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Saints Pick Akeim Hicks DT - Regina Canada

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by burningmetal I didn't think I'd be in the minority when I thought this after the Saints picked Hicks, but I guess I am. I'm totally unimpressed with the pick. Not because he doesn't have potential, which he ...

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Old 04-28-2012, 04:25 AM   #1
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I didn't think I'd be in the minority when I thought this after the Saints picked Hicks, but I guess I am. I'm totally unimpressed with the pick. Not because he doesn't have potential, which he does, but because we didn't have a need so great at DT that we had to draft yet another project when there were more proven players at other positions of need. Loomis has hit some home runs with these types of players, as we all know, but he's also struck out a few times. I thought there were some very good players surprisingly left on the board, but apparently they are in love with this guy.

We don't have very good OT's. They're serviceable, but require a lot of help from the tight ends which takes away from the amount of time Jimmy Graham can be on the field. Bobby Massie was right there, and they didn't take him. Jared Crick, a more polished DT, was there, Ladarius Green was there if the Saints were interested in some play making depth behind Graham. But oh well, all I can do is hope it works out.

I like the pick in itself, and I do think that a playmaking DT was the biggest need they had going into the draft, but I do agree that a 3rd round pick might be higher than I would've liked to see them spend on him.

But like Mayock continuously said during the 1st round coverage - if the pick works out it doesn't matter what you had to give up to get the guy.

I guess they really liked him, and thought that he'd be off the board when they'd be on the clock for the next time, for all we know he might've been the BPA in a need position, so I can't really fault the decision.

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Old 04-28-2012, 05:33 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I didn't think I'd be in the minority when I thought this after the Saints picked Hicks, but I guess I am. I'm totally unimpressed with the pick. Not because he doesn't have potential, which he does, but because we didn't have a need so great at DT that we had to draft yet another project when there were more proven players at other positions of need. Loomis has hit some home runs with these types of players, as we all know, but he's also struck out a few times. I thought there were some very good players surprisingly left on the board, but apparently they are in love with this guy.

We don't have very good OT's. They're serviceable, but require a lot of help from the tight ends which takes away from the amount of time Jimmy Graham can be on the field. Bobby Massie was right there, and they didn't take him. Jared Crick, a more polished DT, was there, Ladarius Green was there if the Saints were interested in some play making depth behind Graham. But oh well, all I can do is hope it works out.
My friend, I understand your concerns but to mention our offense's shortcomings after the season we had last year, especially your comment on Jimmy Graham's playing time seems a little unnecessary. We needed to address our defense, especially our Line as one of our problems was lack of Qb pressure. Yes this guy is raw but so is a steak until given some heat and some spices and...erm, a little barbecue glaze with...ah, erm...sorry, can't finish my point as I need to get something to Eat. Bye.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:15 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by SaintGup View Post
My friend, I understand your concerns but to mention our offense's shortcomings after the season we had last year, especially your comment on Jimmy Graham's playing time seems a little unnecessary. We needed to address our defense, especially our Line as one of our problems was lack of Qb pressure. Yes this guy is raw but so is a steak until given some heat and some spices and...erm, a little barbecue glaze with...ah, erm...sorry, can't finish my point as I need to get something to Eat. Bye.
I think those of you who are disagreeing with me are missing my point. I didn't particularly want an offensive guy, but in the 3rd round there isn't a lot of elite talent left on the board. So you take the best player regardless of position, unless it's a quarterback or running back, which we obviously have no need or lack of depth there.

I mentioned Massie because he was, in my opinion, the best player left on the board. I haven't forgotten the Rams game last year when Drew nearly got killed. Our tackles are only saved by Drew's ability to feel the pressure, step up and make quick decisions. We signed Brodrick Bunkley, so we're already better at DT than we have been in a while. Could we use another? Sure, but I don't believe Hicks is good enough, or specifically reliable enough to warrant being picked over some of the other talent that was there.

This isn't a blue collar, great work ethic, physical specimen that Graham, Colston and Evans have been as project type players. He's got the physical part, but he doesn't have the greatest attitude, and that's what keeps me from feeling very confident about him. You can't get better if you don't want to work hard 100% of the time. But I will of course be pulling for him now that he's on our team.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:55 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I think those of you who are disagreeing with me are missing my point. I didn't particularly want an offensive guy, but in the 3rd round there isn't a lot of elite talent left on the board. So you take the best player regardless of position, unless it's a quarterback or running back, which we obviously have no need or lack of depth there.

I do understand your sentiment and I agree with you on it, but there's a difference in picking the BPA and picking the BPA with an emphasis on need.

I have to think that Hicks was the BPA for the Saints among the positions of need they had decided to target before the draft, and so I have to think that the Saints staff and FO saw in him something that in their opinion warranted the 3rd round pick. The GMs and the FOs in general know more about the other teams' interests and plans than we probably give them credit for, and there might've been a strong inclination that some other team would've pulled the trigger on Hicks before the Saints' 4th round pick.

In light of these conclusions, whether their right or wrong, I do feel good about this pick even though I would've never thought back in February that Hicks would be picked as high as in the late 3rd round.


Just to further strengthen my point, this is from the other thread, the press conference with Vitt and Spags about Hicks:

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/news...8-3995feacdb09


Vitt:

We tried to get a group of players that we thought would be there at this time in the draft. I know you’re going to think that I’m making this up, but he was at the top of the list of our board when it was our pick. If he wasn’t there, Mickey was entertaining some phone calls to move down. But this is the player we covered and the one that we wanted and the one we studied the most on Friday. It worked out well.

Naturally, they aren't going to say that anything negative about the pick, but it would seem that he was the BPA in a need position for the Saints.

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Old 04-28-2012, 08:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I think those of you who are disagreeing with me are missing my point. I didn't particularly want an offensive guy, but in the 3rd round there isn't a lot of elite talent left on the board. So you take the best player regardless of position, unless it's a quarterback or running back, which we obviously have no need or lack of depth there.

I mentioned Massie because he was, in my opinion, the best player left on the board. I haven't forgotten the Rams game last year when Drew nearly got killed. Our tackles are only saved by Drew's ability to feel the pressure, step up and make quick decisions. We signed Brodrick Bunkley, so we're already better at DT than we have been in a while. Could we use another? Sure, but I don't believe Hicks is good enough, or specifically reliable enough to warrant being picked over some of the other talent that was there.

This isn't a blue collar, great work ethic, physical specimen that Graham, Colston and Evans have been as project type players. He's got the physical part, but he doesn't have the greatest attitude, and that's what keeps me from feeling very confident about him. You can't get better if you don't want to work hard 100% of the time. But I will of course be pulling for him now that he's on our team.
I have to agree with you. He was a reach in the 3rd. I've read many who say he'd have been there in the 4th and maybe even the 5th.

I don't dislike the pick because he does have some awesome potential, but it appears there were better players on most boards. I also trust the new staff. There's something they really like in this guy so they nabbed him.

I do feel that the absense of a 1st and 2nd round pick probably forced us to factor need into the equation more than we normally do.

The guy is raw, but his upside is off the charts, and we have a defensive coach with an eye for D-linemen and the talent to coach them to their potential.

Right now I'd grade the pick a B-minus, but most of us can't name 20 players strengths and weaknesses once we look outside of the SEC.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:10 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I think those of you who are disagreeing with me are missing my point. I didn't particularly want an offensive guy, but in the 3rd round there isn't a lot of elite talent left on the board. So you take the best player regardless of position, unless it's a quarterback or running back, which we obviously have no need or lack of depth there.

I mentioned Massie because he was, in my opinion, the best player left on the board. I haven't forgotten the Rams game last year when Drew nearly got killed. Our tackles are only saved by Drew's ability to feel the pressure, step up and make quick decisions. We signed Brodrick Bunkley, so we're already better at DT than we have been in a while. Could we use another? Sure, but I don't believe Hicks is good enough, or specifically reliable enough to warrant being picked over some of the other talent that was there.

This isn't a blue collar, great work ethic, physical specimen that Graham, Colston and Evans have been as project type players. He's got the physical part, but he doesn't have the greatest attitude, and that's what keeps me from feeling very confident about him. You can't get better if you don't want to work hard 100% of the time. But I will of course be pulling for him now that he's on our team.

I agree for the most part with everything you said EXCEPT the last paragraph. I think you are dead wrong.

How do you figure he doesn't have the greatest attitude? Considering what happened at LSU, I think he is VERY humble.

He is EXACTLY a blue collar player. He had high hopes of playing for one of the best college football programs in the country and through no fault of his own, was taken away from him. He had to go to Canada for crying out loud!! To even be invited to the combine speaks VOLUMES on this guys heart and work ethic.

How do you figure he doesn't work hard 100% of the time? Do you have inside info on this guy none of us have seen?

It's one thing to not like a player/pick but don't start making things up that, from what we have seen on this guy, he has all the physical tools to be successfull NFL, just needs some technique work.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I didn't think I'd be in the minority when I thought this after the Saints picked Hicks, but I guess I am. I'm totally unimpressed with the pick. Not because he doesn't have potential, which he does, but because we didn't have a need so great at DT that we had to draft yet another project when there were more proven players at other positions of need. Loomis has hit some home runs with these types of players, as we all know, but he's also struck out a few times. I thought there were some very good players surprisingly left on the board, but apparently they are in love with this guy.

We don't have very good OT's. They're serviceable, but require a lot of help from the tight ends which takes away from the amount of time Jimmy Graham can be on the field. Bobby Massie was right there, and they didn't take him. Jared Crick, a more polished DT, was there, Ladarius Green was there if the Saints were interested in some play making depth behind Graham. But oh well, all I can do is hope it works out.
hmm... Saints offense the last 6 years: 1, 4, 1, 1, 6 (with Drew playing on a bad knee), and un-freaking-believable.

On the other hand, the Saints defense the last 6 years, other than 2009 with all the turnovers which kept giving the ball back to the best O in football, nnnnnot so hot, especially after 2 consecutive playoff meltdowns, lest we forget Lynch ginsu'ing the D in 2010, and not being able to stop Joe Montana in 4 consecutive drives last year. Oh, wait, that was Alex Smith.. my bad.

If Spagnuolo wants this young man, let him have it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
hmm... Saints offense the last 6 years: 1, 4, 1, 1, 6 (with Drew playing on a bad knee), and un-freaking-believable.

On the other hand, the Saints defense the last 6 years, other than 2009 with all the turnovers which kept giving the ball back to the best O in football, nnnnnot so hot, especially after 2 consecutive playoff meltdowns, lest we forget Lynch ginsu'ing the D in 2010, and not being able to stop Joe Montana in 4 consecutive drives last year. Oh, wait, that was Alex Smith.. my bad.

If Spagnuolo wants this young man, let him have it.
I think we can all agree that the Saints wanted him or they wouldn't have taken him. I am only giving my opinion on a pick that I did not personally care for. I think he has potential but I don't agree with the Saints grade on him.

I understand that we have a great offense, and I mentioned that in a reply to someone else on here. But we have already upgraded quite a bit through free agency on the defensive side of the ball, so I don't see a glaring need there. I do agree, of course, that we need more help on defense still, than we do on offense. But we have weak offensive tackles who almost got drew killed against the Rams, and forced the Saints to come up with a new blocking scheme to help those guys out. If anything happens to Drew, you can forget about the offense, so don't you want to keep him upright? I'm not saying we had to select Massie, but I thought he was more of a sure thing than Hicks. We upgraded at DT with Bunkley, and we could use some depth there, but what sort of depth do we have at OT?

If we had a pick in the first two rounds then absolutely we could have gotten a more proven impact defensive player, and that would have been great. But now we just have to hope that Hicks works out. Remember Jonathan Sullivan? Al Woods, Demario Pressley, Sedrick Ellis? The Saints have done a poor job drafting DT's and Ellis is the only guy who wasn't a complete flop. Then they sign Franklin and Rogers last year and that bombed.

So pardon me if I don't just bow to the Saints and automatically trust them when they Draft a guy like this. I love the Saints, and think they are brilliant with most things, but this is an area where I will be skeptical until given a reason not to be.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:38 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I think we can all agree that the Saints wanted him or they wouldn't have taken him. I am only giving my opinion on a pick that I did not personally care for. I think he has potential but I don't agree with the Saints grade on him.

I understand that we have a great offense, and I mentioned that in a reply to someone else on here. But we have already upgraded quite a bit through free agency on the defensive side of the ball, so I don't see a glaring need there. I do agree, of course, that we need more help on defense still, than we do on offense. But we have weak offensive tackles who almost got drew killed against the Rams, and forced the Saints to come up with a new blocking scheme to help those guys out. If anything happens to Drew, you can forget about the offense, so don't you want to keep him upright? I'm not saying we had to select Massie, but I thought he was more of a sure thing than Hicks. We upgraded at DT with Bunkley, and we could use some depth there, but what sort of depth do we have at OT?

If we had a pick in the first two rounds then absolutely we could have gotten a more proven impact defensive player, and that would have been great. But now we just have to hope that Hicks works out. Remember Jonathan Sullivan? Al Woods, Demario Pressley, Sedrick Ellis? The Saints have done a poor job drafting DT's and Ellis is the only guy who wasn't a complete flop. Then they sign Franklin and Rogers last year and that bombed.

So pardon me if I don't just bow to the Saints and automatically trust them when they Draft a guy like this. I love the Saints, and think they are brilliant with most things, but this is an area where I will be skeptical until given a reason not to be.
My response was directed to the comment you made about OT being a bigger need than defense. Yes, "serviceable" OTs, who are part of the best offense in football the last 6 years.

And yes, I remember the Sullivans, the Grants, the Dunbars, the Bates, the Kings... I remember a lot of players from waaaaaaayyy back. I'm old, you know?

And as for "flopping" on defensive picks, was it the players or the coaching?
Because Abrayo Franklin was damn good in SF, and Rodgers dominated games in Cleveland. And you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say the Saints have done a bad job of choosing DTs on one sentence, then on the other say they have upgraded the line enough... how can they upgrade enough if they suck at picking DTs? If they are that bad at picking DT talent, better get as many as they can in there, no?

Anyway, you can be as skeptical as you want and make too much ado about draft picks like a great number of NFL fans, especially after reading some scouting reports and watching clips on youtube (because reallly, have you ever seen a complete game played by Hicks?).

Personally, I really don't care that much about the draft and all the hype that comes with it, who picks who on what round, the grades, winners and losers, etc...

And yes, bow down to Loomistofeles!
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:53 PM   #10
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Would have been fine with picking him if it were maybe the 5th or 6th round, but this was a reach in my opinion.
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