The Union Weighs in On Player Punishments

saintfan · 05-03-2012, 12:13 PM

I'd rather see the season suspended than to see Roger get away with what he has, so far, managed to get away with. As "Big Worm" stated so eloquently, "There's principalities involved!"

Seriously. This is an attempt at getting a leg up on player lawsuits and the NFLPA. It is being manipulated at every turn and it should not be allowed. I'd seriously rather see the league dismantled and rebuilt in a year or three than to see this continue under Roger Goodell.

I have to respectfully disagree 626. That ONE MAN has the authority to take away another man's ability to make money without giving that man the opportunity to speak for himself OR show him the evidence against him is precisely unAmerican and SHOULD land on the steps of the Supreme Court.

You don't know if any of the suspended are innocent or not, because you haven't seen the evidence. Neither have I. Neither have they. That just isn't right.

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 12:20 PM

If the players do appeal, and it sounds as if they will, they go right back to a familiar source. They appeal to Goodell. Unlike other pro athletes, NFL players didn't negotiate the right to independent arbitration in their new collective bargaining agreement. And because Goodell made the decision that the Saints' transgressions are off-the-field issues, appeals go directly to him.

Brennan: NFLPA wrong on Bountygate Saints; Goodell makes right call

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

I have to respectfully disagree 626. That ONE MAN has the authority to take away another man's ability to make money without giving that man the opportunity to speak for himself OR show him the evidence against him is precisely unAmerican and SHOULD land on the steps of the Supreme Court.

I appreciate your view... However there is evidence. Public evidence that people seem to forget.

Once Fujita and Hargrove ADMITTED to it.... it was all over but the crying. How much more evidence is needed?

Once a suspect pleads guilty, the case is over...he is now in the hands of Judge or jury for punishment.

I know there are loose ends in the public eye, Ill bet a years pay Goodell can tie them up very quickly but is choosing not to do so because he would have to sacrifice the lamb (Greg Williams).

pherein · 05-03-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink.

The catch is "proving" the following:

He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is.

As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot.

What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire.

The NFLPA and the owners made this monster.

In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers.

I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this.

Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion.

Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us.

Cool..

Well, that guy was very limited in the possibilities they have for a court to hear the case. Its actually if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell. So, just a little more than he explained, but to your points. I won't even cover breach of contract, thats a possibility also.

He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is.
[*]As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot.

Well, the players can show he is violating the integrity of the game by.
1. Suspending players arbitrarily on assumption, and no evidence.
2. Imposting player safety issues based on lawsuits, and not based on player health. The NFL has know about this sense this problem for some time know.
3. Using the senates proposal to reduce fines,, against Godell, because the NFL knew this was happening as far back as 2005 in GB.
4. Maliciously lying about said evidence proving the player involved.
Lots of things.
5. The disproportional discipline given to the Saints as oppose to others, show bias.

Not sure if anyone can prove he overstepped his bounds, but easy to prove he's a ego maniac. All they need to do is get a judge to say , yes you have a case.

IF GW is on the stand there is no suspensions until the trial is done

That could be years.
Plus, GW is not a good witness for the defense. The players can show he's testifying to keep his job, and prove he has lied before. GW could be discredited on the stand easily.
And might not do it, knowing what else will come out about his conduct on other teams.
GW is screwed anyway you look at it. His smartest move is to shop for a university to coach.

Well, they would take it to the supreme court only to erase the antitrust agreement, as unconstitutional. That is so they can bring Godell to court with not antitrust agreement in place. But, that is only if they are blocked by it and no judge will hear the case.
I don't think I would be upset. Thats their job. And to tell you the truth, as you said, you right. The antitrust agreement is against american principles and rights as an individual to seek council and defend yourself. Thats why they struck it down before.
IF the NFL can have this agreement, then who's next ?
Your work place ? IBM,Microsoft, ATT. The agreement is nuts, and Im a little disappointed that Brees was not more vocal it.
Its a constitutional right to trial, face your accuser and evidence against you.

Well, personally Im not sure the NFL owners will let it go to court

Thats the point in doing it. Its better for them to cut their losses, fire godell to save face, reinstate the Saints players, so they can keep the antitrust agreement in place, and continue the revenue.

At this point our Saints could be Boo'd by Philly fans for things they never did, and the NFL is ok with that. Im not.

Oh , don't worry we will have football, but I nice clubbing of the godell seal by Vilma on the side makes a nice side dish to watching the saints play, at least for me.

pherein · 05-03-2012, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

If the players do appeal, and it sounds as if they will, they go right back to a familiar source. They appeal to Goodell. Unlike other pro athletes, NFL players didn't negotiate the right to independent arbitration in their new collective bargaining agreement. And because Goodell made the decision that the Saints' transgressions are off-the-field issues, appeals go directly to him.

Brennan: NFLPA wrong on Bountygate Saints; Goodell makes right call

NFLPA appeals mean nothing its the court case thats fun

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

I appreciate your view... However there is evidence. Public evidence that people seem to forget.

Once Fujita and Hargrove ADMITTED to it.... it was all over but the crying. How much more evidence is needed?

Im only speaking for Vilma he has a very strong case

FinSaint · 05-03-2012, 12:43 PM

Wasn't one of Harrison's recent appeals heard before someone else than Goodell, even though it was originally supposed to be heard by him alone, at least I seem to recall that having been mentioned in some program I was watching?

pherein · 05-03-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Wasn't one of Harrison's recent appeals heard before someone else than Goodell, even though it was originally supposed to be heard by him alone, at least I seem to recall that having been mentioned in some program I was watching?

LOL, Harrison is someone that might be able to prove Bias, lol, maybe he was looking into that.

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Wasn't one of Harrison's recent appeals heard before someone else than Goodell, even though it was originally supposed to be heard by him alone, at least I seem to recall that having been mentioned in some program I was watching?

The catch to Harrison is that his actions were "on the field". Those appeals go to Ted Contrell, or Art Shell.

First bounty battle could relate to who handles the appeals | ProFootballTalk

saintfan · 05-03-2012, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

I appreciate your view... However there is evidence. Public evidence that people seem to forget.

Once Fujita and Hargrove ADMITTED to it.... it was all over but the crying. How much more evidence is needed?

Once a suspect pleads guilty, the case is over...he is now in the hands of Judge or jury for punishment.

I know there are loose ends in the public eye, Ill bet a years pay Goodell can tie them up very quickly but is choosing not to do so because he would have to sacrifice the lamb (Greg Williams).

I have seen or heard NOTHING stating Will Smith or Jonathan Vilma did anything wrong that wasn't pumped out through the media by Roger Goodell. Not a Single Thing. ZERO. Even if Vilma or Smith said there was a program, that's not saying they took part in it...and they are seemingly adamant that they didn't.

You shouldn't have to wager a years pay. That's the point. There should be nothing to wager on at this point since the punishment has been handed down. There should be NO WAY in the United States that ONE MAN can remove another man's ability to make money in his chosen profession without SOLID, IRON CLAD, 100% ACCURATE PROOF of his case. That SHOULD NOT be allowed to happen in this country. PERIOD.

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

I have seen or heard NOTHING stating Will Smith or Jonathan Vilma did anything wrong that wasn't pumped out through the media by Roger Goodell. Not a Single Thing. ZERO. Even if Vilma or Smith said there was a program, that's not saying they took part in it...and they are seemingly adamant that they didn't.

You shouldn't have to wager a years pay. That's the point. There should be nothing to wager on at this point since the punishment has been handed down. There should be NO WAY in the United States that ONE MAN can remove another man's ability to make money in his chosen profession without SOLID, IRON CLAD, 100% ACCURATE PROOF of his case. That SHOULD NOT be allowed to happen in this country. PERIOD.

Ever hear of a "hire at will" state? people are terminated from their jobs every day for ZERO reason.

05-03-2012, 12:13 PM	#31
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	I'd rather see the season suspended than to see Roger get away with what he has, so far, managed to get away with. As "Big Worm" stated so eloquently, "There's principalities involved!" Seriously. This is an attempt at getting a leg up on player lawsuits and the NFLPA. It is being manipulated at every turn and it should not be allowed. I'd seriously rather see the league dismantled and rebuilt in a year or three than to see this continue under Roger Goodell. I have to respectfully disagree 626. That ONE MAN has the authority to take away another man's ability to make money without giving that man the opportunity to speak for himself OR show him the evidence against him is precisely unAmerican and SHOULD land on the steps of the Supreme Court. You don't know if any of the suspended are innocent or not, because you haven't seen the evidence. Neither have I. Neither have they. That just isn't right.
	C'mon Man...

05-03-2012, 12:28 PM	#33
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Originally Posted by saintfan I have to respectfully disagree 626. That ONE MAN has the authority to take away another man's ability to make money without giving that man the opportunity to speak for himself OR show him the evidence against him is precisely unAmerican and SHOULD land on the steps of the Supreme Court. I appreciate your view... However there is evidence. Public evidence that people seem to forget. Once Fujita and Hargrove ADMITTED to it.... it was all over but the crying. How much more evidence is needed? Once a suspect pleads guilty, the case is over...he is now in the hands of Judge or jury for punishment. I know there are loose ends in the public eye, Ill bet a years pay Goodell can tie them up very quickly but is choosing not to do so because he would have to sacrifice the lamb (Greg Williams).

05-03-2012, 12:41 PM	#34
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by x626xBlack Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink. The catch is "proving" the following: He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is. As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot. What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire. The NFLPA and the owners made this monster. In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers. I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this. Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion. Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us. Cool.. Well, that guy was very limited in the possibilities they have for a court to hear the case. Its actually if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell. So, just a little more than he explained, but to your points. I won't even cover breach of contract, thats a possibility also. He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is. [*]As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot. Well, the players can show he is violating the integrity of the game by. 1. Suspending players arbitrarily on assumption, and no evidence. 2. Imposting player safety issues based on lawsuits, and not based on player health. The NFL has know about this sense this problem for some time know. 3. Using the senates proposal to reduce fines,, against Godell, because the NFL knew this was happening as far back as 2005 in GB. 4. Maliciously lying about said evidence proving the player involved. Lots of things. 5. The disproportional discipline given to the Saints as oppose to others, show bias. Not sure if anyone can prove he overstepped his bounds, but easy to prove he's a ego maniac. All they need to do is get a judge to say , yes you have a case. IF GW is on the stand there is no suspensions until the trial is done That could be years. Plus, GW is not a good witness for the defense. The players can show he's testifying to keep his job, and prove he has lied before. GW could be discredited on the stand easily. And might not do it, knowing what else will come out about his conduct on other teams. GW is screwed anyway you look at it. His smartest move is to shop for a university to coach. Well, they would take it to the supreme court only to erase the antitrust agreement, as unconstitutional. That is so they can bring Godell to court with not antitrust agreement in place. But, that is only if they are blocked by it and no judge will hear the case. I don't think I would be upset. Thats their job. And to tell you the truth, as you said, you right. The antitrust agreement is against american principles and rights as an individual to seek council and defend yourself. Thats why they struck it down before. IF the NFL can have this agreement, then who's next ? Your work place ? IBM,Microsoft, ATT. The agreement is nuts, and Im a little disappointed that Brees was not more vocal it. Its a constitutional right to trial, face your accuser and evidence against you. Well, personally Im not sure the NFL owners will let it go to court Thats the point in doing it. Its better for them to cut their losses, fire godell to save face, reinstate the Saints players, so they can keep the antitrust agreement in place, and continue the revenue. At this point our Saints could be Boo'd by Philly fans for things they never did, and the NFL is ok with that. Im not. Oh , don't worry we will have football, but I nice clubbing of the godell seal by Vilma on the side makes a nice side dish to watching the saints play, at least for me.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 05-03-2012 at 01:33 PM..

05-03-2012, 12:43 PM	#35
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by x626xBlack If the players do appeal, and it sounds as if they will, they go right back to a familiar source. They appeal to Goodell. Unlike other pro athletes, NFL players didn't negotiate the right to independent arbitration in their new collective bargaining agreement. And because Goodell made the decision that the Saints' transgressions are off-the-field issues, appeals go directly to him. Brennan: NFLPA wrong on Bountygate Saints; Goodell makes right call NFLPA appeals mean nothing its the court case thats fun Originally Posted by x626xBlack I appreciate your view... However there is evidence. Public evidence that people seem to forget. Once Fujita and Hargrove ADMITTED to it.... it was all over but the crying. How much more evidence is needed? Im only speaking for Vilma he has a very strong case

05-03-2012, 12:46 PM	#37
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by FinSaint Wasn't one of Harrison's recent appeals heard before someone else than Goodell, even though it was originally supposed to be heard by him alone, at least I seem to recall that having been mentioned in some program I was watching? LOL, Harrison is someone that might be able to prove Bias, lol, maybe he was looking into that.

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05-03-2012, 12:20 PM	#32
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	If the players do appeal, and it sounds as if they will, they go right back to a familiar source. They appeal to Goodell. Unlike other pro athletes, NFL players didn't negotiate the right to independent arbitration in their new collective bargaining agreement. And because Goodell made the decision that the Saints' transgressions are off-the-field issues, appeals go directly to him. Brennan: NFLPA wrong on Bountygate Saints; Goodell makes right call

05-03-2012, 12:43 PM	#36
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Wasn't one of Harrison's recent appeals heard before someone else than Goodell, even though it was originally supposed to be heard by him alone, at least I seem to recall that having been mentioned in some program I was watching?

05-03-2012, 12:58 PM	#38
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Originally Posted by FinSaint Wasn't one of Harrison's recent appeals heard before someone else than Goodell, even though it was originally supposed to be heard by him alone, at least I seem to recall that having been mentioned in some program I was watching? The catch to Harrison is that his actions were "on the field". Those appeals go to Ted Contrell, or Art Shell. First bounty battle could relate to who handles the appeals \| ProFootballTalk

05-03-2012, 01:02 PM	#39
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by x626xBlack I appreciate your view... However there is evidence. Public evidence that people seem to forget. Once Fujita and Hargrove ADMITTED to it.... it was all over but the crying. How much more evidence is needed? Once a suspect pleads guilty, the case is over...he is now in the hands of Judge or jury for punishment. I know there are loose ends in the public eye, Ill bet a years pay Goodell can tie them up very quickly but is choosing not to do so because he would have to sacrifice the lamb (Greg Williams). I have seen or heard NOTHING stating Will Smith or Jonathan Vilma did anything wrong that wasn't pumped out through the media by Roger Goodell. Not a Single Thing. ZERO. Even if Vilma or Smith said there was a program, that's not saying they took part in it...and they are seemingly adamant that they didn't. You shouldn't have to wager a years pay. That's the point. There should be nothing to wager on at this point since the punishment has been handed down. There should be NO WAY in the United States that ONE MAN can remove another man's ability to make money in his chosen profession without SOLID, IRON CLAD, 100% ACCURATE PROOF of his case. That SHOULD NOT be allowed to happen in this country. PERIOD. pherein likes this.
	C'mon Man...

05-03-2012, 02:18 PM	#40
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Originally Posted by saintfan I have seen or heard NOTHING stating Will Smith or Jonathan Vilma did anything wrong that wasn't pumped out through the media by Roger Goodell. Not a Single Thing. ZERO. Even if Vilma or Smith said there was a program, that's not saying they took part in it...and they are seemingly adamant that they didn't. You shouldn't have to wager a years pay. That's the point. There should be nothing to wager on at this point since the punishment has been handed down. There should be NO WAY in the United States that ONE MAN can remove another man's ability to make money in his chosen profession without SOLID, IRON CLAD, 100% ACCURATE PROOF of his case. That SHOULD NOT be allowed to happen in this country. PERIOD. Ever hear of a "hire at will" state? people are terminated from their jobs every day for ZERO reason.

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