Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof )

Mardigras9 · 09-28-2012, 09:55 AM

Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)?

Danno · 09-28-2012, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mardigras9

Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)?

Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties.

It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before.

I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent.

TheOak · 09-28-2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties.

It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before.

I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent.

Nothing like a good RCA (root cause analysis)..

Why are they not dropping back far enough? No confidence that the line can stop the run? Being told to stay closer to the line or scrimmage?

In Shanle's case its just where he is when the ball is snapped.... He does not "move good".

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before.

THIS.

I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense.

Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display.

These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men.

I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties

Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here

TheOak · 09-28-2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

THIS.

I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense.

Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display.

These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men.

I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties

Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here

BINGO! Thats the same thing I say when I hear "dome team", or "Turf team"... I know they have played outdoors on grass as some point... and probably more than three times.

alexonfyre · 09-28-2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

THIS.

I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense.

Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display.

These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men.

I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties

Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here

Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense.

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by alexonfyre

Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense.

Yikes.

I think I'm gonna go throw up now...

Danno · 09-28-2012, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by alexonfyre

Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense.

And he probably is. Thats why he was voted defensive MVP by our own players.

Shoe. · 09-28-2012, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

And he probably is. Thats why he was voted defensive MVP by our own players.

So this dude is smart, he's a defensive MVP on the team, and a perennial starter for three different defensive coordinators.

So why all the Shanle hate all the time? And not necessarily from you Danno, but I feel like I see a lot of it around

If the dude is so smart and so capable, there should be no reason for people to throw all the hate his direction. I'm confused.

FinSaint · 09-28-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

So this dude is smart, he's a defensive MVP on the team, and a perennial starter for three different defensive coordinators.

So why all the Shanle hate all the time? And not necessarily from you Danno, but I feel like I see a lot of it around

If the dude is so smart and so capable, there should be no reason for people to throw all the hate his direction. I'm confused.

No one said that he was smart... only that he was the smartest.

To me, there's a huge difference!

Oh, and the main reason why I complain about Shanle being a starter is that he is sooooo slow compared to the players he is supposed to be tackling that it makes it very painful to watch him play, and he doesn't have the natural positional instincts to cover his lack of speed and movement skills in general.

09-28-2012, 09:55 AM	#1
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)?

09-28-2012, 10:00 AM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Mardigras9 Been saying the LB's have been horribly out of position all year. Is it the scheme or the lack of talent (except Shanle, I already know that answer)? Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties. It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before. I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent.

09-28-2012, 11:26 AM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Danno Mostly scheme I'd guess. I've read some skilled analysts comment that our LB's aren't dropping back far enough in coverage and opposing QB's are killing us with the short crossing throws just over the LB's and in front of our safeties. It may have something to do with talent, but for the last 3 years we ran mostly man. Zone with 2 high safeties is relatively new to a lot of our players. But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before. I'd guess 60% scheme, 40% talent. Nothing like a good RCA (root cause analysis).. Why are they not dropping back far enough? No confidence that the line can stop the run? Being told to stay closer to the line or scrimmage? In Shanle's case its just where he is when the ball is snapped.... He does not "move good".

09-28-2012, 11:39 AM	#4
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Danno But its not like they've never had to play freaking zone before. THIS. I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense. Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display. These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men. I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here mutineer10 likes this.

09-28-2012, 11:42 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Shoe. THIS. I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense. Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display. These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men. I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here BINGO! Thats the same thing I say when I hear "dome team", or "Turf team"... I know they have played outdoors on grass as some point... and probably more than three times. mutineer10 likes this.

09-28-2012, 01:03 PM	#6
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Shoe. THIS. I'm amazed when I hear that the defense "needs time to adjust to the new scheme," and its something like playing zone defense. Have they never run a zone d before? From Pop Warner, to high school, college, and then pre-season I am amazed at the learning curve many of these gents display. These men are supposed to be professional, masters of their craft, literally the most capable people on the planet, and they can't figure out how to execute a)clean tackles and b)coverage responsibilities in a zone scheme. (and please don't respond with "they're not hired to be smart, etc") because lots of these guys are very intelligent men. I mean c'mon, there's only so many ways to put men in motion before the snap to disguise/reveal coverage duties Someone please help me out if I'm missing something here Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense.

09-28-2012, 01:26 PM	#7
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by alexonfyre Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense. Yikes. I think I'm gonna go throw up now...

09-28-2012, 01:59 PM	#8
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by alexonfyre Coaches and players have both said that Scott Shanle is the smartest man on our defense. And he probably is. Thats why he was voted defensive MVP by our own players.

09-28-2012, 03:19 PM	#9
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Danno And he probably is. Thats why he was voted defensive MVP by our own players. So this dude is smart, he's a defensive MVP on the team, and a perennial starter for three different defensive coordinators. So why all the Shanle hate all the time? And not necessarily from you Danno, but I feel like I see a lot of it around If the dude is so smart and so capable, there should be no reason for people to throw all the hate his direction. I'm confused.

09-28-2012, 03:31 PM	#10
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Re: Whats wrong with our Defense ( Visual Proof ) Originally Posted by Shoe. So this dude is smart, he's a defensive MVP on the team, and a perennial starter for three different defensive coordinators. So why all the Shanle hate all the time? And not necessarily from you Danno, but I feel like I see a lot of it around If the dude is so smart and so capable, there should be no reason for people to throw all the hate his direction. I'm confused. No one said that he was smart... only that he was the smartest. To me, there's a huge difference! Oh, and the main reason why I complain about Shanle being a starter is that he is sooooo slow compared to the players he is supposed to be tackling that it makes it very painful to watch him play, and he doesn't have the natural positional instincts to cover his lack of speed and movement skills in general. bobdog86 likes this.

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