Resign please spags

SaintsBro · 10-29-2012, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by winmill1

Spags was setup for failure.

Part of me wants to see him "snap" while answering questions at the podium, go on a wild meltdown rant and actually tell us what he thinks about the whole darn situation. Would love to know what he really thinks. He has to be pulling his hair out over this mess.

winmill1 · 10-29-2012, 05:05 PM

Spags was setup up for failure:
The head coach isn't there to consult, or the real assistant Coach Vitt.
The Gm isn't there.
He is trying to coach playeres he doesn't know.
The leader of the D is not there to help.
The bounty thing is everywhere during the offseason.
Complete turmoil in the offseason.
He doesn't have the players he needs to run his D.

He could have just blitzed every down like Gregg Williams to try to hide the glaring weaknesses, but then he would have to start all over next year and this would put us in the same predicament next year. If he installs his D this year then some of the guys that we know we will have next year can help the new guys we get next year instead of having to train everyone from square A. Guys like Lofton, Jordan, Greer, Jenkins, Hicks, Gallette, Wilson can learn it the hard way this year and help the guys we pick up next year. I think we have to go through this. He will turn it around. We have to give him pass.

Jamessr · 10-29-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by winmill1

Spags was setup up for failure:
The head coach isn't there to consult, or the real assistant Coach Vitt.
The Gm isn't there.
He is trying to coach playeres he doesn't know.
The leader of the D is not there to help.
The bounty thing is everywhere during the offseason.
Complete turmoil in the offseason.
He doesn't have the players he needs to run his D.

He could have just blitzed every down like Gregg Williams to try to hide the glaring weaknesses, but then he would have to start all over next year and this would put us in the same predicament next year. If he installs his D this year then some of the guys that we know we will have next year can help the new guys we get next year instead of having to train everyone from square A. Guys like Lofton, Jordan, Greer, Jenkins, Hicks, Gallette, Wilson can learn it the hard way this year and help the guys we pick up next year. I think we have to go through this. He will turn it around. We have to give him pass.

Totally agree with this. Now do you keep Sprags for next year knowing he'll be able to work along side of Payton?
I might get flamed for this but yeah I would...

Ashley · 10-29-2012, 06:01 PM

Spags is not going anywhere. Even if he was the problem, With no HC, or Gm who would do that. No One will...
Now as far as talent goes, clean house. We have a lot of trash, and I mean A LOT! This can be done, we have done it before and will do it again. I think SP has seen enough of this. I believe once he is back next year, things will change no doubt!!!

Danno · 10-29-2012, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ashley

Spags is not going anywhere. Even if he was the problem, With no HC, or Gm who would do that. No One will...
Now as far as talent goes, clean house. We have a lot of trash, and I mean A LOT! This can be done, we have done it before and will do it again. I think SP has seen enough of this. I believe once he is back next year, things will change no doubt!!!

Which players do you consider trash? Are you referring to starters who wouldn't even make decent backups?

We have enough talent as is to be middle of the pack IMO. 3 or 4 key additions and we're in the 10-15 range easily.

Ashley · 10-29-2012, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Which players do you consider trash? Are you referring to starters who wouldn't even make decent backups?

We have enough talent as is to be middle of the pack IMO. 3 or 4 key additions and we're in the 10-15 range easily.

Danno I usually agree with you on just about everything, but with Alabama. But you really think we have talent? Who. In my eye I only see just a few. I think we only have one lb. You should know who I am referring too. On the line who do you think? Smith is old and is in the past. Hicks is the only one I like up there. Your going to say Cam Jordan, he is good but is not playing like a first round. Aldon Smith is playing like a first round pick. Yes he was the 7th pick over all. But Cam was 24th. Huge difference, yes they are not the same style player. They are both ends and both first round picks. SO lets keep him.
Now in the Back field I only like Greer and Johnny Patrick, the rest are what they are trash. Corey white maybe. Safeties ??? I do like Harper but slow and not the best in coverage.
I know we cant drop them all, but I am just pissed about all the 1st rounders we have back there that are not playing like 1st rounders.
I know that Harper was not a first and some of the other ones I am talking about are not. But this team needs more than just a few to be in the middle of the pack

Danno · 10-29-2012, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ashley

Danno I usually agree with you on just about everything, but with Alabama. But you really think we have talent? Who. In my eye I only see just a few. I think we only have one lb. You should know who I am referring too. On the line who do you think? Smith is old and is in the past. Hicks is the only one I like up there. Your going to say Cam Jordan, he is good but is not playing like a first round. Aldon Smith is playing like a first round pick. Yes he was the 7th pick over all. But Cam was 24th. Huge difference, yes they are not the same style player. They are both ends and both first round picks. SO lets keep him.
Now in the Back field I only like Greer and Johnny Patrick, the rest are what they are trash. Corey white maybe. Safeties ??? I do like Harper but slow and not the best in coverage.
I know we cant drop them all, but I am just pissed about all the 1st rounders we have back there that are not playing like 1st rounders.
I know that Harper was not a first and some of the other ones I am talking about are not. But this team needs more than just a few to be in the middle of the pack

I think adding a stud DE, 2 OLB' and another CB and this defense can definitely finish in the 10-15 range.

When I hear trash, I think of players who wouldn't even be in the league if we cut them. We only have a couple of those.

Will Smith is grossly overpaid, but certainly not trash. I think Jordan, Bunkley, Hicks, Lofton, Vilma, Greer, Smith and Harper are all above average players.

I think Jenkins and Robinson still have potential, although I am losing faith in both.

The only starting players I think are below average are Ellis and Shanle, and whoever starts opposite Shanle (Casillas, Hawthorne etc).

FinSaint · 10-29-2012, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I think adding a stud DE, 2 OLB' and another CB and this defense can definitely finish in the 10-15 range.

Will Smith is grossly overpaid, but certainly not trash. I think Jordan, Bunkley, Hicks, Lofton, Vilma, Greer, Smith and Harper are all above average players.

I think Jenkins and Robinson still have potential, although I am losing faith in both.

Will Smith overpaid?!

While this season his cap hit is "only" $5,4M, it'll be much worse for the upcoming seasons. His cap hit for next season will be $14,5M and for 2014 it'll be $13,9M, and that is definitely an outrageous overpayment.

The problem is also that only Ellis and Shanle are going to be FAs after this season from the "problem players" most of us have identified, so I'm not sure how big of a difference a season will bring to this defensive roster.

Casillas, Galette, and McBride are the only other defensive UFAs come next offseason, from the players who actually see some playing time. So, either they're going to keep this defensive roster largely intact for next season or the front office is going to have to pull off some really awesome trade-magic from out of nowhere... or they're going to have to cut some players with remaining guaranteed money on their contracts in order to make some room for new additions, but how would they then pay those new guys?! Any way you look at it, it's going to be very difficult to blow up this defensive roster or even have a significant amount of turnover for the next couple of seasons.

FinSaint · 10-29-2012, 08:21 PM

Honestly, I was more angry at the offense than the defense while watching the game against the Broncos. Naturally, it could be that I was expecting the defense to be rather poor, but you can't expect to win a game if you can't score more than 7 points in a game - because that late TD doesn't even count in my mind - that is if you aren't the Browns playing the Chargers. The playcalling was horrible and the execution was even more atrocious.

As for Spags and his DC capabilities... I'm still supporting him for better or (the much more likely) worse. Maybe it's just my stubbornness, but since I really wanted to see him in New Orleans, I just can't bail on him now, because there are numerous outside factors that have affected how this season has gone. It would've been interesting to see how things would've worked out with SP as the HC and no BountyGate ever having been surfaced, but I guess all the would've could've should've's in the world don't make much difference now.

Still, I hope Spags remains as the DC and hopefully he'll be able to abandon some of the things he would like to do with the Saints' defense in order to do some other things that the current defensive players are capable of doing successfully. Then maybe next year with some key additions and subtractions to the defensive line-up the Saints' defense will look and perform much better. I guess the silver lining here is that the only way is up for the Saints' defense after this season.

I know I'm in the minority, but that is how I feel... at the moment.

Rell&Gold · 10-29-2012, 09:53 PM

The Defense in one word: TERRIBLE! they're consistently burnt on the back end, being pushed back on the line, linebackers dont get offf blocks. Will Smith is barely avg. he gets washed down for the cutback everytime Sed Ellis is Horrific when on the field Akiem shows promise. Pat Robinson gets burned because he always tries to press against bigger /stronger WR's. I agree with Danno I dont think we need a 'Genocide' just 5 additions and let spags do Spags w/ what he wants we do need: CB,S,DE,OLB,T. I blame the players they have to WANT to be better they make the same mistakes week in week out thats not spags Wide open WR's. But there are bright spots NOT alot but some Abdul and Akiem I still see potential in Corey White. Spags one full season w/ Payton and with a feel for what he needs on defense I got us next year being a top 10-15 defense. Go SAINTS! I still see potential idk why but I do

10-29-2012, 05:21 PM	#1
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Resign please spags Originally Posted by winmill1 Spags was setup for failure. Part of me wants to see him "snap" while answering questions at the podium, go on a wild meltdown rant and actually tell us what he thinks about the whole darn situation. Would love to know what he really thinks. He has to be pulling his hair out over this mess. CharityMike and Rell&Gold like this.

10-29-2012, 05:05 PM	#2
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426	Re: Resign please spags Spags was setup up for failure: The head coach isn't there to consult, or the real assistant Coach Vitt. The Gm isn't there. He is trying to coach playeres he doesn't know. The leader of the D is not there to help. The bounty thing is everywhere during the offseason. Complete turmoil in the offseason. He doesn't have the players he needs to run his D. He could have just blitzed every down like Gregg Williams to try to hide the glaring weaknesses, but then he would have to start all over next year and this would put us in the same predicament next year. If he installs his D this year then some of the guys that we know we will have next year can help the new guys we get next year instead of having to train everyone from square A. Guys like Lofton, Jordan, Greer, Jenkins, Hicks, Gallette, Wilson can learn it the hard way this year and help the guys we pick up next year. I think we have to go through this. He will turn it around. We have to give him pass. spkb25 likes this.
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426

10-29-2012, 05:15 PM	#3
Jamessr 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 1,583	Re: Resign please spags Originally Posted by winmill1 Spags was setup up for failure: The head coach isn't there to consult, or the real assistant Coach Vitt. The Gm isn't there. He is trying to coach playeres he doesn't know. The leader of the D is not there to help. The bounty thing is everywhere during the offseason. Complete turmoil in the offseason. He doesn't have the players he needs to run his D. He could have just blitzed every down like Gregg Williams to try to hide the glaring weaknesses, but then he would have to start all over next year and this would put us in the same predicament next year. If he installs his D this year then some of the guys that we know we will have next year can help the new guys we get next year instead of having to train everyone from square A. Guys like Lofton, Jordan, Greer, Jenkins, Hicks, Gallette, Wilson can learn it the hard way this year and help the guys we pick up next year. I think we have to go through this. He will turn it around. We have to give him pass. Totally agree with this. Now do you keep Sprags for next year knowing he'll be able to work along side of Payton? I might get flamed for this but yeah I would... Rell&Gold likes this.

10-29-2012, 06:01 PM	#4
Ashley Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Co Posts: 2,760	Re: Resign please spags Spags is not going anywhere. Even if he was the problem, With no HC, or Gm who would do that. No One will... Now as far as talent goes, clean house. We have a lot of trash, and I mean A LOT! This can be done, we have done it before and will do it again. I think SP has seen enough of this. I believe once he is back next year, things will change no doubt!!! Rell&Gold likes this.

10-29-2012, 06:17 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Re: Resign please spags Originally Posted by Ashley Spags is not going anywhere. Even if he was the problem, With no HC, or Gm who would do that. No One will... Now as far as talent goes, clean house. We have a lot of trash, and I mean A LOT! This can be done, we have done it before and will do it again. I think SP has seen enough of this. I believe once he is back next year, things will change no doubt!!! Which players do you consider trash? Are you referring to starters who wouldn't even make decent backups? We have enough talent as is to be middle of the pack IMO. 3 or 4 key additions and we're in the 10-15 range easily.

10-29-2012, 06:42 PM	#6
Ashley Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Co Posts: 2,760	Re: Resign please spags Originally Posted by Danno Which players do you consider trash? Are you referring to starters who wouldn't even make decent backups? We have enough talent as is to be middle of the pack IMO. 3 or 4 key additions and we're in the 10-15 range easily. Danno I usually agree with you on just about everything, but with Alabama. But you really think we have talent? Who. In my eye I only see just a few. I think we only have one lb. You should know who I am referring too. On the line who do you think? Smith is old and is in the past. Hicks is the only one I like up there. Your going to say Cam Jordan, he is good but is not playing like a first round. Aldon Smith is playing like a first round pick. Yes he was the 7th pick over all. But Cam was 24th. Huge difference, yes they are not the same style player. They are both ends and both first round picks. SO lets keep him. Now in the Back field I only like Greer and Johnny Patrick, the rest are what they are trash. Corey white maybe. Safeties ??? I do like Harper but slow and not the best in coverage. I know we cant drop them all, but I am just pissed about all the 1st rounders we have back there that are not playing like 1st rounders. I know that Harper was not a first and some of the other ones I am talking about are not. But this team needs more than just a few to be in the middle of the pack spkb25 and Rell&Gold like this.
	I HATE ATLANTA

10-29-2012, 08:58 PM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Re: Resign please spags Originally Posted by Ashley Danno I usually agree with you on just about everything, but with Alabama. But you really think we have talent? Who. In my eye I only see just a few. I think we only have one lb. You should know who I am referring too. On the line who do you think? Smith is old and is in the past. Hicks is the only one I like up there. Your going to say Cam Jordan, he is good but is not playing like a first round. Aldon Smith is playing like a first round pick. Yes he was the 7th pick over all. But Cam was 24th. Huge difference, yes they are not the same style player. They are both ends and both first round picks. SO lets keep him. Now in the Back field I only like Greer and Johnny Patrick, the rest are what they are trash. Corey white maybe. Safeties ??? I do like Harper but slow and not the best in coverage. I know we cant drop them all, but I am just pissed about all the 1st rounders we have back there that are not playing like 1st rounders. I know that Harper was not a first and some of the other ones I am talking about are not. But this team needs more than just a few to be in the middle of the pack I think adding a stud DE, 2 OLB' and another CB and this defense can definitely finish in the 10-15 range. When I hear trash, I think of players who wouldn't even be in the league if we cut them. We only have a couple of those. Will Smith is grossly overpaid, but certainly not trash. I think Jordan, Bunkley, Hicks, Lofton, Vilma, Greer, Smith and Harper are all above average players. I think Jenkins and Robinson still have potential, although I am losing faith in both. The only starting players I think are below average are Ellis and Shanle, and whoever starts opposite Shanle (Casillas, Hawthorne etc).

10-29-2012, 10:12 PM	#8
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Resign please spags Originally Posted by Danno I think adding a stud DE, 2 OLB' and another CB and this defense can definitely finish in the 10-15 range. Will Smith is grossly overpaid, but certainly not trash. I think Jordan, Bunkley, Hicks, Lofton, Vilma, Greer, Smith and Harper are all above average players. I think Jenkins and Robinson still have potential, although I am losing faith in both. Will Smith overpaid?! While this season his cap hit is "only" $5,4M, it'll be much worse for the upcoming seasons. His cap hit for next season will be $14,5M and for 2014 it'll be $13,9M, and that is definitely an outrageous overpayment. The problem is also that only Ellis and Shanle are going to be FAs after this season from the "problem players" most of us have identified, so I'm not sure how big of a difference a season will bring to this defensive roster. Casillas, Galette, and McBride are the only other defensive UFAs come next offseason, from the players who actually see some playing time. So, either they're going to keep this defensive roster largely intact for next season or the front office is going to have to pull off some really awesome trade-magic from out of nowhere... or they're going to have to cut some players with remaining guaranteed money on their contracts in order to make some room for new additions, but how would they then pay those new guys?! Any way you look at it, it's going to be very difficult to blow up this defensive roster or even have a significant amount of turnover for the next couple of seasons.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-29-2012, 08:21 PM	#9
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Resign please spags Honestly, I was more angry at the offense than the defense while watching the game against the Broncos. Naturally, it could be that I was expecting the defense to be rather poor, but you can't expect to win a game if you can't score more than 7 points in a game - because that late TD doesn't even count in my mind - that is if you aren't the Browns playing the Chargers. The playcalling was horrible and the execution was even more atrocious. As for Spags and his DC capabilities... I'm still supporting him for better or (the much more likely) worse. Maybe it's just my stubbornness, but since I really wanted to see him in New Orleans, I just can't bail on him now, because there are numerous outside factors that have affected how this season has gone. It would've been interesting to see how things would've worked out with SP as the HC and no BountyGate ever having been surfaced, but I guess all the would've could've should've's in the world don't make much difference now. Still, I hope Spags remains as the DC and hopefully he'll be able to abandon some of the things he would like to do with the Saints' defense in order to do some other things that the current defensive players are capable of doing successfully. Then maybe next year with some key additions and subtractions to the defensive line-up the Saints' defense will look and perform much better. I guess the silver lining here is that the only way is up for the Saints' defense after this season. I know I'm in the minority, but that is how I feel... at the moment.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

10-29-2012, 09:53 PM	#10
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,891	Re: Resign please spags The Defense in one word: TERRIBLE! they're consistently burnt on the back end, being pushed back on the line, linebackers dont get offf blocks. Will Smith is barely avg. he gets washed down for the cutback everytime Sed Ellis is Horrific when on the field Akiem shows promise. Pat Robinson gets burned because he always tries to press against bigger /stronger WR's. I agree with Danno I dont think we need a 'Genocide' just 5 additions and let spags do Spags w/ what he wants we do need: CB,S,DE,OLB,T. I blame the players they have to WANT to be better they make the same mistakes week in week out thats not spags Wide open WR's. But there are bright spots NOT alot but some Abdul and Akiem I still see potential in Corey White. Spags one full season w/ Payton and with a feel for what he needs on defense I got us next year being a top 10-15 defense. Go SAINTS! I still see potential idk why but I do

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