Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history....

Danno · 12-21-2003, 05:38 PM

Danno...that comment is completely ridiculous.

Deuce, running behind a lackluster o-line, was manhandled by a top 2 rushing defense. Taylor blasted apart a completely useless rush defense that my Grandma in her wheelchair could have got 100 yds on.

Compare apples to apples. I know everyone is upset right now but that is ridiculous.

Not completely...
My whole point was that this ENTIRE team is to blame, including the all-mighty Deuce McAllister.
He\'s been good for two years and most want to put him in Canton already. But when the Shiite hits the fan he\'s as much to blame as anyone else, and I\'m sure he\'d be the 1st to agree.
Would I trade him for anyone else? NO!
Does he shoulder the blame with everyone else?
YES!
You can\'t point to one or two players on this team for failure,
EVERYONE IS TO BLAME!

BillyC · 12-21-2003, 05:44 PM

Duece cost us this game as much or MORE than any ONE single player, IF you want to look at it like that. One of his fumbles the Jaguars scored 7-points off of and the next fumble killed a great drive we had going and changed the momentum.

I don\'t fault Duece for the loss though. But, LummOx, I must ask you where you were at when folks were saying the samething about Brooks? I see you are here defending Deuce when he did the samething?

[Edited on 21/12/2003 by BillyC]

blake6900 · 12-21-2003, 05:44 PM

Ok, let me think about it. Should I discuss Aaron Brooks with a known Brooks basher that has never said anything positive about the guy? NO!! --BillyC

Hmmm...that\'s the easy way out. I expected more from you. In the past, I have remarked on Brooks\' stats but I\'ve also said I would gladly give up stats for wins. I\'m not so sure Brooks would.

When he came out of Virginia, his mental aptitude was questioned and that resulted in him dropping down in the draft. The Saints, for whatever reasons, apparently saw that as a non-problem and so here they are...stuck with a QB who is only given two audibles because anything more would overwhelm him.

I\'ve also said there are few QBs in the league that can throw the long ball as well as AB. However that doesn\'t necessarily fit into a \"West Coast\" offensive scheme and that\'s what Hazlett and McCarthy said they wanted to run. So...it\'s all very simple. Is Brooks fitting into the offense the coaching staff originally wanted or has the scheme been changed to accomodate Brooks?

You know the answer to that and while I like a \"vertical game\" as much as the next guy, the Saints don\'t have the Rams\' personnel and I\'m not convinced AB would work in their offense anyway. If you believe he would, than you truly do believe Aaron Brooks is a top-notch quarterback. If you don\'t, than you simply think he\'s good enough...and that would be the main reason why you and me disagree because I don\'t.

So ask yourself the question: Do you think Aaron Brooks would be successful on a team with better personnel, for instance, the Rams or the Pats?

lumm0x · 12-21-2003, 05:50 PM

No, I didn\'t mean to defend that Deuce played well. Like the Delhomme-Brooks comparision, which as you may know I disagreed with and failed to participate in, was unfair. Taylor\'s day and Deuce\'s day are irrelevant to each other\'s performance today, in almost every sense.

Deuce played like crap and was as much to fault as anyone.

BillyC · 12-21-2003, 05:51 PM

blake6900 --

Show me 3 positive things you have ever said about Brooks and I\'ll beleive we can actually have an intelligent converstion about him? Otherwise, I\'ll have to believe that no matter what I say it will do no good.

You are entitled to your opinion blake, but we\'ll just have to disagree on Brooks. To be honest, no matter what you say, I won\'t change my mind and I\'m sure the reverse is true.

BillyC · 12-21-2003, 05:55 PM

No, I didn\'t mean to defend that Deuce played well. Like the Delhomme-Brooks comparision, which as you may know I disagreed with and failed to participate in, was unfair. Taylor\'s day and Deuce\'s day are irrelevant to each other\'s performance today, in almost every sense.

Deuce played like crap and was as much to fault as anyone.

OK LummOx, I\'m sure I read too much into what you posted. I think are one of the most fair members here, when it comes to telling the truth, which you just did in this post...

I\'ll read your post more clearly next time.

Saint2 · 12-21-2003, 06:59 PM

Out of the 19 points the Saints scored, how many were off of offensive drives? Answer 3
Take away the fluke play at the end of the game 10 points were off of interseptions by the defense that gave the offense good field position. So don\'t bash the defense.

If it hadn\'t been for special teams, The fluke play wouldn\'t have mattered. They would have lost by 4 pts instead of 1. Remember the blocked field goal? A heads up speacial teams play even got the ball in scoring range or they wouldn\'t have had that chance. So don\'t blame the speacial teams.

Now how does that potent offense look now? Boooooooooo!

saintz08 · 12-21-2003, 07:04 PM

Funny part is the failure of the Brookians to notice some simple points .

The Jags have the # 2 run defense and the # 9 pass defense . So simply Duece cannot be relyed upon to move the ball as effectively . The offensive attack has to be through the air , that means those high priced players , Brooks and Horn are going to have to step it up to get into the play offs .This offensive strategy is simply using the pass to open up the run .

This game along with other games has been a defeat as a direct result of any sense of urgency on the part of the offense in the first half .

With the high powered potential air attack of Brooks , Horn , Pathon ,Stallworth and Williams going against the 9th ranked Jags pass defense , this power offense only puts 7 points on the board .

Going into the tunnel at half time :

Brooks is hitting on 53% of his passes against the 9th ranked pass defense .

McCallister is accounting for 44 % of the total offense against the 2nd ranked run defense that was keying on him .

seraph33 · 12-21-2003, 07:12 PM

On a day where we had NO running game and Deuce fumbled the ball twice, Brooks had to put the offense on his shoulders and had a fantastic day even WITHOUT that last play. Totally laughable!!!!!!!!!

What about the like 12 or so games where Duece ran the ball for over 100 yards? Where was AB most of the time then? Granted he had his 2 great games this year (Houston and New York); however, he had just as many if not more bad ones. I will give AB this he has dramatically decreased the amount of bonehead throws this season. Still for the most part when we are getting production out of the running game, he can\'t keep our offense flowing.

BillyC · 12-21-2003, 07:22 PM

seraph33 -- How do you think Brooks is a PRO BOWL alternate this year?

33% of coaches, 33% of fans, and 33% of the media voted him in?

Other than the fumbling Brooks has had a Pro Bowl year.

12-21-2003, 05:38 PM	#31
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... Danno...that comment is completely ridiculous. Deuce, running behind a lackluster o-line, was manhandled by a top 2 rushing defense. Taylor blasted apart a completely useless rush defense that my Grandma in her wheelchair could have got 100 yds on. Compare apples to apples. I know everyone is upset right now but that is ridiculous. Not completely... My whole point was that this ENTIRE team is to blame, including the all-mighty Deuce McAllister. He\'s been good for two years and most want to put him in Canton already. But when the Shiite hits the fan he\'s as much to blame as anyone else, and I\'m sure he\'d be the 1st to agree. Would I trade him for anyone else? NO! Does he shoulder the blame with everyone else? YES! You can\'t point to one or two players on this team for failure, EVERYONE IS TO BLAME!

12-21-2003, 05:44 PM	#32
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... Duece cost us this game as much or MORE than any ONE single player, IF you want to look at it like that. One of his fumbles the Jaguars scored 7-points off of and the next fumble killed a great drive we had going and changed the momentum. I don\'t fault Duece for the loss though. But, LummOx, I must ask you where you were at when folks were saying the samething about Brooks? I see you are here defending Deuce when he did the samething? [Edited on 21/12/2003 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-21-2003, 05:44 PM	#33
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... Ok, let me think about it. Should I discuss Aaron Brooks with a known Brooks basher that has never said anything positive about the guy? NO!! --BillyC Hmmm...that\'s the easy way out. I expected more from you. In the past, I have remarked on Brooks\' stats but I\'ve also said I would gladly give up stats for wins. I\'m not so sure Brooks would. When he came out of Virginia, his mental aptitude was questioned and that resulted in him dropping down in the draft. The Saints, for whatever reasons, apparently saw that as a non-problem and so here they are...stuck with a QB who is only given two audibles because anything more would overwhelm him. I\'ve also said there are few QBs in the league that can throw the long ball as well as AB. However that doesn\'t necessarily fit into a \"West Coast\" offensive scheme and that\'s what Hazlett and McCarthy said they wanted to run. So...it\'s all very simple. Is Brooks fitting into the offense the coaching staff originally wanted or has the scheme been changed to accomodate Brooks? You know the answer to that and while I like a \"vertical game\" as much as the next guy, the Saints don\'t have the Rams\' personnel and I\'m not convinced AB would work in their offense anyway. If you believe he would, than you truly do believe Aaron Brooks is a top-notch quarterback. If you don\'t, than you simply think he\'s good enough...and that would be the main reason why you and me disagree because I don\'t. So ask yourself the question: Do you think Aaron Brooks would be successful on a team with better personnel, for instance, the Rams or the Pats?
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182

12-21-2003, 05:50 PM	#34
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... No, I didn\'t mean to defend that Deuce played well. Like the Delhomme-Brooks comparision, which as you may know I disagreed with and failed to participate in, was unfair. Taylor\'s day and Deuce\'s day are irrelevant to each other\'s performance today, in almost every sense. Deuce played like crap and was as much to fault as anyone.

12-21-2003, 05:51 PM	#35
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... blake6900 -- Show me 3 positive things you have ever said about Brooks and I\'ll beleive we can actually have an intelligent converstion about him? Otherwise, I\'ll have to believe that no matter what I say it will do no good. You are entitled to your opinion blake, but we\'ll just have to disagree on Brooks. To be honest, no matter what you say, I won\'t change my mind and I\'m sure the reverse is true.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

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12-21-2003, 05:55 PM	#36
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... No, I didn\'t mean to defend that Deuce played well. Like the Delhomme-Brooks comparision, which as you may know I disagreed with and failed to participate in, was unfair. Taylor\'s day and Deuce\'s day are irrelevant to each other\'s performance today, in almost every sense. Deuce played like crap and was as much to fault as anyone. OK LummOx, I\'m sure I read too much into what you posted. I think are one of the most fair members here, when it comes to telling the truth, which you just did in this post... I\'ll read your post more clearly next time.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-21-2003, 06:59 PM	#37
Saint2 Registered Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 44	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... Out of the 19 points the Saints scored, how many were off of offensive drives? Answer 3 Take away the fluke play at the end of the game 10 points were off of interseptions by the defense that gave the offense good field position. So don\'t bash the defense. If it hadn\'t been for special teams, The fluke play wouldn\'t have mattered. They would have lost by 4 pts instead of 1. Remember the blocked field goal? A heads up speacial teams play even got the ball in scoring range or they wouldn\'t have had that chance. So don\'t blame the speacial teams. Now how does that potent offense look now? Boooooooooo!
Saint2 Registered Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 44

12-21-2003, 07:04 PM	#38
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... Funny part is the failure of the Brookians to notice some simple points . The Jags have the # 2 run defense and the # 9 pass defense . So simply Duece cannot be relyed upon to move the ball as effectively . The offensive attack has to be through the air , that means those high priced players , Brooks and Horn are going to have to step it up to get into the play offs .This offensive strategy is simply using the pass to open up the run . This game along with other games has been a defeat as a direct result of any sense of urgency on the part of the offense in the first half . With the high powered potential air attack of Brooks , Horn , Pathon ,Stallworth and Williams going against the 9th ranked Jags pass defense , this power offense only puts 7 points on the board . Going into the tunnel at half time : Brooks is hitting on 53% of his passes against the 9th ranked pass defense . McCallister is accounting for 44 % of the total offense against the 2nd ranked run defense that was keying on him .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

12-21-2003, 07:12 PM	#39
seraph33 Registered Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 68	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... On a day where we had NO running game and Deuce fumbled the ball twice, Brooks had to put the offense on his shoulders and had a fantastic day even WITHOUT that last play. Totally laughable!!!!!!!!! What about the like 12 or so games where Duece ran the ball for over 100 yards? Where was AB most of the time then? Granted he had his 2 great games this year (Houston and New York); however, he had just as many if not more bad ones. I will give AB this he has dramatically decreased the amount of bonehead throws this season. Still for the most part when we are getting production out of the running game, he can\'t keep our offense flowing.

12-21-2003, 07:22 PM	#40
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Quite possibly the greatest play in Saints history.... seraph33 -- How do you think Brooks is a PRO BOWL alternate this year? 33% of coaches, 33% of fans, and 33% of the media voted him in? Other than the fumbling Brooks has had a Pro Bowl year.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842