't excite me because I think the RB position needs an upgrade and re-signing Thomas doesn't provide that. It can be hoped that he will play 12-16 games over the next 4 years and produce what he did in 2008-2009 (50 Rush YPG, 20 Rec YPG, 10 TDs). However coming off the year he did, it’s reasonable to wonder about his ability to produce for the next four years.

03-04-2011, 06:35 PM	#11
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	I appreciate the explanation. Originally Posted by pherein I think you're basing everything of a simple YPA for a single season, not a good judgement call, I was hardly basing everything on this one stat. It was a reply to your comment about how artful PT is and his superior vision skills over Ivory. Since you brought up how much better PT is, I wanted to point out Ivory's YPC advantage. Simple as that. I even state I'm not sold on Ivory. Originally Posted by pherein Thomas, Bush, and a lot of our other RB's played very little in 2010, so being 28th in rushing is understandable. Ivory running more than everyone didn’t improve that stat either. Originally Posted by pherein IF you look at the stats, it will explain things better for you. Jackson has always had almost 2x the Attempts at running that Thomas has. Thomas could easily clear 1200-1600 a season if he was given 324 Rush Attempts and 51 receiving attempts that Jackson is getting, all of the stats prove that. Instead Thomas has 147 Rush attempts and 39 receiving attempts at the most in a season, and his YPA rushing was 5.4, and YPA receiving was 7.7. In 2007-2008 Thomas had even less attempts and still did a 4.8 rushing and 9 receiving. These statements actually help make my point. Thomas (and the others) played very little in 2010 because of Injuries! Thomas has yet to play in all 16 games in an NFL season. True, Jackson has been hurt as well, but he has been hurt shouldering 2-2.5 times the number of carries PT has and still racks up 1,000 yard seasons. It's easy to say if PT had the carries he'd have the stats. Guess what, he doesn't. Part/most of that is because of our offensive game plan design. But you have to admit that part of it is because he can't take that pounding the way Jackson can. Originally Posted by pherein The problem with playing on the Saints is you have to be selfless. Colston will never get the numbers to put him in the HOF, because we play as a team and spread the ball around. Thomas, Ivory and Bush will never get their attempts either. 12 million for 4 years is a steal for an all around RB with PT's consistency and abilities. If we could get 4 RB's with the ability of PT for 48 million over 4 years, Id be in heaven. True, the Saints spread the ball around on offense, but receivers are different than RBs. There are generally only one or two of them on the field at a time to hand the ball to versus 5 receiving options, so numbers alone explain why receiving stats are more "spread around" than rushing stats. I believe that if Payton had a bell-cow type back he would use that guy enough to get Jackson type yards which, in turn, would help the pass game. Instead he has to use a stable of backs because injury/performance has not enabled one guy to take the job by himself. I don’t believe that Payton wouldn't rather have a guy he can count on for 200-300 carries per season than have to sign guys off practice squads. Originally Posted by pherein Really cant understand why you have a problem with it. Especially sense Payton is crazy happy about it, and Im sure he knows PT's abilities better than anyone on this board. I said earlier in this thread that it's good to have him on the team. But it doesn't excite me because I think the RB position needs an upgrade and re-signing Thomas doesn't provide that. It can be hoped that he will play 12-16 games over the next 4 years and produce what he did in 2008-2009 (50 Rush YPG, 20 Rec YPG, 10 TDs). However coming off the year he did, it’s reasonable to wonder about his ability to produce for the next four years.
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446