Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof )

Mardigras9 · 09-28-2012, 09:55 AM

Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)?

Danno · 09-28-2012, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mardigras9

Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)?

Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties.

It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before.

I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent.

TheOak · 09-28-2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties.

It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before.

I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent.

Nothing like a good RCA (root cause analysis)..

Why are they not dropping back far enough? No confidence that the line can stop the run? Being told to stay closer to the line or scrimmage?

In Shanle's case its just where he is when the ball is snapped.... He does not "move good".

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before.

THIS.

I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense.

Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display.

These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men.

I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties

Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here

TheOak · 09-28-2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

THIS.

I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense.

Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display.

These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men.

I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties

Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here

BINGO! Thats the same thing I say when I hear "dome team", or "Turf team"... I know they have played outdoors on grass as some point... and probably more than three times.

Speedy Ron · 09-28-2012, 12:35 PM

our defense is pathetic...not much more to say about it. we can scratch our heads all day long. at the end of the day...they are not good, havent been for years with 3 different coordinators. not the coordinator, its the poo players.

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Speedy Ron

our defense is pathetic...not much more to say about it. we can scratch our heads all day long. at the end of the day...they are not good, havent been for years with 3 different coordinators. not the coordinator, its the poo players.

Of the players that Spags drafted this year, two are starting/in the active rotation

I'll take that as a good sign and hope the fishing is even better next year

alexonfyre · 09-28-2012, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by SanDiego49er

It's all the coaches and players you have suspended. You could also upgrade the defense some (even the starting D). You got plenty of offense. So you get a high 1st for 2013 and a high 2nd for 2013 too. Use them both on Defense. You got plenty enough on offense. You don't need help there.

This is true, but our D has been our biggest problem since '07. Offense wins in the regular season, but defense wins in the playoffs. The reason we lose all those road playoff games is that the D can't shut it down and carry us when the going gets rough. The root of the problem is that ~65% of our salary cap is tied up in offensive players, so the only way we will get a good defense is by drafting great players and keeping them on their cheap rookie contracts for a few years, but our scouting department has been disappointing in finding college talent for the defense. I think if we can hire some really good scouts (and maybe Spags brought some with him) then we could make some strides, but until we find a way to get better talent out of the draft, I just don't know.

foreverfan · 09-28-2012, 01:00 PM

So our defense stinks?

alexonfyre · 09-28-2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

THIS.

I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense.

Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display.

These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men.

I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties

Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here

Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense.

09-28-2012, 09:55 AM	#21
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)?

09-28-2012, 10:00 AM	#22
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,648	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Mardigras9 Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)? Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties. It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before. I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent.

09-28-2012, 11:26 AM	#23
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Danno Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties. It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before. I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent. Nothing like a good RCA (root cause analysis).. Why are they not dropping back far enough? No confidence that the line can stop the run? Being told to stay closer to the line or scrimmage? In Shanle's case its just where he is when the ball is snapped.... He does not "move good".

09-28-2012, 11:39 AM	#24
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Danno But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before. THIS. I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense. Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display. These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men. I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here mutineer10 likes this.

09-28-2012, 11:42 AM	#25
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Shoe. THIS. I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense. Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display. These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men. I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here BINGO! Thats the same thing I say when I hear "dome team", or "Turf team"... I know they have played outdoors on grass as some point... and probably more than three times. mutineer10 likes this.

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09-28-2012, 12:35 PM	#26
Speedy Ron I'm an A hole Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Metry Posts: 1,173	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) our defense is pathetic...not much more to say about it. we can scratch our heads all day long. at the end of the day...they are not good, havent been for years with 3 different coordinators. not the coordinator, its the poo players.

09-28-2012, 12:37 PM	#27
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Speedy Ron our defense is pathetic...not much more to say about it. we can scratch our heads all day long. at the end of the day...they are not good, havent been for years with 3 different coordinators. not the coordinator, its the poo players. Of the players that Spags drafted this year, two are starting/in the active rotation I'll take that as a good sign and hope the fishing is even better next year

09-28-2012, 12:53 PM	#28
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by SanDiego49er It's all the coaches and players you have suspended. You could also upgrade the defense some (even the starting D). You got plenty of offense. So you get a high 1st for 2013 and a high 2nd for 2013 too. Use them both on Defense. You got plenty enough on offense. You don't need help there. This is true, but our D has been our biggest problem since '07. Offense wins in the regular season, but defense wins in the playoffs. The reason we lose all those road playoff games is that the D can't shut it down and carry us when the going gets rough. The root of the problem is that ~65% of our salary cap is tied up in offensive players, so the only way we will get a good defense is by drafting great players and keeping them on their cheap rookie contracts for a few years, but our scouting department has been disappointing in finding college talent for the defense. I think if we can hire some really good scouts (and maybe Spags brought some with him) then we could make some strides, but until we find a way to get better talent out of the draft, I just don't know. FinSaint likes this.

09-28-2012, 01:00 PM	#29
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) So our defense stinks? mutineer10 likes this.

09-28-2012, 01:03 PM	#30
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Shoe. THIS. I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense. Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display. These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men. I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense.

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