NFLPA: League must release Saints information

saintfan · 03-30-2012, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

Fox8 just said that Payton, Vitt, Loomis, and the Saints organization are all appealing their seperate penalties

It won't do them any good, but they SHOULD appeal on principle alone. This is still America last time I checked.

SloMotion · 03-30-2012, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by SaintPauly

I love how all the fans of the other teams are saying Goodell doesnt have to show Smith, or anyone else ANYTHING. By that logic, "God"ell, can make up anything he wants and declare it the truth, without any type of retribution. If its all in there, then i want to see it. As a Saints fan, i can handle it good or bad. Why is the rest of the NFL nervous?

Yep, I don't understand the level of animosity either, other then much of it being fueled by the media and people always like to kick you when you're down. If Goodell can arbitrarily punish the Saints without showing his cards, he can do it to the rest of the league as well.

LivnaLieTimay · 03-30-2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by lynwood

Be careful what you wish for. Might not want some info to be released.

I can't think of any scenario where releasing all the information could make the situation any worse. Worst case scenario; there's hard facts that convince the Player's Union that all that was reported is true, and the media has a day of "no surprise" articles. Whatever; everyone already thinks we're guilty, at least we know the truth and move on.

However; if all they have is one disgruntled ex-Saint throwing around words like "cart off" and "knockout" and saying he heard Vilma one time in the locker room put a bounty on Favre for $10,000, then I think we come out looking a little better. Unless there's video, audio, or emails using phrases like "knockout" or "cart off" I think the Player's Union has a good case to attack Goodell's credibility. It's very hard to suspend or fine players based on what one person said to the commissioner. I also think that the NFL has played their best cards and the rest of their "proof" is all one person's account of everything that happened.

saintsfan1976 · 03-30-2012, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

Fox8 just said that Payton, Vitt, Loomis, and the Saints organization are all appealing their seperate penalties

And they should appeal. As should the players. Show me the ledger, show me the audio, video of a deal going down. Isn't that what our justice system requires to arrest, convict and sentence?

Present ALL of the evidence.

blackangold · 03-30-2012, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

And they should appeal. As should the players. Show me the ledger, show me the audio, video of a deal going down. Isn't that what our justice system requires to arrest, convict and sentence?

Present ALL of the evidence.

Justice system yes, however there are no criminal charges involved and in civil lawsuits only a preponderance of evidence is needed to 'convict' or issue guilt upon a party.

Also worth noting this is not a court case of any kind. Goodell has all the power and even appeals will go to him. Doesn't sound fair because it isn't.

saintsfan1976 · 03-30-2012, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Justice system yes, however there are no criminal charges involved and in civil lawsuits only a preponderance of evidence is needed to 'convict' or issue guilt upon a party.

Also worth noting this is not a court case of any kind. Goodell has all the power and even appeals will go to him. Doesn't sound fair because it isn't.

Yeah, I know. I meant it more as a reflection of what "should" happen.

UK_WhoDat · 03-31-2012, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by lynwood

Be careful what you wish for. Might not want some info to be released.

Oh no!

Bad words and punishments have been dished out. So really it cannot get worse. Spill the beans, all of it. And the we can we can understand the mess and wipe it up if we wish.

Transparency

saintfan · 03-31-2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Justice system yes, however there are no criminal charges involved and in civil lawsuits only a preponderance of evidence is needed to 'convict' or issue guilt upon a party.

Also worth noting this is not a court case of any kind. Goodell has all the power and even appeals will go to him. Doesn't sound fair because it isn't.

All very true, but if I'm anyone being associated with all this, and what the NFL is stating isn't accurate - isn't provable - whether they punish me or not - I want that known. I want it known that they have no real evidence...just because...

AlaskaSaints · 03-31-2012, 04:51 PM

'Timay - Please report to the "Defend Your Handle" thread on the Welcome Wagon!

Alaska

03-30-2012, 04:05 PM	#11
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| Fox8 just said that Payton, Vitt, Loomis, and the Saints organization are all appealing their seperate penalties It won't do them any good, but they SHOULD appeal on principle alone. This is still America last time I checked.

03-30-2012, 04:17 PM	#12
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Originally Posted by SaintPauly I love how all the fans of the other teams are saying Goodell doesnt have to show Smith, or anyone else ANYTHING. By that logic, "God"ell, can make up anything he wants and declare it the truth, without any type of retribution. If its all in there, then i want to see it. As a Saints fan, i can handle it good or bad. Why is the rest of the NFL nervous? Yep, I don't understand the level of animosity either, other then much of it being fueled by the media and people always like to kick you when you're down. If Goodell can arbitrarily punish the Saints without showing his cards, he can do it to the rest of the league as well. iceshack149 and AsylumGuido like this.

03-30-2012, 04:43 PM	#13
LivnaLieTimay 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York Posts: 1,498	Originally Posted by lynwood Be careful what you wish for. Might not want some info to be released. I can't think of any scenario where releasing all the information could make the situation any worse. Worst case scenario; there's hard facts that convince the Player's Union that all that was reported is true, and the media has a day of "no surprise" articles. Whatever; everyone already thinks we're guilty, at least we know the truth and move on. However; if all they have is one disgruntled ex-Saint throwing around words like "cart off" and "knockout" and saying he heard Vilma one time in the locker room put a bounty on Favre for $10,000, then I think we come out looking a little better. Unless there's video, audio, or emails using phrases like "knockout" or "cart off" I think the Player's Union has a good case to attack Goodell's credibility. It's very hard to suspend or fine players based on what one person said to the commissioner. I also think that the NFL has played their best cards and the rest of their "proof" is all one person's account of everything that happened. saintfan likes this.

03-30-2012, 04:55 PM	#14
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| Fox8 just said that Payton, Vitt, Loomis, and the Saints organization are all appealing their seperate penalties And they should appeal. As should the players. Show me the ledger, show me the audio, video of a deal going down. Isn't that what our justice system requires to arrest, convict and sentence? Present ALL of the evidence.

03-30-2012, 05:12 PM	#15
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 And they should appeal. As should the players. Show me the ledger, show me the audio, video of a deal going down. Isn't that what our justice system requires to arrest, convict and sentence? Present ALL of the evidence. Justice system yes, however there are no criminal charges involved and in civil lawsuits only a preponderance of evidence is needed to 'convict' or issue guilt upon a party. Also worth noting this is not a court case of any kind. Goodell has all the power and even appeals will go to him. Doesn't sound fair because it isn't.

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03-30-2012, 05:30 PM	#16
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by blackangold Justice system yes, however there are no criminal charges involved and in civil lawsuits only a preponderance of evidence is needed to 'convict' or issue guilt upon a party. Also worth noting this is not a court case of any kind. Goodell has all the power and even appeals will go to him. Doesn't sound fair because it isn't. Yeah, I know. I meant it more as a reflection of what "should" happen.

03-31-2012, 06:10 AM	#17
UK_WhoDat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wherever I lay my hat Posts: 3,865	Originally Posted by lynwood Be careful what you wish for. Might not want some info to be released. Oh no! Bad words and punishments have been dished out. So really it cannot get worse. Spill the beans, all of it. And the we can we can understand the mess and wipe it up if we wish. Transparency saintfan likes this.

03-31-2012, 01:51 PM	#18
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by blackangold Justice system yes, however there are no criminal charges involved and in civil lawsuits only a preponderance of evidence is needed to 'convict' or issue guilt upon a party. Also worth noting this is not a court case of any kind. Goodell has all the power and even appeals will go to him. Doesn't sound fair because it isn't. All very true, but if I'm anyone being associated with all this, and what the NFL is stating isn't accurate - isn't provable - whether they punish me or not - I want that known. I want it known that they have no real evidence...just because...

03-31-2012, 04:51 PM	#19
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	'Timay - Please report to the "Defend Your Handle" thread on the Welcome Wagon! Alaska SloMotion likes this.

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