Brees being sacked more this year than any other a Saint

saintfan · 10-13-2011, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

de la puenta is our backup that is grading out very poorly. that doesnt mean that the line as a whole is doing poorly. linemen get graded individually but they are actually one unit that is playing well together minus the pressures being given up around the edge and from DLP

its not a simple job to protect a QB in the NFL. why do you think the guys that do it well get paid so much? if the defenders are only getting to drew twice a game when they are playing 70+ snaps every game then who do you think is doing a better job...

lets say they dont get to drew 68 snaps but they sack him 2 snaps....68>2...looks like our line is winning that battle

pass blocking is one of the hardest jobs in professional sports...but you know why these arguments dont hold water for you? cuz you dont understand what happens during the course of a play.

can i ask you a serious question? have you played football at any level?

First: Grading out? By whom? You? Can I see his report card as written by you? Grading out...

Second, anybody who knows even the least bit will tell you that Drew makes that line appear to be a hell of a lot better than it might appear if, say, Jay Cutler were the guy throwing the passes. But that's your problem, has always been your problem. You can't see...refuse to see...anything beyond what you want to see. You're a 'stats' guy, but you don't know when to throw them out the window in favor of what you see with your own two eyes.

We all know pass blocking is hard. Once again, we don't need you to educate us. Can I ask YOU a question? At what level did you stop playing football and start "grading" out NFL centers? How much do you make for your 'grading' work? Um...yeah...

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

First: Grading out? By whom? You? Can I see his report card as written by you? Grading out...

Second, anybody who knows even the least bit will tell you that Drew makes that line appear to be a hell of a lot better than it might appear if, say, Jay Cutler were the guy throwing the passes. But that's your problem, has always been your problem. You can't see...refuse to see...anything beyond what you want to see. You're a 'stats' guy, but you don't know when to throw them out the window in favor of what you see with your own two eyes.

We all know pass blocking is hard. Once again, we don't need you to educate us. Can I ask YOU a question? At what level did you stop playing football and start "grading" out NFL centers? How much do you make for your 'grading' work? Um...yeah...

pff.com rates players every game. thats what i was basing my info on.

of course drew is better than jay cutler but their line is abismal

you say drew makes our line look better...true sometimes. maybe our line makes drew look better too? lol then you say no thats not true and we go back and forth arguing about something that cant be proven.

you know why i use stats? because i can see the stats...then i can show other ppl stats. and it can help me prove a point which is usually based on a conclusion ive drawn by WATCHING the games.

the difference is that you guys have conclusions that you draw up form watching the games but you dont have anything to back it up...at least i have stats

saintfan · 10-13-2011, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

pff.com rates players every game. thats what i was basing my info on.

of course drew is better than jay cutler but their line is abismal

you say drew makes our line look better...true sometimes. maybe our line makes drew look better too? lol then you say no thats not true and we go back and forth arguing about something that cant be proven.

you know why i use stats? because i can see the stats...then i can show other ppl stats. and it can help me prove a point which is usually based on a conclusion ive drawn by WATCHING the games.

the difference is that you guys have conclusions that you draw up form watching the games but you dont have anything to back it up...at least i have stats

And even when your all mighty numbers show us at the 14th best run team in the league you insist our line is a solid run-blocking unit. Uh, riiiiight...

Even when the first stat you point to is YPC, and even after several people explain to you how that don't mean jack. Uh, riiiiight...

you say drew makes our line look better...true sometimes

No sir. True all the time.

maybe our line makes drew look better too?

Maybe the line makes Drew look better? Seriously? Okay...grab your stats and make that point. This I have GOT to hear...

you know why i use stats?

Yes. It is because you aren't enlightened enough to understand when they are valuable and when they aren't telling you the whole story. Lots of people fall into that trap.

the difference is that you guys have conclusions that you draw up form watching the games

Wow. Why yes we DO watch the games. You should try it. Get your head out of the stats sheet and pay attention.

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

And even when your all mighty numbers show us at the 14th best run team in the league you insist our line is a solid run-blocking unit. Uh, riiiiight...

Even when the first stat you point to is YPC, and even after several people explain to you how that don't mean jack. Uh, riiiiight...

No sir. True all the time.

Maybe the line makes Drew look better? Seriously? Okay...grab your stats and make that point. This I have GOT to hear...

Yes. It is because you aren't enlightened enough to understand when they are valuable and when they aren't telling you the whole story. Lots of people fall into that trap.

Wow. Why yes we DO watch the games. You should try it. Get your head out of the stats sheet and pay attention.

please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better

thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats

strato · 10-13-2011, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better

thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats

No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship?

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by strato

No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship?

i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

strato · 10-13-2011, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

Well congrats on that...now with all that knowledge you should know how many times Drew has to avoid the rush because of pressure...if you are really watching..and that we have trouble picking up short yardage..

Now i know we are great in the screen game with our O-Lineman in space..but at protecting Drew a lot has to do with him stepping up and feeling the pressure...that my friend is obvious..just be glad we don't have a statue for a QB or it would be a lot worse..

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

you cant prove either one with or without stats

But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

CantonLegend · 10-13-2011, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

FinSaint · 10-13-2011, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons.

Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved.

What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.

10-13-2011, 02:54 PM	#1
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by CantonLegend de la puenta is our backup that is grading out very poorly. that doesnt mean that the line as a whole is doing poorly. linemen get graded individually but they are actually one unit that is playing well together minus the pressures being given up around the edge and from DLP its not a simple job to protect a QB in the NFL. why do you think the guys that do it well get paid so much? if the defenders are only getting to drew twice a game when they are playing 70+ snaps every game then who do you think is doing a better job... lets say they dont get to drew 68 snaps but they sack him 2 snaps....68>2...looks like our line is winning that battle pass blocking is one of the hardest jobs in professional sports...but you know why these arguments dont hold water for you? cuz you dont understand what happens during the course of a play. can i ask you a serious question? have you played football at any level? First: Grading out? By whom? You? Can I see his report card as written by you? Grading out... Second, anybody who knows even the least bit will tell you that Drew makes that line appear to be a hell of a lot better than it might appear if, say, Jay Cutler were the guy throwing the passes. But that's your problem, has always been your problem. You can't see...refuse to see...anything beyond what you want to see. You're a 'stats' guy, but you don't know when to throw them out the window in favor of what you see with your own two eyes. We all know pass blocking is hard. Once again, we don't need you to educate us. Can I ask YOU a question? At what level did you stop playing football and start "grading" out NFL centers? How much do you make for your 'grading' work? Um...yeah... strato likes this.
	C'mon Man... Last edited by saintfan; 10-13-2011 at 02:59 PM..

10-13-2011, 03:19 PM	#2
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by saintfan First: Grading out? By whom? You? Can I see his report card as written by you? Grading out... Second, anybody who knows even the least bit will tell you that Drew makes that line appear to be a hell of a lot better than it might appear if, say, Jay Cutler were the guy throwing the passes. But that's your problem, has always been your problem. You can't see...refuse to see...anything beyond what you want to see. You're a 'stats' guy, but you don't know when to throw them out the window in favor of what you see with your own two eyes. We all know pass blocking is hard. Once again, we don't need you to educate us. Can I ask YOU a question? At what level did you stop playing football and start "grading" out NFL centers? How much do you make for your 'grading' work? Um...yeah... pff.com rates players every game. thats what i was basing my info on. of course drew is better than jay cutler but their line is abismal you say drew makes our line look better...true sometimes. maybe our line makes drew look better too? lol then you say no thats not true and we go back and forth arguing about something that cant be proven. you know why i use stats? because i can see the stats...then i can show other ppl stats. and it can help me prove a point which is usually based on a conclusion ive drawn by WATCHING the games. the difference is that you guys have conclusions that you draw up form watching the games but you dont have anything to back it up...at least i have stats
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

10-13-2011, 03:29 PM	#3
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by CantonLegend pff.com rates players every game. thats what i was basing my info on. of course drew is better than jay cutler but their line is abismal you say drew makes our line look better...true sometimes. maybe our line makes drew look better too? lol then you say no thats not true and we go back and forth arguing about something that cant be proven. you know why i use stats? because i can see the stats...then i can show other ppl stats. and it can help me prove a point which is usually based on a conclusion ive drawn by WATCHING the games. the difference is that you guys have conclusions that you draw up form watching the games but you dont have anything to back it up...at least i have stats And even when your all mighty numbers show us at the 14th best run team in the league you insist our line is a solid run-blocking unit. Uh, riiiiight... Even when the first stat you point to is YPC, and even after several people explain to you how that don't mean jack. Uh, riiiiight... you say drew makes our line look better...true sometimes No sir. True all the time. maybe our line makes drew look better too? Maybe the line makes Drew look better? Seriously? Okay...grab your stats and make that point. This I have GOT to hear... you know why i use stats? Yes. It is because you aren't enlightened enough to understand when they are valuable and when they aren't telling you the whole story. Lots of people fall into that trap. the difference is that you guys have conclusions that you draw up form watching the games Wow. Why yes we DO watch the games. You should try it. Get your head out of the stats sheet and pay attention.
	C'mon Man...

10-13-2011, 03:44 PM	#4
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by saintfan And even when your all mighty numbers show us at the 14th best run team in the league you insist our line is a solid run-blocking unit. Uh, riiiiight... Even when the first stat you point to is YPC, and even after several people explain to you how that don't mean jack. Uh, riiiiight... No sir. True all the time. Maybe the line makes Drew look better? Seriously? Okay...grab your stats and make that point. This I have GOT to hear... Yes. It is because you aren't enlightened enough to understand when they are valuable and when they aren't telling you the whole story. Lots of people fall into that trap. Wow. Why yes we DO watch the games. You should try it. Get your head out of the stats sheet and pay attention. please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats

10-13-2011, 03:51 PM	#5
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Originally Posted by CantonLegend please prove that drew makes our line look better but our line doesnt make drew look better thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you cant prove either one with or without stats No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship?

10-13-2011, 04:06 PM	#6
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by strato No stat needed for that.. just watch the game..it is known throughout with all saints fans..by the way you mention coaching..what do you coach?..are you a head coach..assistant ?..has your team ever competed for a championship? i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02

10-13-2011, 04:14 PM	#7
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Originally Posted by CantonLegend i coach offensive and defensive lines and im the assistant head coach for a small high school near akron. since ive been here weve won our league every year except 2. we made the playoffs every year and won a state championship in 02 Well congrats on that...now with all that knowledge you should know how many times Drew has to avoid the rush because of pressure...if you are really watching..and that we have trouble picking up short yardage.. Now i know we are great in the screen game with our O-Lineman in space..but at protecting Drew a lot has to do with him stepping up and feeling the pressure...that my friend is obvious..just be glad we don't have a statue for a QB or it would be a lot worse..

10-13-2011, 03:52 PM	#8
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Originally Posted by CantonLegend you cant prove either one with or without stats But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either?

10-13-2011, 03:58 PM	#9
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Originally Posted by FinSaint But doesn't that mean that you can't disprove them either? of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on

10-13-2011, 04:08 PM	#10
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Originally Posted by CantonLegend of course...that was my point. i can use stats to show something but i wouldnt say our line makes drew look better because it cant be proven. its just a blanket opinion to try and explain whats going on without actually explaining whats going on I agree. Without statistical evidence we would have to base our opinion on the objective observation of the event(s) coupled with the information we have at our disposal, which could entail, for example, pre season games with Daniel as the QB - although those would hardly be comparable for various reasons. Another way would be to come up with a dedicated data/stat collecting method that would be applicable to test this particular hypothesis, but that would be beyond difficult as we wouldn't have any control over the different variables involved. What my point comes back to is that since we can't prove or disprove this particular point by data/stats - we are forced to rely on our observations, and in that case I would have to agree that it is far more likely that Brees is making the O-line look better than vice versa.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

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