The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion

Shoe. · 09-13-2012, 09:25 AM

Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance.

Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game

TheOak · 09-13-2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance.

Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game

I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done.

This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him..

2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him

Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks
Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks

That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production.

Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift.

dizzle88 · 09-13-2012, 10:04 AM

Spags need people who can get to the QB in one on one matchups (d.ware, osi and mario Williams type players) but he also needs a safety than can stay with a receiver for a little longer if the rush doesn't get there immediately

I know most people say Pass rush help your coverage, but Jenkins cannot cover anybody to say he was the most highly touted CB coming out of college

FinSaint · 09-14-2012, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done.

This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him..

2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him

Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks
Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks

That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production.

Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift.

In 2010, the Vikes still had the "Williams Wall" as their DTs - Pat and Kevin Williams - Guion was only a rotational player who was also brought in for special packages.

Pat Williams started 16 of 16 games, as did Kevin Williams. Also, last year Allen played next to Kevin Williams, who is considered by many to be one of the best 4-3 DTs in the league. Kevin usually lines up as the RDT.

To me a better example concerning the Vikes front 4 would be how Brian Bobison shined as the other DE last year after Ray Edwards went to Atlanta. Robison had been a depth and ST guy before that without any significant accomplishments, but after he earned the starting position in the preseason - he was really good all through the season and managed to get 8 sacks. More than any numbers could tell, Robison was a really disruptive force on the field and significantly helped Allen get some of his sacks. Robison's emergence as a real threat forced opposing defenses to not only concentrate on Allen with double teams, but also to put some effort into stopping Robison on the other edge, which in turn allowed Allen to have more/better chances to the get to the QB.

It would be nice if the Saints had a player of Allen's or William's quality in their front 4, but players like that are rare, and they cost a lot when they could be had in the free agency.

View Poll Results: What is your view of the 2012 defensive players and scheme?
We have the right pieces for the right Defensive Scheme.	3	10.71%
Our defensive scheme and our defensive personnel do not match.	3	10.71%
The season needs to play out a little more before I decide.	22	78.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

09-13-2012, 09:25 AM	#1
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance. Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game

09-13-2012, 09:38 AM	#2
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Originally Posted by Shoe. Spags needs one guy who is a consistent threat to get to the QB on every down. His well known defenses had a couple of those guys, but, like Danno said, we don't need a top 5 squad to get us to the dance. Hopefully when the details of his scheme have sunk in with the current players we'll see a bit of improvement. Just think what ONE more turnover would've done for us last Sunday. If Robinson comes up with that pick or we force a fumble in the pocket its a whole new game I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done. This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him.. 2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production. Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-13-2012, 10:04 AM	#3
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Spags need people who can get to the QB in one on one matchups (d.ware, osi and mario Williams type players) but he also needs a safety than can stay with a receiver for a little longer if the rush doesn't get there immediately I know most people say Pass rush help your coverage, but Jenkins cannot cover anybody to say he was the most highly touted CB coming out of college

09-14-2012, 06:47 AM	#4
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: The 2012 Saints Defense Poll and discussion Originally Posted by x626xBlack I will add to that. Spags needs one person who can consistently get to the QB and another who can do it when it needs to be done. This will create a double team for the stronger guy and a mismatch for the weaker one right next to him.. 2010 Vikings for example. Jarred Allen with Guion right next to him Guion had 12 tackles and 2 sacks Allen had 45 tackles and 11 sacks in 2011 he has 22 sacks That's 24 sacks coming from that side of the ball. That's production. Not exactly apples to apples but you get my drift. In 2010, the Vikes still had the "Williams Wall" as their DTs - Pat and Kevin Williams - Guion was only a rotational player who was also brought in for special packages. Pat Williams started 16 of 16 games, as did Kevin Williams. Also, last year Allen played next to Kevin Williams, who is considered by many to be one of the best 4-3 DTs in the league. Kevin usually lines up as the RDT. To me a better example concerning the Vikes front 4 would be how Brian Bobison shined as the other DE last year after Ray Edwards went to Atlanta. Robison had been a depth and ST guy before that without any significant accomplishments, but after he earned the starting position in the preseason - he was really good all through the season and managed to get 8 sacks. More than any numbers could tell, Robison was a really disruptive force on the field and significantly helped Allen get some of his sacks. Robison's emergence as a real threat forced opposing defenses to not only concentrate on Allen with double teams, but also to put some effort into stopping Robison on the other edge, which in turn allowed Allen to have more/better chances to the get to the QB. It would be nice if the Saints had a player of Allen's or William's quality in their front 4, but players like that are rare, and they cost a lot when they could be had in the free agency.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno