Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations

The Dude · 08-22-2012, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by TXGSP

Not sure there is much progress towards any settlement - something would have been "LEAKED". It has happened too much during this entire situation.

I really don't expect anything prior to the 30th - even if it is nothing more than the court accepting the case. The judge may be waiting to see what the last appeal produces - to see what the legal ramifications are. The judge may still not see a legal way to reverse anything that would not be overturned and not issue a ruling.

If anything pushes this to being viewed as a salary cap violation, I think Benson will become outspoken and very harsh of the league office (may not speak publically though). It may give Benson the upperhand to make a move - it is "his" team. Suspensions are not a possible punishment for the FO, coaches, or players and Benson could force the issue to get them removed.

I'm still not completely convinced Payton and Vitt will not be on the sidelines (Loomis in his box) for the opener of the season (several things are still outstanding that could go either way to prevent that, but it is still a possibility).

I think there is an absolute 0% chance any of the coaches or Loomis will sniff the facility until their suspensions are served. Goodell has stuck his neck out too far to reverse it and cause a major PR suicide.

thefifthwall · 08-22-2012, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

Interesting thought BUT I'm pretty sure many feel like that whistle-blower is a coward hiding behind Goodell. Probably a former employee....

The former employee started it and that got a warning from Goodell. But there seems to be a missing link somewhere in 2010-2011. Could they be protecting the whistleblower and the Saints? I just don't see Payton/Loomis going down quietly on what we've seen so far. There's something missing or being kept from the public.

Tobias-Reiper · 08-22-2012, 09:08 PM

Given Benson's trip to NY and the silence, what I think could happen:

the NFL could "hint" to Burbank (the NFL arbitrator) that this whole bounty thing indeed needs to be ruled a salary cap violation, and in the course of the ruling, "something" is discovered which in the eyes of the Commisioner, under new light, discredits the accusations that Vilma offered the cash; Goddell apologizes for his over-zealousness over player safety, Vilma gets his rep back; suspensions are lifted, the matter is no longer under Goddell's jurisdiction, Goddell gets to save face - ironically still hiding behind the CBA ; the arbitrators who have jurisdiction over salary cap arbitration do what they do: figure out how much money was made, players pay back, maybe a game suspension for all. Players happy, evidence remains a corporate secret.

The whole thing with the "evidence", I have a feeling that there is either absolutely nothing, or there is something that proves similar money pools league-wide. In either case, the NFL is screwed if the "evidence" (or lack thereof): lying about having evidence, bad. Evidence showing league-wide practice, bad.

I definitely don't think the NFL is trying to protect the Saints in any way, shape, or form. We KNOW there's nothing to the NFL claims. We watch the games. We see who the Saints hit and how they hit them. We saw all those players who they said the Saints targeted have great games against them and leave the field rather healthy.

thefifthwall · 08-22-2012, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

At this point, having Vilma ready to "play" is least of my concerns.

I'm more concerned with what is behind the curtain. This topic has been red hot for weeks and now, all of a sudden, it's crickets...

My fear is that the league (and commish) is more mighty than we thought and the league would be vulnerable to whatever has been delayed from our view.

Another thing that's been in the back of my head is your organization just got torpedoed by the NFL and you suspend your granddaughter for partying & not taking her job serious enough. Kinda funny timing ?

saintfan · 08-23-2012, 12:21 AM

All I know for sure is there is a REASON Roger won't show what he says he has. Either it's damning on a much grander scale OR he simply doesn't have anything. I don't think he's got jack.

I think we certainly did have a pot from which players were rewarded and fined for their play on the field, and while everybody and their pet hamster knows this is a league-wide practice, we got busted. So Sean and Loomie should do some time. It's their ship. But they shouldn't have to do a YEAR, and they wouldn't be doing a year if Roger hadn't seized on this opportunity to show the world how thoughtful the NFL is toward it's players. Our coach and GM were/are at Roger's mercy and that's just the way it is.

The players on the other hand not so much. So what's my expectation?

Jon is going to have his day in court, and I fully suspect, as someone else has already said, the league will back off, Vilma will get his apology, the Roger will do his level best to tuck this away when the season starts.

I just hope the fans don't allow him to do that. Roger needs to burn for this. I don't 'expect' he will, but I do hope and pray for his demise. The man is wrecking our game.

saintfan · 08-23-2012, 12:22 AM

All I know for sure is there is a REASON Roger won't show what he says he has. Either it's damning on a much grander scale OR he simply doesn't have anything. I don't think he's got jack.

I think we certainly did have a pot from which players were rewarded and fined for their play on the field, and while everybody and their pet hamster knows this is a league-wide practice, we got busted. So Sean and Loomie should do some time. It's their ship. But they shouldn't have to do a YEAR, and they wouldn't be doing a year if Roger hadn't seized on this opportunity to show the world how thoughtful the NFL is toward it's players. Our coach and GM were/are at Roger's mercy and that's just the way it is.

The players on the other hand not so much. So what's my expectation?

Jon is going to have his day in court, and I fully suspect, as someone else has already said, the league will back off, Vilma will get his apology, the Roger will do his level best to tuck this away when the season starts.

I just hope the fans don't allow him to do that. Roger needs to burn for this. I don't 'expect' he will, but I do hope and pray for his demise. The man is wrecking our game.

lee909 · 08-23-2012, 08:08 AM

I don't see any changes happening in regards to suspensions.
Even if the judge backs Vilma the league appeals and ties up the case for a few months.
Vilma won't be in shape to play anyway.

My hope is that the league knows it had nothing and changes the ruling to a pay for performance ruling and it becomes a salary cap violation.
If this happens then the suspensions could be halved.
Including the coaches suspensions.

ScottyRo · 08-23-2012, 08:53 AM

I'm guessing that the Aug 30 date is part of the TRO issue on the suspension, not the defamation case itself. If that's so, I think the chances are slim that this comes back in Vilma's favor due to a lack of jurisdiction with the court. It is clear the Judge thinks the League overstepped its boundaries or the League is enforcing penalties that are too stiff, but it is also clear she is reaching to find a way to rule that her court should be hearing the case at all.

I'm rooting for her to find a way to rule in favor of jurisdiction, but it is a long-shot at best. Thus, no change to any of the suspensions unless Vilma gets an assist from Lady Luck.

TheOak · 08-23-2012, 09:02 AM

All business as usual... When deadlines are evident, people tend to take a wait and see approach until zooloo hour. Then its scramble to get closure.

Same as with Brees's contract.

Utah_Saint · 08-23-2012, 09:12 AM

I expect the judge to rule in the favor of the NFL. She will state that she wishes there were something she could do and that the investigative, punishment and appeals process the NFL uses is just a facade for a corporate dictator, but in the end, her hands will be tied by the CBA.

I expect the NFL and Mr. Goodell to announce to the world that this is a major victory in the fight to improve player safety. And I expect ESPN to do several stories about the Bounty Hunter and his gang, Jonathan Vilma and the New Orleans Saints defense. (without witnesses or corroborating evidence of course)

But I do respect Vilma for thumbing his nose at the commissioner.

08-22-2012, 08:28 PM	#11
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations Originally Posted by TXGSP Not sure there is much progress towards any settlement - something would have been "LEAKED". It has happened too much during this entire situation. I really don't expect anything prior to the 30th - even if it is nothing more than the court accepting the case. The judge may be waiting to see what the last appeal produces - to see what the legal ramifications are. The judge may still not see a legal way to reverse anything that would not be overturned and not issue a ruling. If anything pushes this to being viewed as a salary cap violation, I think Benson will become outspoken and very harsh of the league office (may not speak publically though). It may give Benson the upperhand to make a move - it is "his" team. Suspensions are not a possible punishment for the FO, coaches, or players and Benson could force the issue to get them removed. I'm still not completely convinced Payton and Vitt will not be on the sidelines (Loomis in his box) for the opener of the season (several things are still outstanding that could go either way to prevent that, but it is still a possibility). I think there is an absolute 0% chance any of the coaches or Loomis will sniff the facility until their suspensions are served. Goodell has stuck his neck out too far to reverse it and cause a major PR suicide.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

08-22-2012, 08:31 PM	#12
thefifthwall 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 121	Originally Posted by Halo Interesting thought BUT I'm pretty sure many feel like that whistle-blower is a coward hiding behind Goodell. Probably a former employee.... The former employee started it and that got a warning from Goodell. But there seems to be a missing link somewhere in 2010-2011. Could they be protecting the whistleblower and the Saints? I just don't see Payton/Loomis going down quietly on what we've seen so far. There's something missing or being kept from the public.
thefifthwall 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 121

08-22-2012, 09:08 PM	#13
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations Given Benson's trip to NY and the silence, what I think could happen: the NFL could "hint" to Burbank (the NFL arbitrator) that this whole bounty thing indeed needs to be ruled a salary cap violation, and in the course of the ruling, "something" is discovered which in the eyes of the Commisioner, under new light, discredits the accusations that Vilma offered the cash; Goddell apologizes for his over-zealousness over player safety, Vilma gets his rep back; suspensions are lifted, the matter is no longer under Goddell's jurisdiction, Goddell gets to save face - ironically still hiding behind the CBA ; the arbitrators who have jurisdiction over salary cap arbitration do what they do: figure out how much money was made, players pay back, maybe a game suspension for all. Players happy, evidence remains a corporate secret. The whole thing with the "evidence", I have a feeling that there is either absolutely nothing, or there is something that proves similar money pools league-wide. In either case, the NFL is screwed if the "evidence" (or lack thereof): lying about having evidence, bad. Evidence showing league-wide practice, bad. I definitely don't think the NFL is trying to protect the Saints in any way, shape, or form. We KNOW there's nothing to the NFL claims. We watch the games. We see who the Saints hit and how they hit them. We saw all those players who they said the Saints targeted have great games against them and leave the field rather healthy. saintsfan1976 likes this.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

08-22-2012, 09:32 PM	#14
thefifthwall 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 121	Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 At this point, having Vilma ready to "play" is least of my concerns. I'm more concerned with what is behind the curtain. This topic has been red hot for weeks and now, all of a sudden, it's crickets... My fear is that the league (and commish) is more mighty than we thought and the league would be vulnerable to whatever has been delayed from our view. Another thing that's been in the back of my head is your organization just got torpedoed by the NFL and you suspend your granddaughter for partying & not taking her job serious enough. Kinda funny timing ?
thefifthwall 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 121

08-23-2012, 12:21 AM	#15
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations All I know for sure is there is a REASON Roger won't show what he says he has. Either it's damning on a much grander scale OR he simply doesn't have anything. I don't think he's got jack. I think we certainly did have a pot from which players were rewarded and fined for their play on the field, and while everybody and their pet hamster knows this is a league-wide practice, we got busted. So Sean and Loomie should do some time. It's their ship. But they shouldn't have to do a YEAR, and they wouldn't be doing a year if Roger hadn't seized on this opportunity to show the world how thoughtful the NFL is toward it's players. Our coach and GM were/are at Roger's mercy and that's just the way it is. The players on the other hand not so much. So what's my expectation? Jon is going to have his day in court, and I fully suspect, as someone else has already said, the league will back off, Vilma will get his apology, the Roger will do his level best to tuck this away when the season starts. I just hope the fans don't allow him to do that. Roger needs to burn for this. I don't 'expect' he will, but I do hope and pray for his demise. The man is wrecking our game.
	C'mon Man...

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08-23-2012, 12:22 AM	#16
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations All I know for sure is there is a REASON Roger won't show what he says he has. Either it's damning on a much grander scale OR he simply doesn't have anything. I don't think he's got jack. I think we certainly did have a pot from which players were rewarded and fined for their play on the field, and while everybody and their pet hamster knows this is a league-wide practice, we got busted. So Sean and Loomie should do some time. It's their ship. But they shouldn't have to do a YEAR, and they wouldn't be doing a year if Roger hadn't seized on this opportunity to show the world how thoughtful the NFL is toward it's players. Our coach and GM were/are at Roger's mercy and that's just the way it is. The players on the other hand not so much. So what's my expectation? Jon is going to have his day in court, and I fully suspect, as someone else has already said, the league will back off, Vilma will get his apology, the Roger will do his level best to tuck this away when the season starts. I just hope the fans don't allow him to do that. Roger needs to burn for this. I don't 'expect' he will, but I do hope and pray for his demise. The man is wrecking our game.
	C'mon Man...

08-23-2012, 08:08 AM	#17
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations I don't see any changes happening in regards to suspensions. Even if the judge backs Vilma the league appeals and ties up the case for a few months. Vilma won't be in shape to play anyway. My hope is that the league knows it had nothing and changes the ruling to a pay for performance ruling and it becomes a salary cap violation. If this happens then the suspensions could be halved. Including the coaches suspensions.

08-23-2012, 08:53 AM	#18
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations I'm guessing that the Aug 30 date is part of the TRO issue on the suspension, not the defamation case itself. If that's so, I think the chances are slim that this comes back in Vilma's favor due to a lack of jurisdiction with the court. It is clear the Judge thinks the League overstepped its boundaries or the League is enforcing penalties that are too stiff, but it is also clear she is reaching to find a way to rule that her court should be hearing the case at all. I'm rooting for her to find a way to rule in favor of jurisdiction, but it is a long-shot at best. Thus, no change to any of the suspensions unless Vilma gets an assist from Lady Luck.

08-23-2012, 09:02 AM	#19
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations All business as usual... When deadlines are evident, people tend to take a wait and see approach until zooloo hour. Then its scramble to get closure. Same as with Brees's contract.

08-23-2012, 09:12 AM	#20
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Vilma vs the NFL - Your Expectations I expect the judge to rule in the favor of the NFL. She will state that she wishes there were something she could do and that the investigative, punishment and appeals process the NFL uses is just a facade for a corporate dictator, but in the end, her hands will be tied by the CBA. I expect the NFL and Mr. Goodell to announce to the world that this is a major victory in the fight to improve player safety. And I expect ESPN to do several stories about the Bounty Hunter and his gang, Jonathan Vilma and the New Orleans Saints defense. (without witnesses or corroborating evidence of course) But I do respect Vilma for thumbing his nose at the commissioner.

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