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NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by CharityMike Wow..I am going to say this the best way I can trying not to sound like I am insulting you. You can't see the difference between trying to intentionally hurt someone and someone getting hurt from ...

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:55 PM   #1
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Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

Originally Posted by CharityMike View Post
Wow..I am going to say this the best way I can trying not to sound like I am insulting you.

You can't see the difference between trying to intentionally hurt someone and someone getting hurt from a legal play/hit? You are the reason Godell still has fans.

When you can prove the intent, let me know.
There's no way to prove intent, but if you're paying for injuries, which is what paying for cart-offs is, then you're encouraging it.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
You need to stay away from analogies, and watch 12 Angry Men.

... anyway...

Football players hit each other as hard as they can. The rules of the game allow for this. When you hit someone as hard as you can, there is a chance the other guy is going to get hurt in some way: plain shaken from the impact, or get his bell rung, get the wind knocked out of him, bruise a muscle or a bone, to breaking a bone, or snapping a tendon, etc etc etc. This occurs every week in the NFL. On every game. That there may be an extra $1,000 dlls for someone who makes 2 mil a year and during the course of legal play knocked the wind out of someone else, or rang someone else's bell, that doesn't make it that the player is out to purposely maim someone with the intention to receive what amounts to $10 for you and me.
That's the whole point of it. The Saints encouraged players to cause injury via payment, hence the discipline.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Paying to injure as Goodell initially defined it was that the Saints intentionally set out to injure players.

If you would take the time to pull your head out of your ass you would realize that the definition of a "cartoff" by everyone involved is a player that missed a play due to a hard hit. Paying to injure means trying to injure a player, not trying to hurt a player. Every time a defensive player hits the field his job is to HURT the opponent. If the HURT he puts on that opponent takes him out of the game for a play or more, so much the better. I know you are much smarter than you put on here and know the difference.
Sounds like ticky-tacky word games. What the meaning of the word is is and what not. I'd like to see the source on the second meaning of cart-offs, because like I said on AFT, I haven't really followed this whole thing. Bountygate simply doesn't interest me that much. The outcome doesn't matter to me, and I'm not going to try to be obtuse simply because it's the Saints involved in the matter.

Regardless, if you're paying players to knock players out of the game, you're paying them to injure other players. The intent is established right there.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
So Radical, what is your reply to this? You can't have one unless you continue with your delusional belief that the Saints are horrible monsters that deserve ultimate admonition. You chose to come over here to our site and continue the unfounded and illogical rhetoric that you have spewed on your own site about this farce. Now it is your turn to face the music. I have had the truth behind my defense, but now you have to defend your stand with nothing of substance.

Have at it big man.

I've responded to as much as I'm going to bother responding to at the moment. You're sounding a bit too much like Beef right now in my opinion(half the cursing of course). I jumped over here just on a whim to see what was up over here, but you're kinda coming across like I've treated you like garbage and you brought me over here to "stand trial," as if you couldn't say what you wanted to say there without real reprisal. If anything I thought I was closer to cordial than some vindictive jerk spouting hateful rhetoric like you're implying I was.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:21 PM   #2
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Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

Originally Posted by Radical View Post
There's no way to prove intent, but if you're paying for injuries, which is what paying for cart-offs is, then you're encouraging it.
That's the whole point of it. The Saints encouraged players to cause injury via payment, hence the discipline.
I guess you don't have an actual response, other than regurgitate Goodell's position. Fine.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:49 PM   #3
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Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
I guess you don't have an actual response, other than regurgitate Goodell's position. Fine.
What's there to argue? If the guy who was in charge of it all is admitting to it, what more needs to be said. So far, I've been given nothing but semantics games. You got a guy telling his players to go take out another player's ACL, people paying money for knocking players out of the game, etc.

The insanity of some of the stuff I've read from Saints fans since the start sounds about like the crap I was reading when the dog fighting case broke with Vick. It was all a big conspiracy theory, etc.

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:47 AM   #4
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Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

Originally Posted by Radical View Post
What's there to argue? If the guy who was in charge of it all is admitting to it, what more needs to be said. So far, I've been given nothing but semantics games. You got a guy telling his players to go take out another player's ACL, people paying money for knocking players out of the game, etc.

The insanity of some of the stuff I've read from Saints fans since the start sounds about like the crap I was reading when the dog fighting case broke with Vick. It was all a big conspiracy theory, etc.
Answer me this:

Do you think Mike Nolan coaches his defense to hit offensive players as hard as they can? Or do you think he tells them "don't hit them as hard as you can because you may hurt someone"?


And about the Williams speech: a lot has been made about that speech, and how Williams instructed his players to tear Michael Crabtree's ACL, kill Frank Gore's head and the body will die, etc etc etc Ok.. well, Crabtree's ACL was fine and dandy after the game. So was Frank Gore's head. If the Saints actually wanted to tear Crabtree's ACL, they could've. Look how easily the Jets hurt Reggie and Cushing in back to back games, and they even said they were going to do it (dotting players, putting hot sauce on players).

Off course, then some things come out, like how the Chiefs have "kill the head and the body will die" painted on a wall. The very NFLN had a segment about the Chiefs that brought this to light. They also ran a promo for their Sounds of the Game show where a 49er coach is telling his linemen "knock the piss out of him" (hmm wonder what that means)... I remember Mike Tomlin screaming at his defense "tear his f*ing head off" during a game I was watching (a very specific body part too)... and it makes you wonder, what do other teams say during their defensive meetings? Wouldn't it be interesting to hear the audio of the other 31 teams during a defensive meeting? What do you think they say or do?

And you didn't say anything regardingt Mike Smith's comments and how he coaches his players to spear defenseless WRs. No comment? Are you agreeing Mike Smith coaches his players to intentionally injure players?

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Old 10-10-2012, 06:58 PM   #5
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Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
Answer me this:

Do you think Mike Nolan coaches his defense to hit offensive players as hard as they can? Or do you think he tells them "don't hit them as hard as you can because you may hurt someone"?

And about the Williams speech: a lot has been made about that speech, and how Williams instructed his players to tear Michael Crabtree's ACL, kill Frank Gore's head and the body will die, etc etc etc Ok.. well, Crabtree's ACL was fine and dandy after the game. So was Frank Gore's head. If the Saints actually wanted to tear Crabtree's ACL, they could've. Look how easily the Jets hurt Reggie and Cushing in back to back games, and they even said they were going to do it (dotting players, putting hot sauce on players).

Off course, then some things come out, like how the Chiefs have "kill the head and the body will die" painted on a wall. The very NFLN had a segment about the Chiefs that brought this to light. They also ran a promo for their Sounds of the Game show where a 49er coach is telling his linemen "knock the piss out of him" (hmm wonder what that means)... I remember Mike Tomlin screaming at his defense "tear his f*ing head off" during a game I was watching (a very specific body part too)... and it makes you wonder, what do other teams say during their defensive meetings? Wouldn't it be interesting to hear the audio of the other 31 teams during a defensive meeting? What do you think they say or do?

And you didn't say anything regardingt Mike Smith's comments and how he coaches his players to spear defenseless WRs. No comment? Are you agreeing Mike Smith coaches his players to intentionally injure players?
Nothing wrong with telling your guys to hit offensive players as hard as you can. It becomes illegal when you offer up money to injure them, which is what they did. Smith never said he tells his guys to spear WRs.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:14 PM   #6
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Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

Originally Posted by Radical View Post
Nothing wrong with telling your guys to hit offensive players as hard as you can.
Maybe you need to read this article!

Falcons' Robinson fined $40k for illegal hit on Eagles' Maclin - NFL.com

Falcons coach Mike Smith said after the game that he believed it was a legal hit and "that's the way we teach it."

"My opinion didn't change," he said Monday before the NFL made its ruling.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:21 PM   #7
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Re: NFL re-issues bounty discipline**UPDATED**

Originally Posted by Radical View Post
Nothing wrong with telling your guys to hit offensive players as hard as you can. It becomes illegal when you offer up money to injure them, which is what they did. Smith never said he tells his guys to spear WRs.
Ok, let me get this straight:
Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, is good.
Hitting another as hard as you can with legal hits, even if the other gets hurt, but getting token reward if the other gets hurt, is intent to injure. I got it. Fantastic.

And yes, Mike Smith, when asked specifically about the cleary illegal hits Dunta Robinson landed on defenseless players with the intent to injure them (why else would you land an illegal hit on a defenseless player) he responded "that is how we teach them". He is clearly stating he coaches players to land illegal hits on defenseless players with the intent to injure them.

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