Comparisons

FrenzyFan · 01-26-2004, 03:45 PM

I don\'t think there is ANY way to prove or provide evidence one way or another about Brooks ability to read defenses. I would think that we\'ve seen enough \"statistical spin\" in BOTH directions (for and against AB) that stats don\'t mean a thing.

I believe there is perception and opinions based off of perception.

Many times, I saw Brooks completely blind-sided (never even saw the hit coming) by a blitz that I (watching on a television and not with a 250 lbs defender white-knuckled at the line right in front of me) could see coming. Many other times, I saw blitzes and AB not going to his hot-route despite it being open - though there is no way to prove it, I believe he didn\'t know the blitz was coming. On other occasions I watched Brooks audible to a play that went straight to the strength of the defense\'s play-call. I am certainly no pro QB, but I could see that much.

Those are my perceptions and it leads me to the opinion that he could be a LOT better at reading defenses.

As an aside, I don\'t think anyone had said they doubted AB studied on the sidelines merely that they had never seen it and were curious if anyone else had. I for one am glad that someone has seen this. I will be looking for it this year at the games.

WhoDat · 01-26-2004, 09:27 PM

Do those 2 things not take intelligence? To me, not thowing int\'s and completing a high percentage of passes are the 2-most important things that show intelligence of a QB. What say the Brooks\' bashers?

I used that exact argument last year BC, saying that TDs and Yards aren\'t as good indicators of performance as things that measure efficiency, like Comp %, Efficiency Rating, Yards/Attempt, etc.

You argued tooth and nail. Glad to see that you are seeing things the right way finally.

I do note that it took a year of improvement specifically in those areas from Brooks to get you there, but... Next year you\'ll tell us that nothing hurts a team more than turnovers! LMAO. Just kidding BC, I have to josh you about this b/c you and Saintfan argued so hard against the exact stand that you\'re taking now.

biloxi-indian · 01-26-2004, 09:32 PM

Billy C,

<Do those 2 things not take intelligence? To me, not thowing int\'s and completing a high percentage of passes are the 2-most important things that show intelligence of a QB. What say the Brooks\' bashers?>

Those two take more than intelligence. Add LUCK, OPPOSING DEFENSIVE SCHEME, SKILL, and GOOD RECEIVERS (as well as a few more I am sure). However, the true measurement is WINS/LOSSES. In this category, AB has a LONG way too go! IMHO.

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again and expecting a different outcome!

biloxi-indian · 01-26-2004, 09:36 PM

The question remains. Why doesn\'t Bouman get a chance? This is not saying AB is a DOG, but like most HUMANS he has his faults. Fumbles is but one...LEADERSHIP is yet another that I fail to see.

I watched with amazement that Horn hugged AB to settle their differences. This does not provide EVIDENCE, as some desire, of LEADERSHIP.

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again and expecting a different outcome!

codename47 · 01-26-2004, 09:46 PM

Can someone provide me with some evidence that Brooks can\'t read defenses? Not opinions, but real evidence.

Here\'s my evidence that Brooks CAN read defenses.

1. Threw only 8-interceptions all year against NFL defenses. It wasn\'t pee-wee or college defenses, it was NFL defenses.

2. Completed 60% of his passes against NFL defenses.

Do those 2 things not take intelligence? To me, not thowing int\'s and completing a high percentage of passes are the 2-most important things that show intelligence of a QB. What say the Brooks\' bashers?

Got a couple of questions:
what about play calling?
what about the WR\'s ability to get open?

On the other board I used to frequent, it was the same song: everything that is perceived as good, Brooks did all by himself. Everything that was bad, it was everything/everybody else around him.

McCarthy constantly puts 2 TE formations not because he\'s dumb, but because he knows his QB holds on to the ball too long, and needs time to look around.
And the receivers are usually fairly open; that is because McCarthy calls good pass plays and the receivers run fairly good routes.

..but don\'t take my word for it.. if you have tape, look at the pass plays and you\'d see that rarely Brooks throws into tight coverage.

And I have to add, I don\'t want to diminish anything and everything that Brooks does. The man does have physical talent, and many a times his physical talent has bailed him out of dire situations. Is he \"brilliant\"? Well, that\'s not for me to decide. Is he a good QB? I think he lacks QB skills but his physical skills make up for a lot.

WhoDat · 01-26-2004, 09:51 PM

Hey 08, where\'s that quote from the scout that said he lacked intelligence and might be a good receiver? I love that one. LMAO!

saintz08 · 01-27-2004, 12:07 AM

Got a better one WhoDat .

Can someone provide me with some evidence that Brooks can\'t read defenses? Not opinions, but real evidence.

Billy I would certainly hope this helps .

The following is a write up from the Cleveland Browns game in 2002 . The following are the comments made from , not a critic or a commentator , but simply the truest form of a test , an opposing defender .

I hope you will certainly note the words - He proved it today .

\"We showed some coverages and then changed them,\" Browns free safety Earl Little said. \"Personally, I didn\'t think he could read (defenses) that well. I think that screwed him up a little bit. That\'s what gave them a problem.\"

\"What I was seeing was a guy that didn\'t know if we were blitzing, didn\'t know if we were in a zone or a straight man-to-man,\" Little said. \"Personally, with or without him (Deuce), we didn\'t think he could read coverages that well, and he proved it today.\"

BillyC · 01-27-2004, 08:52 AM

codename47--
McCarthy constantly puts 2 TE formations not because he\'s dumb, but because he knows his QB holds on to the ball too long, and needs time to look around.
And the receivers are usually fairly open; that is because McCarthy calls good pass plays and the receivers run fairly good routes.

..but don\'t take my word for it.. if you have tape, look at the pass plays and you\'d see that rarely Brooks throws into tight coverage.

That\'s interesting codename47, but all you are doing is guessing at all of this. Hey we all do it, but I asked for REAL evidence and you provided NONE.

I could say McCarthy uses 2-tightend sets to help the offensive line out and you couldn\'t prove me wrong.

Point is we can all speculate whether or not Brooks is intelligent enough to play QB, but he puts up the STATS and POINTS on offense to get us to the playoffs and if not for some weak areas on the team we would be fine.

You know Pro-Bowl QB\'s are not selected according to how good their team plays. They are selected according to their individual play. Maybe we as Saints fan should judge Brooks like that, because he can\'t be responsible for the offense, defense, and special teams. As a matter of fact, Aaron Brooks can only be responsible for Aaron Brooks.

Now all the Brooks critics can say is:

1. Has no leadership.
2. Fumbles too much.

They say # 1 because they know it can\'t be disproven.

They say number 2, because they don\'t want to talk about how effective Brooks is at finding the open receivers and the great numbers he has put up the last couple of years.

[Edited on 27/1/2004 by BillyC]

[Edited on 27/1/2004 by BillyC]

BrooksMustGo · 01-27-2004, 09:02 AM

Now all the Brooks critics can say is:

1. Has no leadership.
2. Fumbles too much.

Don\'t forget, we\'re also saying
3. He still can\'t throw a touch pass.
4. He still can\'t read a defense.
5. He blames anyone else for his mistakes.
6. He smiles about getting beat/throwing picks
7. He backs out of his protection, won\'t step up and deliver the ball.
8. He\'s lackadasical in his approach to the game.
9. He lacks football smarts.
10. He\'s a \"me-first\" type player. \"Leon Brooks\"

BillyC · 01-27-2004, 09:11 AM

Don\'t forget, we\'re also saying
3. He still can\'t throw a touch pass.
4. He still can\'t read a defense.
5. He blames anyone else for his mistakes.
6. He smiles about getting beat/throwing picks
7. He backs out of his protection, won\'t step up and deliver the ball.
8. He\'s lackadasical in his approach to the game.
9. He lacks football smarts.
10. He\'s a \"me-first\" type player. \"Leon Brooks\"

3. I see him throw touch passes that are consistently dropped by our great receivers. Ask Joe Horn about that!!
4. Then how does he throw for all those yards, TD\'s and he hardly throws any inteceptions. Please answer this question BMG and don\'t avoid it??
5. Who has he blamed?
6. Are you saying he enjoys losing? He only threw 8 picks.
7. He does do that.
8. That\'s your opinion, but he get\'s the job done never-the-less.
9. What are football smarts?
10. Got facts?

[Edited on 27/1/2004 by BillyC]

01-26-2004, 03:45 PM	#31
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Comparisons I don\'t think there is ANY way to prove or provide evidence one way or another about Brooks ability to read defenses. I would think that we\'ve seen enough \"statistical spin\" in BOTH directions (for and against AB) that stats don\'t mean a thing. I believe there is perception and opinions based off of perception. Many times, I saw Brooks completely blind-sided (never even saw the hit coming) by a blitz that I (watching on a television and not with a 250 lbs defender white-knuckled at the line right in front of me) could see coming. Many other times, I saw blitzes and AB not going to his hot-route despite it being open - though there is no way to prove it, I believe he didn\'t know the blitz was coming. On other occasions I watched Brooks audible to a play that went straight to the strength of the defense\'s play-call. I am certainly no pro QB, but I could see that much. Those are my perceptions and it leads me to the opinion that he could be a LOT better at reading defenses. As an aside, I don\'t think anyone had said they doubted AB studied on the sidelines merely that they had never seen it and were curious if anyone else had. I for one am glad that someone has seen this. I will be looking for it this year at the games.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

01-26-2004, 09:27 PM	#32
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Comparisons Do those 2 things not take intelligence? To me, not thowing int\'s and completing a high percentage of passes are the 2-most important things that show intelligence of a QB. What say the Brooks\' bashers? I used that exact argument last year BC, saying that TDs and Yards aren\'t as good indicators of performance as things that measure efficiency, like Comp %, Efficiency Rating, Yards/Attempt, etc. You argued tooth and nail. Glad to see that you are seeing things the right way finally. I do note that it took a year of improvement specifically in those areas from Brooks to get you there, but... Next year you\'ll tell us that nothing hurts a team more than turnovers! LMAO. Just kidding BC, I have to josh you about this b/c you and Saintfan argued so hard against the exact stand that you\'re taking now.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

01-26-2004, 09:32 PM	#33
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Comparisons Billy C, <Do those 2 things not take intelligence? To me, not thowing int\'s and completing a high percentage of passes are the 2-most important things that show intelligence of a QB. What say the Brooks\' bashers?> Those two take more than intelligence. Add LUCK, OPPOSING DEFENSIVE SCHEME, SKILL, and GOOD RECEIVERS (as well as a few more I am sure). However, the true measurement is WINS/LOSSES. In this category, AB has a LONG way too go! IMHO. Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again and expecting a different outcome!

01-26-2004, 09:36 PM	#34
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Comparisons The question remains. Why doesn\'t Bouman get a chance? This is not saying AB is a DOG, but like most HUMANS he has his faults. Fumbles is but one...LEADERSHIP is yet another that I fail to see. I watched with amazement that Horn hugged AB to settle their differences. This does not provide EVIDENCE, as some desire, of LEADERSHIP. Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again and expecting a different outcome!

01-26-2004, 09:46 PM	#35
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25	Comparisons Can someone provide me with some evidence that Brooks can\'t read defenses? Not opinions, but real evidence. Here\'s my evidence that Brooks CAN read defenses. 1. Threw only 8-interceptions all year against NFL defenses. It wasn\'t pee-wee or college defenses, it was NFL defenses. 2. Completed 60% of his passes against NFL defenses. Do those 2 things not take intelligence? To me, not thowing int\'s and completing a high percentage of passes are the 2-most important things that show intelligence of a QB. What say the Brooks\' bashers? Got a couple of questions: what about play calling? what about the WR\'s ability to get open? On the other board I used to frequent, it was the same song: everything that is perceived as good, Brooks did all by himself. Everything that was bad, it was everything/everybody else around him. McCarthy constantly puts 2 TE formations not because he\'s dumb, but because he knows his QB holds on to the ball too long, and needs time to look around. And the receivers are usually fairly open; that is because McCarthy calls good pass plays and the receivers run fairly good routes. ..but don\'t take my word for it.. if you have tape, look at the pass plays and you\'d see that rarely Brooks throws into tight coverage. And I have to add, I don\'t want to diminish anything and everything that Brooks does. The man does have physical talent, and many a times his physical talent has bailed him out of dire situations. Is he \"brilliant\"? Well, that\'s not for me to decide. Is he a good QB? I think he lacks QB skills but his physical skills make up for a lot.
codename47 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 25

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01-26-2004, 09:51 PM	#36
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Comparisons Hey 08, where\'s that quote from the scout that said he lacked intelligence and might be a good receiver? I love that one. LMAO!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

01-27-2004, 12:07 AM	#37
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Comparisons Got a better one WhoDat . Can someone provide me with some evidence that Brooks can\'t read defenses? Not opinions, but real evidence. Billy I would certainly hope this helps . The following is a write up from the Cleveland Browns game in 2002 . The following are the comments made from , not a critic or a commentator , but simply the truest form of a test , an opposing defender . I hope you will certainly note the words - He proved it today . \"We showed some coverages and then changed them,\" Browns free safety Earl Little said. \"Personally, I didn\'t think he could read (defenses) that well. I think that screwed him up a little bit. That\'s what gave them a problem.\" \"What I was seeing was a guy that didn\'t know if we were blitzing, didn\'t know if we were in a zone or a straight man-to-man,\" Little said. \"Personally, with or without him (Deuce), we didn\'t think he could read coverages that well, and he proved it today.\"
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

01-27-2004, 08:52 AM	#38
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Comparisons codename47-- McCarthy constantly puts 2 TE formations not because he\'s dumb, but because he knows his QB holds on to the ball too long, and needs time to look around. And the receivers are usually fairly open; that is because McCarthy calls good pass plays and the receivers run fairly good routes. ..but don\'t take my word for it.. if you have tape, look at the pass plays and you\'d see that rarely Brooks throws into tight coverage. That\'s interesting codename47, but all you are doing is guessing at all of this. Hey we all do it, but I asked for REAL evidence and you provided NONE. I could say McCarthy uses 2-tightend sets to help the offensive line out and you couldn\'t prove me wrong. Point is we can all speculate whether or not Brooks is intelligent enough to play QB, but he puts up the STATS and POINTS on offense to get us to the playoffs and if not for some weak areas on the team we would be fine. You know Pro-Bowl QB\'s are not selected according to how good their team plays. They are selected according to their individual play. Maybe we as Saints fan should judge Brooks like that, because he can\'t be responsible for the offense, defense, and special teams. As a matter of fact, Aaron Brooks can only be responsible for Aaron Brooks. Now all the Brooks critics can say is: 1. Has no leadership. 2. Fumbles too much. They say # 1 because they know it can\'t be disproven. They say number 2, because they don\'t want to talk about how effective Brooks is at finding the open receivers and the great numbers he has put up the last couple of years. [Edited on 27/1/2004 by BillyC] [Edited on 27/1/2004 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

01-27-2004, 09:02 AM	#39
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Comparisons Now all the Brooks critics can say is: 1. Has no leadership. 2. Fumbles too much. Don\'t forget, we\'re also saying 3. He still can\'t throw a touch pass. 4. He still can\'t read a defense. 5. He blames anyone else for his mistakes. 6. He smiles about getting beat/throwing picks 7. He backs out of his protection, won\'t step up and deliver the ball. 8. He\'s lackadasical in his approach to the game. 9. He lacks football smarts. 10. He\'s a \"me-first\" type player. \"Leon Brooks\"

01-27-2004, 09:11 AM	#40
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Comparisons Don\'t forget, we\'re also saying 3. He still can\'t throw a touch pass. 4. He still can\'t read a defense. 5. He blames anyone else for his mistakes. 6. He smiles about getting beat/throwing picks 7. He backs out of his protection, won\'t step up and deliver the ball. 8. He\'s lackadasical in his approach to the game. 9. He lacks football smarts. 10. He\'s a \"me-first\" type player. \"Leon Brooks\" 3. I see him throw touch passes that are consistently dropped by our great receivers. Ask Joe Horn about that!! 4. Then how does he throw for all those yards, TD\'s and he hardly throws any inteceptions. Please answer this question BMG and don\'t avoid it?? 5. Who has he blamed? 6. Are you saying he enjoys losing? He only threw 8 picks. 7. He does do that. 8. That\'s your opinion, but he get\'s the job done never-the-less. 9. What are football smarts? 10. Got facts? [Edited on 27/1/2004 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842