Spagnolo

The Dude · 09-19-2012, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Ill start with a question. Anyone ever thought of letting Sean Payton go?
First three years under Payton:
2006 = 10-6
2007 = 7-9
2008 = 8-8

Frikken ludicrous thought isn't it right now?

Spagnolo has has two frikken games and people are already discussing letting him go.

Saints fans can be difficult to understand for me some times. They become smitten with a player and want to keep him forever, even after a few seasons prove that the player is not producing and needs to go.

Examples: (I have seen people wish we had these players back recently)
Reggie Bush
Jonathan Vilma
Tracey Porter

Yet when someone takes time to develop... They get 3 qtrs and they gots ta go!

To let a coach go based on his performance this season would be totally asinine. The challenges he is facing with this franchise is probably the most any coach has had to deal with, besides Payton with Katrina. Its hard to walk into an organization surrounded by scandal with a coaching and management staff that are not there. You won't be able to tell anything about the way his scheme and coaching ability are all about this year.

44Champs · 09-19-2012, 04:45 PM

I am one of the ones that has been down on Spags. But after reading the OP's post, I will re-think my stance and try to be more patient. Part of my reason for being unhappy w him is that I didn't want him to begin with - I thought he was a product of the talent he had in StL and NY, and I didn't think we had the right personnel to match up to his D schemes. That being said, I agree that he came in behind the 8 ball and is having to work under a uniquely negative circumstance - our whole team is for that matter. I believe they're all doing their best, but its been frustrating to see them underperform. Who Dat

sharke · 09-20-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by SapperSaint

Call me what you will; but I have chalked this year up as a rebuilding year.

Without Sean, this team is going to suffer. It has suffered. The guys on defense have asmitted that this new defense is complex and it is taking them a little time to learn it. We as fans, need to step out of our "Homer" bodies and realize this has a chance to be a horrible year.

This time in Saintdom, sucks people. Let's just be honest about that. The whole "Us against Them" slogan sounds nice, but without Sean, this team is lost folks.

I think we have the personnel on defense to be good (minus Shanle) and I really think they will be what we were expecting this year; is what they will be next year.

Now before people start bashing me and saying I am giving up on the Saints... No, I do not think we will go winless. However, a SuperBowl is way out of the question. Yes, Sean Payton does mean THAT much to this team. The head of "Our Snake" has been cut off and another one isn't going to just grow back. And if you think this is my first time to state that coaches are important; go search some of my older post when Haslett was fired and we were looking fo a new coach.

Coaches and coaching, MATTERS!

Along those lines, I think once Vitt returns we should see a difference...or at least I'm hoping we will. I think we a team gets down to an interim interim coach, there will be problems.

lumm0x · 09-20-2012, 12:19 PM

Spagnuolo has proven he can build a top 5 defense. The problem is he needs to build it. His scheme is founded upon front 4 pressure. Our old scheme was founded upon front 4 gap control and consuming blockers to allow the blitz to supply pressure. Until we can get the personnel up front that can create pocket pressure this will struggle. A zone defense without pressure is big holes waiting to be exploited. New roles for the d-line. New roles for the linebackers and new roles for the secondary. Guys used to blitzing or playing man coverage are now being asked to cover a piece of territory and ignore all else and it's not evolving well. Over time it will, and new people will be brought in to more effectively fill certain positions.

I feel dumb for thinking our defense would immediately improve. And it's my own fault. It should have been obvious it would be a year or two to see the evolution into where we need to be.

I agree, coaching deficiencies are a problem. But incorrect and/or confused personnel are also a problem.

skymike · 09-20-2012, 12:54 PM

you forgot meachum. i want meachum back

TheOak · 09-20-2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by skymike

you forgot meachum. i want meachum back

You sure? He has had two catches in four games for SD.

Shoe. · 09-20-2012, 01:34 PM

Meacham so far this season: Drops + injuries = oh yeah, THAT'S why we let him go

Fast? Yes.
Worth the money? If Loomis doesn't think so, I'm inclined to believe him

ScottyRo · 09-20-2012, 05:01 PM

Don't forget that Henderson was out in week 2 and missed part of week 1. I'm not his biggest fan, but with Meachem gone and Henderson out there's a ton of experience not playing for us.

The guys behind Henderson just don't have it though i'd like to see more Roby. Morgan can't seem to catch.

But, this thread has been jacked since it is supposed to be about Spags. He needs time and a chance to coach with Payton around.

skymike · 09-20-2012, 05:09 PM

ok... so now do we love Devery?
I always was a fan of him.
You just cant throw right to him uncovered, (except NE game).... he has
to be twisting around, upside down reaching behind his back with 2 safeties
hitting his head. Then he catches it!

Joker · 09-20-2012, 09:18 PM

When did Spud build a great defense as I read in another post, spud was a assistant coach under the late great Jim Johnson's in Phili. He left there in 2007 to become the Giants defensive coordinator and didn't build anything the pieces were already there, arguably the best front four in the NFL. Left in 2009 to become the head coach at St. louis and we all know how that turned out. The jury IMO is still out on Spuds.
Can he adapt his defense that was learned from Jim Johnson to the players he has has yet to be seen, just basing my opinion on what I've seen so far and it hasn't been very good. Will it improve, I certainly hope so!!!!
I know I've been critical but as the poster say's, "Do Your Job", has he done his? He took the job and the paycheck now it's time for him to teach the players his scheme. Everyone on this forum in everyday life when they go to work their expected to do a job if they can't do the job mor than likely they'll find someone else to replace you, Spud is no different. He new the situation when he took the job, now he needs to get these guys playing good football. Sorry but that just life.

09-19-2012, 04:13 PM	#11
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: Spagnolo Originally Posted by x626xBlack Ill start with a question. Anyone ever thought of letting Sean Payton go? First three years under Payton: 2006 = 10-6 2007 = 7-9 2008 = 8-8 Frikken ludicrous thought isn't it right now? Spagnolo has has two frikken games and people are already discussing letting him go. Saints fans can be difficult to understand for me some times. They become smitten with a player and want to keep him forever, even after a few seasons prove that the player is not producing and needs to go. Examples: (I have seen people wish we had these players back recently) Reggie Bush Jonathan Vilma Tracey Porter Yet when someone takes time to develop... They get 3 qtrs and they gots ta go! To let a coach go based on his performance this season would be totally asinine. The challenges he is facing with this franchise is probably the most any coach has had to deal with, besides Payton with Katrina. Its hard to walk into an organization surrounded by scandal with a coaching and management staff that are not there. You won't be able to tell anything about the way his scheme and coaching ability are all about this year.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

09-19-2012, 04:45 PM	#12
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	I am one of the ones that has been down on Spags. But after reading the OP's post, I will re-think my stance and try to be more patient. Part of my reason for being unhappy w him is that I didn't want him to begin with - I thought he was a product of the talent he had in StL and NY, and I didn't think we had the right personnel to match up to his D schemes. That being said, I agree that he came in behind the 8 ball and is having to work under a uniquely negative circumstance - our whole team is for that matter. I believe they're all doing their best, but its been frustrating to see them underperform. Who Dat
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

09-20-2012, 11:56 AM	#13
sharke evil decepticon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 583	Re: Spagnolo Originally Posted by SapperSaint Call me what you will; but I have chalked this year up as a rebuilding year. Without Sean, this team is going to suffer. It has suffered. The guys on defense have asmitted that this new defense is complex and it is taking them a little time to learn it. We as fans, need to step out of our "Homer" bodies and realize this has a chance to be a horrible year. This time in Saintdom, sucks people. Let's just be honest about that. The whole "Us against Them" slogan sounds nice, but without Sean, this team is lost folks. I think we have the personnel on defense to be good (minus Shanle) and I really think they will be what we were expecting this year; is what they will be next year. Now before people start bashing me and saying I am giving up on the Saints... No, I do not think we will go winless. However, a SuperBowl is way out of the question. Yes, Sean Payton does mean THAT much to this team. The head of "Our Snake" has been cut off and another one isn't going to just grow back. And if you think this is my first time to state that coaches are important; go search some of my older post when Haslett was fired and we were looking fo a new coach. Coaches and coaching, MATTERS! Along those lines, I think once Vitt returns we should see a difference...or at least I'm hoping we will. I think we a team gets down to an interim interim coach, there will be problems. SapperSaint likes this.

09-20-2012, 12:19 PM	#14
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: Spagnolo Spagnuolo has proven he can build a top 5 defense. The problem is he needs to build it. His scheme is founded upon front 4 pressure. Our old scheme was founded upon front 4 gap control and consuming blockers to allow the blitz to supply pressure. Until we can get the personnel up front that can create pocket pressure this will struggle. A zone defense without pressure is big holes waiting to be exploited. New roles for the d-line. New roles for the linebackers and new roles for the secondary. Guys used to blitzing or playing man coverage are now being asked to cover a piece of territory and ignore all else and it's not evolving well. Over time it will, and new people will be brought in to more effectively fill certain positions. I feel dumb for thinking our defense would immediately improve. And it's my own fault. It should have been obvious it would be a year or two to see the evolution into where we need to be. I agree, coaching deficiencies are a problem. But incorrect and/or confused personnel are also a problem.

09-20-2012, 12:54 PM	#15
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Re: Spagnolo you forgot meachum. i want meachum back

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09-20-2012, 01:04 PM	#16
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Spagnolo Originally Posted by skymike you forgot meachum. i want meachum back You sure? He has had two catches in four games for SD. skymike likes this.

09-20-2012, 01:34 PM	#17
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Spagnolo Meacham so far this season: Drops + injuries = oh yeah, THAT'S why we let him go Fast? Yes. Worth the money? If Loomis doesn't think so, I'm inclined to believe him ScottyRo, skymike and TheOak like this.

09-20-2012, 05:01 PM	#18
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Spagnolo Don't forget that Henderson was out in week 2 and missed part of week 1. I'm not his biggest fan, but with Meachem gone and Henderson out there's a ton of experience not playing for us. The guys behind Henderson just don't have it though i'd like to see more Roby. Morgan can't seem to catch. But, this thread has been jacked since it is supposed to be about Spags. He needs time and a chance to coach with Payton around.

09-20-2012, 05:09 PM	#19
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Re: Spagnolo ok... so now do we love Devery? I always was a fan of him. You just cant throw right to him uncovered, (except NE game).... he has to be twisting around, upside down reaching behind his back with 2 safeties hitting his head. Then he catches it! ScottyRo likes this.

09-20-2012, 09:18 PM	#20
Joker Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lafayette Posts: 408 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Spagnolo When did Spud build a great defense as I read in another post, spud was a assistant coach under the late great Jim Johnson's in Phili. He left there in 2007 to become the Giants defensive coordinator and didn't build anything the pieces were already there, arguably the best front four in the NFL. Left in 2009 to become the head coach at St. louis and we all know how that turned out. The jury IMO is still out on Spuds. Can he adapt his defense that was learned from Jim Johnson to the players he has has yet to be seen, just basing my opinion on what I've seen so far and it hasn't been very good. Will it improve, I certainly hope so!!!! I know I've been critical but as the poster say's, "Do Your Job", has he done his? He took the job and the paycheck now it's time for him to teach the players his scheme. Everyone on this forum in everyday life when they go to work their expected to do a job if they can't do the job mor than likely they'll find someone else to replace you, Spud is no different. He new the situation when he took the job, now he needs to get these guys playing good football. Sorry but that just life.

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