How you feel is 100% NOT relevant. Conspiracy? It depends on how you define it, but there are links on NFL.COM RIGHT NOW that will play audio of otherwise celebrated head coaches telling their players to go knock the other guy out.

This whole thing is about protecting the league's money, not the player's safety. You're delusional if you thing any other thing. Period.

And please stop spinning Nancy around on the merry-go-round so fast or we're going to call your mother.

My guess is that he's from the Falcons. I have been visiting other teams forums for the past couple of weeks and most are sympathetic with Saints fans over this. On the other hand, the Falcons forums are basically celebrating the whole ordeal.

:rolleyes:

I don't blame them for celebrating. It's all they have. If I had to choose though between Bountygate and Vick I'd take Bountygate. Hell, I'd even take Bountygate over all those 4th downs that backfired.

Don't forget this:

Im actually a niner faithful. Nice try though, in tryin to make it seem like i have some personal vendetta because your team won.

The personal attacks truly help prove my point.

This isnt about whether or not other teams supposedly do the same thing. Or whether or not someone did get injured.

Its about GW being such a subpar human being. That he actually paid someone to intentionally inflict serious injuries to another human being. They could have ended someones career.

I'm also not saying to NOT support your team, but what i am saying is that to try to sugar coat the situation or point fingers like its some world wide accepted culture is just sad.

You make yourselves look stupid trying to defend that notion. Ironically it was saints fans trying to claim niner fans as unclassy not too long ago.

[QUOTE=ratchoke99;395412]Its about GW being such a subpar human being. That he actually paid someone to intentionally inflict serious injuries to another human being. They could have ended someones career.

QUOTE]

Agreed about the GW critique... but who did he pay to inflict serious injuries??? Name one Saints player that received money for that. You can't. The Saints were actually one of the least penalized teams last season.

Candlestick Park Arrests: 110 Fans Tossed From Stadium Due To 'Bad Behavior'

'Zero Tolerance For 49ers Fans Behaving Badly on Sunday | NBC Bay Area

Stay Classy San Fran.......

[quote=ChrisXVI;395414]There isn't enough evidence for that as of yet. But to also ignore the fact that GW WAS indeed paying people to inflict injuries, is pretty naive to think no one received that money......

It has been proven and stated by the NFL that they were paying players to inflict serious injuries to other players. The NFL holds NO obligation to release WHO received that money as of yet, especially since no player punishments have been handed out 'yet'.

And please, don't try to misinterpret my post as gloating, or wishing harm to the franchise. I'm simply trying to bring to the attention to the NO fan-base, that trying to defend the acts that GW has been accused and proven of doing, is just ignorant and classless.

Cops: Saints fan shoots two 49ers fans after loss - CBS News

Cool story bro... I could play that game all day. And read the article, it stats FANS, not ONLY Niner fans.

Furthermore, the battle of the bay is not accurately or ever will be accurately reported on. That shooting was between two Raider fans and was GANG related. Not SPORTS related.

Lets not bring up old arguments though. Lets stay on topic and talk about the Mob boss of a defensive coordinator you have ok?

[quote=ratchoke99;395417]So there isn't enough evidence yet but you say he WAS indeed paying players and that it's been proven by the NFL??? Contradiction. Every team's defense has cash incentives for making big plays, but you're implying that Saints players DID commit personal fouls that injured other players and received money for it. I'm just asking who?

[quote=ChrisXVI;395421]I am talking about EVIDENCE given to the PUBLIC, because you asked me to name someone. Goodell has already said THEY have credible evidence of players and payouts. So be patient, and we can come back to that topic another time if you really want to. But I don't think you'll like the outcome.

I don't know of hardly any Saints fans defending Gregg Williams. In fact Gregg Williams and the Saints parted ways this offseason. Gregg Williams is not welcome in New Orleans.

My question is - if Gregg Williams is the culprit and he was banned indefinitely from the NFL (will eventually be reinstated), then why is Sean Payton's name being drug through the mud daily and hourly?

Because it happened while he was head coach?
Did Sean Payton knowingly allow it?
Did Sean Payton give the order to do it? I dunno, I hear Gregg Williams was the culprit.

So far 3 punishments were handed down:

1) The Saints lose their head coach for a season and GM for half the season

2) The Rams lose their Defensive Coordinator - Gregg Williams

3) Gregg Williams who was banned indefinitely from the NFL. Can go Coach in College, the CFL or anywhere he wants to.

No ONE has EVER PUT A MIC in his face or called him out.

Why don't you go find Gregg Williams and ask him?
Where is the ire for Gregg Williams?

Don't blame Saints fans, we just don't think it's fair our Head Coach was suspended for an entire seasons WITHOUT CONCRETE EVIDENCE HE WAS DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THE MATTER!!

Wow, you're sensitive. How were you expecting people to respond to your comments? You came on here and criticized our team and players. This is a Saints board so naturally we're going to defend our team. You're trying to act all righteous meanwhile you call us stupid. If this was happening to your team I'm sure your board would be doing the same thing.

Look, I agree that GW sucks and some of things he said weren't right. I'm assuming you watched the game, did you see the Saints do anything dirty on defense that day? I sure didn't. Just because the coach says a bunch of stupid things doesn't mean the players are going to do it.

If you actually read around on this board you'd find that a lot of us aren't defending GW and are glad he's gone. We're not going to let you come on our board and throw our whole team and fan base under the bus because of GW.

You do realize Gregg Williams is NOT our defensive coordinator right?

GW was let go at the end of the season, BEFORE BOUNTYGATE, and Steve Spagnolo is our defensive coordinator.

I don't want to get into some kind of mudslinging contest here. But please go back and actually read what I wrote.

1) I made no mention of any specific player, the evidence of the ones who did participate have yet to officially been revealed. Although, many speculate Vilma is high on the list.

2) I never said EVERY fan is stupid. I stated very specifically that anyone who IS trying to defend the fact that there were bounties that were given out to injure another player is dumb.

I'm not trying to debate whether or not these fines and or punishments are just cause. I'm trying to bring to light, to the many who believe that this is football, it's rough, they need to man up, and others do it. And so by some odd form of justification, they shouldn't be punished, this wasn't as bad as it sounds, and people need to 'man' up.

P.S. not sensitive, I have no personal relations with any of the players or FO involved. I'm actually just trying to get a better understanding of the minds of the fans who are obviously effected by this. I'm actually having a pretty good laugh.

[quote=ratchoke99;395422]They have evidence of players paying in money... but the evidence of it actually coming to fruition was seen every Sunday on the field. NO Saints player had a personal foul penalty that knocked an opposing player out of the game. You seem to be confusing the idea with it actually happening on the field. If any Saints player gets punished it will be for contributing money to the fund, not for actually "intentionally injuring" anybody as you state has been proven somehow. Watch the actual games.

Did anyone see Darren Woodson on SC today? He said this is common verbage in a defensive team meeting. He agreed with 95% of GW said until he started talking about taking out Crabtree's ACL, he said then he crossed the line. But as bad as the audio sounded, Woodson said 95% of that speech was normal. Any defense would "test" opposing players who have known injuries.

I agree, most of that speech was normal. I even stated the head hitting is probably misheard and is just a metaphor, and that's coming from someone who has 3 different Frank Gore jerseys.

I have a better idea.

Bye

The reason so many people on this board are passing it off as this being part of the NFL culture is because that's what many former players have said. Honestly, I don't like these bounty systems but it's not like GW made up this bounty stuff overnight. Whether other teams did it or not is insignificant, you don't try to hurt another player. I can only speak for myself but I don't condone anyone injuring another player on purpose. People on this board defend the Saints because past players all say this stuff has been happening for a while. We're defending our team because many are making us out to be these bad guys who are the only ones to ever have a bounty system in place.

Hey ratchoke 99, we are obviously intellectually inferior to you and get overly emotional about our team.

I suggest that you go here Saints Super Forum (Main Board) - SaintsReport Community Forums and never come back.
They will treat you with respect. I promise.

This is your quote Ratchoke99
So we're "out of touch" and "asnine" but how do you answer this:

From the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/sp...pagewanted=all

From NPR (and you can listen to the Audio)

Cash For Hits Has Some Calling Foul on NFL : NPR

If you do a basic Google search you will read many such articles.

So everyone here is a member of the "NO fan-base" and you just called us "ignorant and classless."

What reaction did you truly expect???

Fair enough.

LoL, thanks for contributing to the discussion.

So far only one person, Livna - and I thank you, has actually contributed to the discussion; instead of trying to personally attack me......Must mean, in some small level, that most fans do agree, that this act of a coach paying his players to deliberately injure others, is in fact pathetic and disgusting?

I'm not expecting ANY reaction, but I was expecting more to address the discussion topic instead of trying to attack me personally. Although, as I stated, attacking me personally, just proves that there is a certain fanbase out of touch with reality.

And I stated specifically the NO fan-base trying to some how justify what the GW/NO FO did was ok. That because it is supposedly some common culture to pay others to deliberately injure others. It makes it ok, and it is completely a moral gray area. News flash, it's not a moral grey area, anyone who has any type of rational thinking should agree. Yes, it's probably been done before, may be done again, but it does NOT make it right. Trying to some how justify it is just sad, and that is what I was originally pointing out.

This all sounds like window dressing to me. Who in their right mind would actually be suggesting hurting players when there is a camera with audio in your faceand you know you are already being investigated. I can't believe Williams was literal in his speech when describing things like ACLs & concussions. Our players didn't play like they took his words literally. The only player who received a concussion that day was a Saints player, P. T. I wonder if that was what the 49ers DC told them to do. We will soon have a new NFL rule which will state that every defensive team meeting will have to be recorded by an NFL official. I just wonder what other DC say in their meetings about what to do to Brees, Colson, Sproles etc.

Just sayin'!

I'm not exactly stunned.

We have already debated this at length.

Look at some other threads and you will see this.

I, for one, am unwilling to do it all over again for someone else's entertainment.

I'm tired boss.......

Again, read your original post, you started the attacks.

Nope. Proves you were being shot down as a potential troll for joining and asking attacking questions on your first post when you later admitted all you wanted to ask another question.

NOW THIS IS WHERE YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK!

Show me 1 (one) quote from a Saints fan, or anyone here, justifying what GW did was "morally" ok.

There is much debate about the hypocrisy of the NFL in waging war against a single organization where it KNOWINGLY has a wide spread problem.

But I want to read these people who are saying what Gregg Williams did was "OK".

:popcorn:

Now I recognize the name!!! How have you been, rat? How is the lovely Nikkina doing?

Guys, this is an old "friend" of mine from forums.49ers.com. Well, rat? What is your reply to Halo's question?

Thank you for coming all the way here to "bring this to our attention." If you weren't such a troll, you would already know that NOBODY here is defending the acts of Gregg Williams. No one of any importance is defending that there were bounties on hurting players. Period, end of story, now jump in the lake. Here's a hint for you: read a forum and get to know it, before you come in and make yourself look stupid there....

We don't need you to piously lecture us about "what Saints fans are thinking" or tell us how ignorant and classless were are, for thinking things that in reality we don't actually think or believe. THAT is half the reason why Saints fans are pissed off -- because jackasses like you and Peter King etc, want to lecture at us, like as if WE fans were the ones paying the bounties, or as if we are errant school children who need paddling or something, just because we are fans of a particular team.

So thank you for the morality lecture and ethics lesson, but don't be surprised when people here don't want to beat themselves on the heads with boards about the bounties, or lash themselves with whips as punishment to atone for what their beloved Saints did. Would that make you happy? Should we cover ourselves in mud, would you like us to call for Payton to be banished to the desert, or stoned to death, would that please your smug and superior sense of morality? Is there a loyalty oath we can sign, that will make us part of the mainstream United States again? Just a friendly GTFO, man, you don't even know what we are talking about here.

News flash: the last THREE Super Bowl winners, in a row, recently had some kind of bounties or at the very least a specific agenda to specifically target and INJURE specific players. Saints, Packers (admitted to bounties in 2007), and now the Giants. That DOESN'T EQUATE to Saints fans thinking it's "okay" to do it. It's not. But if you can't see the hypocrisy in that, that one team was punished while the others were not, well pardon me if I take my tainted Lombardi, and use it like a billy club to wallop some sense into your head. It doesn't make it RIGHT that other people were doing it, it is also WRONG that only one team conveniently got punished for it, mainly for being "arrogant" and "maverick" and all that other bull****.

You stated "very specifically that anyone who IS trying to defend the fact that there were bounties that were given out to injure another player is dumb." Well I hate to break the news to you, but NO ONE HERE is actually really saying that. We Saints fans are pissed off because the rule is not being enforced across the board, only selectively, and because jackasses like YOU keep wanting to lecture at us!

He's having trouble understand what's being said as it is... please don't encourage him to spew more poop.

LoL wattup!! Always open for healthy discussions!

But these are the only two quotes I've seen on this thread. The original thread that I read when the suspensions were first given out. Is where I read all the stuff about, this is a mans sport, everyone does it, ect. But I'm too lazy to find that thread anymore, but I'm sure no one can deny quotes like that HAVE been said.

So... what part of those two quotes are fans justifying Williams' actions?

As it turns out however, Manning was likely the target of an unspoken understanding by the San Francisco 49ers daunting defense that he was the mouse that made the wheel spin, and in order to stop the well-oiled Giants offensive machine, he needed to be knocked out of the game.

“We need to take him out," cornerback Carlos Rodgers said.

http://www.giants101.com/2012/04/05/...pionship-game/

Thank you LB for finding this gem in the other thread.

Ratchoke99, you came here making asinine assumptions and ill-informed statements and talk about having "healthy discussions." Nothing you've said has contributed to anything of a realistic discussion of the issue.

Ok, mister Sensitive, I was hoping someone like you would come around here.
first where did I say this was ok to hurt a player? I said what I was taught as a young boy playing football. To hit the man with the ball. It's a pep talk. I guess you never played a down in your life. Or maybe you did and just watch from the sideline. Either way you hit the man with the ball, so you can get it back. I should not have to tell you this.
Now I will say that I thought this was all blown out of content because, I use to hear that kind of speech before we played the game. No one and I mean No one ever tried to take a player out for a career. But after hearing the whole tape for the first time, I do think he went over the board, with the keep hitting them in the head, roll the hits on a acl. That I will say is over the line. I'm glad we didn't actually do any of this to your team.
I do remember hearing this.
1.11: Bill Romanowski calls Saints-49ers 'stretcher game' *COURTESY 95.7 THE GAME*
Know did your team have any kind of pep talk like this before our game? Who came in and gave a speech to your players before the game. Did they say " ok we don't want to hit them hard enough to get the ball back, lets hope we can hold them to field goals".
B.S., I will defend what I said all day long. But not once did I agree or will agree to take a player out of his career
So when your guys where also saying the same thing "we need to take him out" on eli, I bet a coach never told them to do that right.
http://www.giants101.com/2012/04/05/...pionship-game/

It's ok, according to rat if you tell someone to do something and they don't do it then they're still guilty because you told them to do it.

DING ... DING ... DING!!!

We have a winner!!

Please state where I said that.....

I stated multiple times, this is a discussion of how GW/FO did something completely immoral. Which I'll once again repeat, was paying players to deliberately HURT other players in a professional sport. And that the FANS who want to some how oddly justify it or defend the act because it's a rough sport, and it's a supposedly accepted culture within the sport, are completely, well dumb.

But since you brought it up, yes, the players are still guilty; it's called being an accessory to a crime.

Personally I don't think anything GW said in that audio is as audacious as Comrade Goodell claims. The whole "hit the head" thing refers to earlier in the pep talk when Williams asked how to kill the snake. "You take out the head". He was speaking metaphorically & it seems to me like his words are being twisted. As for the Crabtree ACL comments......he asked them to test it, as would any coach. Where are the bounty offers, cart off comments, etc.... that Comrade Goodell lead on about? I didn't hear anything on that audio remotely close to those allegations.