NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED

CharityMike · 10-10-2012, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

I don't think people are going to look past the fact that I'm a Falcons fan when I post. I'm sure they all think I'm some Georgia hillbilly that's laughing maniacally and twiddling my fingers together as the whole thing unfolds, simply because it's happening to the Saints. My views wouldn't be any different if it was us, you guys, the Steelers, the Cardinals, etc.

Actually, I didn't realize you were a Falcon fan until way into the debate. BUT now that I know, it explains a lot as to why anyone would come here on our site and try to tell us we don't know what we are talking about.

I have no problem talking football with anyone, I don't care who there team is. You may not be a hillbilly but obviously your a few french fry's short of a happy meal if you think coming on here arguing the side of the kommisar is going to win anyone over.

Radical · 10-10-2012, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

err... how can you separate illegal hits and hitting defenseless players when hitting a defenseless player is an illegal hit? If a tree falls in the forest...

BTW, how do you KNOW there was no money, or any reward, going Robinson's way?

Separate helmet-to-helmet, launching, etc. with hitting a defenseless receiver. As I said before, defenseless receiver is a judgement call that I think is impossible to regulate. Contrary to what some of you guys seem to think, I don't agree with Goodell on everything.

Is your last question serious? Is this whole discussion just going to you deflecting away from the point and trying to say "well everyone else does it." If they do, there hasn't been any proof of it yet.

Radical · 10-10-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

Maybe you need to read this article!

Falcons' Robinson fined $40k for illegal hit on Eagles' Maclin - NFL.com

Again, the defenseless receiver rule is impossible to coach for. What was Robinson supposed to do? I guess he could have let him take a few steps up field before making contact... but I don't think that would fly with anyone.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Ok, let me get this straight:
Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, is good.
Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, but getting token reward if the other gets hurt, is intent to injure. I got it. Fantastic.

And yes, Mike Smith, when asked specifically about the cleary illegal hits Dunta Robinson landed on defenseless players with the intent to injure them (why else would you land an illegal hit on a defenseless player) he responded "that is how we teach them". He is clearly stating he coaches players to land illegal hits on defenseless players with the intent to injure them.

Yes, because offering payment for injuring other players is illegal? It's funny though your last paragraph. You're practically twisting yourself into a pretzel in an attempt to deflect here.

jnormand · 10-10-2012, 09:07 PM

@Radical

Ok...So I can understand...the Saints were "injuring" players with "illegal hits" and taking guys out left and right. All the while smiling and cheering at the fact that they just got paid a grand or two (which is like most of us betting a soda or 5 bucks in a friendly wager IMHO).

But the Saints were not taking guys out of the game. They weren't illegally hitting anyone. At least far far less than most teams through the "seasons in question".

I think thats where you aren't going to get anyone here to jump on board. A clean hit is a clean hit. You don't think NFL players try to knock the hell out of everyone they lay a hit on? Hell yes they do!

The money (if indeed there was any) was more like a pat on the back. Not a ****ing bounty on a guy to take him out by any means possible.

SOOO...if a legal hit takes a guy out, its fine.

But if the guy legally hits a guy, takes him out for a play or two and he gets some short change for a job well done, it's a bounty. Right?

Tobias-Reiper · 10-10-2012, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

Separate helmet-to-helmet, launching, etc. with hitting a defenseless receiver. As I said before, defenseless receiver is a judgement call that I think is impossible to regulate. Contrary to what some of you guys seem to think, I don't agree with Goodell on everything.

Is your last question serious? Is this whole discussion just going to you deflecting away from the point and trying to say "well everyone else does it." If they do, there hasn't been any proof of it yet.

Why this insistence to "separate" anything? An illegal hit is an illegal hit. Lowering your head and launching at the other player's head is an illegal hit. Certain hits are made illegal because of the high probability of injury to the player who gets hit. When you consciously lower your head and launch at a defenseless player's head with the crown of your helmet like the video clearly shows Dunta Robinson did, he's clearly trying to injure the other player. No if, ands, or buts about it. Flagged as it happened, heavily fined afterwards. Why is it so hard to see?

Oh, and I am dead serious about the last question. Don't take it from me, take it from ex-players like Jason Taylor, who stated all NFL teams have money pools.

Radical · 10-10-2012, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Why this insistence to "separate" anything? An illegal hit is an illegal hit. Lowering your head and launching at the other player's head is an illegal hit. Certain hits are made illegal because of the high probability of injury to the player who gets hit. When you consciously lower your head and launch at a defenseless player's head with the crown of your helmet like the video clearly shows Dunta Robinson did, he's clearly trying to injure the other player. No if, ands, or buts about it. Flagged as it happened, heavily fined afterwards. Why is it so hard to see?

Oh, and I am dead serious about the last question. Don't take it from me, take it from ex-players like Jason Taylor, who stated all NFL teams have money pools.

Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it.

Tobias-Reiper · 10-10-2012, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it.

he never launched? Come on, dude. The video is posted a few posts above.

I am not denying, twisting, distorting anything, but you keep going on with the pay-to-injure comments, and the "if there's money involved, then there's intent to injure" thing, which is not correct. As I stated posts ago, whether there is a token reward or not, football players are going to hit other football players as hard as they can, and this will result in injuries, whether there is an intent to injure or not; that is the nature of the game. There is no hitting harder because you can get a token reward afterwards. A legal hit is not made an illegal hit because you can get a token reward afterwards.

On the other hand, when a player keeps on delivering vicious illegal hits which are flagged on the spot then heavily fined, with the HC stating that's what he teaches, one can easily argue actual intent to injure is present.

As for the money pools, they have been around football since forever. Known fact, corroborated by a large number of high-profile ex-players (current players are not going to open their mouths, obviously), just about all teams in the NFL have one/had one. Yes, they are against the rules, and no one around here is denying the money pool existed, or would have any issue with it being punished, had they been punished for what they are, money pools, and not some nefarious hitman contract fund like Goodell made it out to be.

saintfan · 10-10-2012, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

Dunta never launched...

Alright everybody. It's time to stop. You can lead a horse to water, etc, etc. The one thing on display here is video evidence - clear as a bell video evidence - and this guy says it never happened.

LOL

This dude either doesn't get it or can't. Either way it's a waste of time.

Utah_Saint · 10-10-2012, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Radical

Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it.

Lemme see if I've got this straight...

You'll twist yourself into a knot trying to deny and distort the illegal cheap shots from Dunta even when it's in a video that we call all see,
but...

But you want us to believe that if the league accused your players of trying to injure players when there was no proof or even injuries, you'd just calmly accept that.

Yeah, I believe that.

Radical · 10-10-2012, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Alright everybody. It's time to stop. You can lead a horse to water, etc, etc. The one thing on display here is video evidence - clear as a bell video evidence - and this guy says it never happened.

LOL

This dude either doesn't get it or can't. Either way it's a waste of time.

Even Chris Collinsworth said in the video that he wasn't launching. Launching is when a player leaves both of his feet, and Dunta never did that. I suggest reading up on the rules before you spout off and make yourself look ignorant.

10-10-2012, 08:40 PM	#101
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by Radical I don't think people are going to look past the fact that I'm a Falcons fan when I post. I'm sure they all think I'm some Georgia hillbilly that's laughing maniacally and twiddling my fingers together as the whole thing unfolds, simply because it's happening to the Saints. My views wouldn't be any different if it was us, you guys, the Steelers, the Cardinals, etc. Actually, I didn't realize you were a Falcon fan until way into the debate. BUT now that I know, it explains a lot as to why anyone would come here on our site and try to tell us we don't know what we are talking about. I have no problem talking football with anyone, I don't care who there team is. You may not be a hillbilly but obviously your a few french fry's short of a happy meal if you think coming on here arguing the side of the kommisar is going to win anyone over.

10-10-2012, 08:50 PM	#102
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper err... how can you separate illegal hits and hitting defenseless players when hitting a defenseless player is an illegal hit? If a tree falls in the forest... BTW, how do you KNOW there was no money, or any reward, going Robinson's way? Separate helmet-to-helmet, launching, etc. with hitting a defenseless receiver. As I said before, defenseless receiver is a judgement call that I think is impossible to regulate. Contrary to what some of you guys seem to think, I don't agree with Goodell on everything. Is your last question serious? Is this whole discussion just going to you deflecting away from the point and trying to say "well everyone else does it." If they do, there hasn't been any proof of it yet.
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148

10-10-2012, 09:04 PM	#103
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| Maybe you need to read this article! Falcons' Robinson fined $40k for illegal hit on Eagles' Maclin - NFL.com Again, the defenseless receiver rule is impossible to coach for. What was Robinson supposed to do? I guess he could have let him take a few steps up field before making contact... but I don't think that would fly with anyone. Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Ok, let me get this straight: Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, is good. Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, but getting token reward if the other gets hurt, is intent to injure. I got it. Fantastic. And yes, Mike Smith, when asked specifically about the cleary illegal hits Dunta Robinson landed on defenseless players with the intent to injure them (why else would you land an illegal hit on a defenseless player) he responded "that is how we teach them". He is clearly stating he coaches players to land illegal hits on defenseless players with the intent to injure them. Yes, because offering payment for injuring other players is illegal? It's funny though your last paragraph. You're practically twisting yourself into a pretzel in an attempt to deflect here.
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148

10-10-2012, 09:07 PM	#104
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,662	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED @Radical Ok...So I can understand...the Saints were "injuring" players with "illegal hits" and taking guys out left and right. All the while smiling and cheering at the fact that they just got paid a grand or two (which is like most of us betting a soda or 5 bucks in a friendly wager IMHO). But the Saints were not taking guys out of the game. They weren't illegally hitting anyone. At least far far less than most teams through the "seasons in question". I think thats where you aren't going to get anyone here to jump on board. A clean hit is a clean hit. You don't think NFL players try to knock the hell out of everyone they lay a hit on? Hell yes they do! The money (if indeed there was any) was more like a pat on the back. Not a ****ing bounty on a guy to take him out by any means possible. SOOO...if a legal hit takes a guy out, its fine. But if the guy legally hits a guy, takes him out for a play or two and he gets some short change for a job well done, it's a bounty. Right?

10-10-2012, 09:15 PM	#105
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by Radical Separate helmet-to-helmet, launching, etc. with hitting a defenseless receiver. As I said before, defenseless receiver is a judgement call that I think is impossible to regulate. Contrary to what some of you guys seem to think, I don't agree with Goodell on everything. Is your last question serious? Is this whole discussion just going to you deflecting away from the point and trying to say "well everyone else does it." If they do, there hasn't been any proof of it yet. Why this insistence to "separate" anything? An illegal hit is an illegal hit. Lowering your head and launching at the other player's head is an illegal hit. Certain hits are made illegal because of the high probability of injury to the player who gets hit. When you consciously lower your head and launch at a defenseless player's head with the crown of your helmet like the video clearly shows Dunta Robinson did, he's clearly trying to injure the other player. No if, ands, or buts about it. Flagged as it happened, heavily fined afterwards. Why is it so hard to see? Oh, and I am dead serious about the last question. Don't take it from me, take it from ex-players like Jason Taylor, who stated all NFL teams have money pools.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

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10-10-2012, 09:20 PM	#106
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Why this insistence to "separate" anything? An illegal hit is an illegal hit. Lowering your head and launching at the other player's head is an illegal hit. Certain hits are made illegal because of the high probability of injury to the player who gets hit. When you consciously lower your head and launch at a defenseless player's head with the crown of your helmet like the video clearly shows Dunta Robinson did, he's clearly trying to injure the other player. No if, ands, or buts about it. Flagged as it happened, heavily fined afterwards. Why is it so hard to see? Oh, and I am dead serious about the last question. Don't take it from me, take it from ex-players like Jason Taylor, who stated all NFL teams have money pools. Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it.
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148

10-10-2012, 09:51 PM	#107
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by Radical Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it. he never launched? Come on, dude. The video is posted a few posts above. I am not denying, twisting, distorting anything, but you keep going on with the pay-to-injure comments, and the "if there's money involved, then there's intent to injure" thing, which is not correct. As I stated posts ago, whether there is a token reward or not, football players are going to hit other football players as hard as they can, and this will result in injuries, whether there is an intent to injure or not; that is the nature of the game. There is no hitting harder because you can get a token reward afterwards. A legal hit is not made an illegal hit because you can get a token reward afterwards. On the other hand, when a player keeps on delivering vicious illegal hits which are flagged on the spot then heavily fined, with the HC stating that's what he teaches, one can easily argue actual intent to injure is present. As for the money pools, they have been around football since forever. Known fact, corroborated by a large number of high-profile ex-players (current players are not going to open their mouths, obviously), just about all teams in the NFL have one/had one. Yes, they are against the rules, and no one around here is denying the money pool existed, or would have any issue with it being punished, had they been punished for what they are, money pools, and not some nefarious hitman contract fund like Goodell made it out to be.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

10-10-2012, 10:13 PM	#108
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by Radical Dunta never launched... Alright everybody. It's time to stop. You can lead a horse to water, etc, etc. The one thing on display here is video evidence - clear as a bell video evidence - and this guy says it never happened. LOL This dude either doesn't get it or can't. Either way it's a waste of time.

10-10-2012, 11:03 PM	#109
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by Radical Dunta never launched, and the helmet to helmet contact was only made on Maclin was do to him turning. Nice try. If the NFL finds the Falcons run a pay for injury program like the Saints then, then they'll get their punishment and I'm not going to twist myself into a knot trying to deflect, deny, and distort it. Lemme see if I've got this straight... You'll twist yourself into a knot trying to deny and distort the illegal cheap shots from Dunta even when it's in a video that we call all see, but... But you want us to believe that if the league accused your players of trying to injure players when there was no proof or even injuries, you'd just calmly accept that. Yeah, I believe that.

10-10-2012, 11:22 PM	#110
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148	Re: NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED Originally Posted by saintfan Alright everybody. It's time to stop. You can lead a horse to water, etc, etc. The one thing on display here is video evidence - clear as a bell video evidence - and this guy says it never happened. LOL This dude either doesn't get it or can't. Either way it's a waste of time. Even Chris Collinsworth said in the video that he wasn't launching. Launching is when a player leaves both of his feet, and Dunta never did that. I suggest reading up on the rules before you spout off and make yourself look ignorant.
Radical Falcons Fan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 148

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NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

NFL re-issues bounty disciplineUPDATED