Mark Ingram's role becoming clear

11-28-2012, 09:45 PM

Ingram needs carries to succeed at this level. just like ray rice, trent richardson, the ugliest guy in sports(seattle rb), gore, spiller. and so on. teams with a 1 man show back there, u give the guy 25 plays hes going to get u 100+ yds a game. and he will get that possibly in 2013 or 14. hes running now like he did in alabama. he knows he has to stay noticed.

TheOak · 11-29-2012, 07:56 AM

I just do not see it being all on Ingram. Its our line..

If it is however Ingram, and he needs 25 carries per game to break 100 yards he may want to try another league. He is not going to be the all star workhorse getting 30% of the snaps averaging 3.7 YPC in this NFL.

Peterson has had 25 carries in only 2 games this season.
Marshawn Lynch 25+ only 4 games.
Doug martin 25+ only 2 games.
Chris Johnson 25+ only 1 game.

Consistently Arian Foster gets 25+ carries a game but there is a reason for that. He fkn earned that.

Foster and Lynch are the ONLY 2 RBs in the NFL that average over 20 carries per game.

SaintsBro · 11-29-2012, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

if I could get one or two who I knew would be there healthy when I needed!!!!

We tried that already, it didn't work, maybe you don't remember '10? That's a huge part of why Ingram is here. That's basically why the "3-headed monster" of Thomas/Bush/Bell in '09 has become the "four headed monster" of today.

Also, people tend to argue in circles about this stuff, I do like the discussion, it's fun. But I say, again and again, Mark Ingram is here for TOMORROW, not today. He is very likely going to be the guy who takes Pierre's place as workhorse back in 3-4 years. The same way Pierre was groomed to take the mantle over from Deuce. We're just not seeing it yet.

NOS2SB · 11-29-2012, 08:40 AM

I know this thread is about Ingram, but I think Sproles is going to have a big game tonight. He didn't play the first match.

TheOak · 11-29-2012, 08:59 AM

I see Ingram getting traded, and Ivory (if he stays healthy this season) becoming the work horse.

We will transition to a hard up the middle ground game, the o-line is not protecting for screens like it used to, Brees arm is not as strong as it used to be. We will still and always be a pass first offense, but the ground game will change.

For the dynamic parts of our run game Cadet will transition into the Sproles/PT option.

PT is healthy and hasn't touched the ball more than 10 times in a game since Denver. 3.7 YPC carry Ingramis being put to the test and he is not going to be around after this season.

Shoe. · 11-29-2012, 01:56 PM

I just cannot believe there will be much of any trading of RBs going on in the offseason. SP moved up to draft Ingram, meaning he clearly likes him, and last season was even quoted as saying (and I'm paraphrasing here), that HE (SP) was the only reason that Ingram wasn't rookie of the year. Now SP has had to sit and watch as someone else plays with his new toy.

All of our RBs are very talented and like Oak said above, we are going to be transitioning our game as Brees continues to age. He's accurate as all heck but his 'zip' is beginning to fade ever so slightly. Just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that we will be losing a RB with his potential and, more importantly, his price tag. Plus, what has he done that will attract potential suitors? We would get very little value for him in a trade, and certainly nothing close to the price we paid.

I suspect we will see more releases of veterans and FA signings to bolster the defense some more than to try to mess much with the offense, IMO

TheOak · 11-29-2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Shoe.

I just cannot believe there will be much of any trading of RBs going on in the offseason. SP moved up to draft Ingram, meaning he clearly likes him, and last season was even quoted as saying (and I'm paraphrasing here), that HE (SP) was the only reason that Ingram wasn't rookie of the year. Now SP has had to sit and watch as someone else plays with his new toy.

All of our RBs are very talented and like Oak said above, we are going to be transitioning our game as Brees continues to age. He's accurate as all heck but his 'zip' is beginning to fade ever so slightly. Just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that we will be losing a RB with his potential and, more importantly, his price tag. Plus, what has he done that will attract potential suitors? We would get very little value for him in a trade, and certainly nothing close to the price we paid.

I suspect we will see more releases of veterans and FA signings to bolster the defense some more than to try to mess much with the offense, IMO

He has a 7.4mm 4 year deal (FA 2015), we are deep at RB, and we need cap space next year.

Ivory ia 1.2mm and restricted free agent next year.
PT is a 11mm 4 year deal.. FA 2015
Cadet is 1.55mm RFA 2015
Sproles is 14mm FA 2015.

Ingram has the lowest ROI. The least preforming for the $... Someone will take him just as they did Ricky Williams and Reggie Bush... Hell Miami might make it a triple crown.

Danno · 11-29-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

He has a 7.4mm 4 year deal (FA 2015), we are deep at RB, and we need cap space next year.

Ivory ia 1.2mm and restricted free agent next year.
PT is a 11mm 4 year deal.. FA 2015
Cadet is 1.55mm RFA 2015
Sproles is 14mm FA 2015.

Ingram has the lowest ROI. The least preforming for the $... Someone will take him just as they did Ricky Williams and Reggie Bush... Hell Miami might make it a triple crown.

Looking at actual 2012 investment...

Sproles - 4.25 million
Thomas - 2.26 million
Igram - 1.7 million
Ivory - 0.6 Million
Cadet - 0.4 million

I think its clear who has the worst ROI, and it isn't Ingram.

SaintsBro · 11-29-2012, 04:03 PM

Hmmm. I may start hating wildly on Sproles, just to make these conversations more interesting. That little guy is TOTALLY OVER RATED. I mean he flipped Aldon Smith in a somersault flying through the air, he caught the yardage record-breaking pass from Brees, and led the league in all purpose yards last year, but other than that, WHAT HAS HE DONE FOR US LATELY? LOL

Shoe. · 11-29-2012, 05:30 PM

I guess I see it this way-

If you were another team's GM looking at our stable of backs, who would you want/not want, and why?

Personally, I would want either PT or Ivory. Sproles is too old and is no longer workhorse material, but a great checkdown option nonetheless. Ingram just doesn't have a supporting body of work that makes him desirable, (unless you're counting college, which really falls into the 'what have you done for me lately' category, IMO) and worth picking up his contract.

PT is good, but too expensive for his age/recent production to warrant any poaching worries. And he'll probably restructure after this year anyway, so his cap hit probably won't be as bad as it looks right now

So if anybody is worried about losing a back, worry about losing Ivory because he's cheap, runs hard, and is a UFA next year with a good supporting body of work over more than one season (minus a few untimely fumbles, which he seems to have corrected this season, and injuries, which also have not been a problem so far. He looks a little better in the blocking game as well, but I only saw him a lay a couple of decent blocks in the 9ers game).

Talk about return on investment, he makes a strong case for better value in a trade IMO, much more so than any of our other backs

But again, I just don't see us getting rid of these guys. SP was setting something up, and I wanna see what it was

11-28-2012, 09:45 PM	#51
Threaded by st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753 Rating: (0 votes - average) Ingram needs carries to succeed at this level. just like ray rice, trent richardson, the ugliest guy in sports(seattle rb), gore, spiller. and so on. teams with a 1 man show back there, u give the guy 25 plays hes going to get u 100+ yds a game. and he will get that possibly in 2013 or 14. hes running now like he did in alabama. he knows he has to stay noticed.
Views: 21406

11-29-2012, 07:56 AM	#52
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear I just do not see it being all on Ingram. Its our line.. If it is however Ingram, and he needs 25 carries per game to break 100 yards he may want to try another league. He is not going to be the all star workhorse getting 30% of the snaps averaging 3.7 YPC in this NFL. Peterson has had 25 carries in only 2 games this season. Marshawn Lynch 25+ only 4 games. Doug martin 25+ only 2 games. Chris Johnson 25+ only 1 game. Consistently Arian Foster gets 25+ carries a game but there is a reason for that. He fkn earned that. Foster and Lynch are the ONLY 2 RBs in the NFL that average over 20 carries per game.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

11-29-2012, 08:21 AM	#53
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear Originally Posted by alleycat_126 if I could get one or two who I knew would be there healthy when I needed!!!! We tried that already, it didn't work, maybe you don't remember '10? That's a huge part of why Ingram is here. That's basically why the "3-headed monster" of Thomas/Bush/Bell in '09 has become the "four headed monster" of today. Also, people tend to argue in circles about this stuff, I do like the discussion, it's fun. But I say, again and again, Mark Ingram is here for TOMORROW, not today. He is very likely going to be the guy who takes Pierre's place as workhorse back in 3-4 years. The same way Pierre was groomed to take the mantle over from Deuce. We're just not seeing it yet. Shoe. likes this.

11-29-2012, 08:40 AM	#54
NOS2SB Shampoo Join Date: May 2011 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 454	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear I know this thread is about Ingram, but I think Sproles is going to have a big game tonight. He didn't play the first match. SaintsBro likes this.

11-29-2012, 08:59 AM	#55
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear I see Ingram getting traded, and Ivory (if he stays healthy this season) becoming the work horse. We will transition to a hard up the middle ground game, the o-line is not protecting for screens like it used to, Brees arm is not as strong as it used to be. We will still and always be a pass first offense, but the ground game will change. For the dynamic parts of our run game Cadet will transition into the Sproles/PT option. PT is healthy and hasn't touched the ball more than 10 times in a game since Denver. 3.7 YPC carry Ingramis being put to the test and he is not going to be around after this season.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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11-29-2012, 01:56 PM	#56
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear I just cannot believe there will be much of any trading of RBs going on in the offseason. SP moved up to draft Ingram, meaning he clearly likes him, and last season was even quoted as saying (and I'm paraphrasing here), that HE (SP) was the only reason that Ingram wasn't rookie of the year. Now SP has had to sit and watch as someone else plays with his new toy. All of our RBs are very talented and like Oak said above, we are going to be transitioning our game as Brees continues to age. He's accurate as all heck but his 'zip' is beginning to fade ever so slightly. Just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that we will be losing a RB with his potential and, more importantly, his price tag. Plus, what has he done that will attract potential suitors? We would get very little value for him in a trade, and certainly nothing close to the price we paid. I suspect we will see more releases of veterans and FA signings to bolster the defense some more than to try to mess much with the offense, IMO

11-29-2012, 02:05 PM	#57
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear Originally Posted by Shoe. I just cannot believe there will be much of any trading of RBs going on in the offseason. SP moved up to draft Ingram, meaning he clearly likes him, and last season was even quoted as saying (and I'm paraphrasing here), that HE (SP) was the only reason that Ingram wasn't rookie of the year. Now SP has had to sit and watch as someone else plays with his new toy. All of our RBs are very talented and like Oak said above, we are going to be transitioning our game as Brees continues to age. He's accurate as all heck but his 'zip' is beginning to fade ever so slightly. Just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe that we will be losing a RB with his potential and, more importantly, his price tag. Plus, what has he done that will attract potential suitors? We would get very little value for him in a trade, and certainly nothing close to the price we paid. I suspect we will see more releases of veterans and FA signings to bolster the defense some more than to try to mess much with the offense, IMO He has a 7.4mm 4 year deal (FA 2015), we are deep at RB, and we need cap space next year. Ivory ia 1.2mm and restricted free agent next year. PT is a 11mm 4 year deal.. FA 2015 Cadet is 1.55mm RFA 2015 Sproles is 14mm FA 2015. Ingram has the lowest ROI. The least preforming for the $... Someone will take him just as they did Ricky Williams and Reggie Bush... Hell Miami might make it a triple crown.

11-29-2012, 03:07 PM	#58
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear Originally Posted by TheOak He has a 7.4mm 4 year deal (FA 2015), we are deep at RB, and we need cap space next year. Ivory ia 1.2mm and restricted free agent next year. PT is a 11mm 4 year deal.. FA 2015 Cadet is 1.55mm RFA 2015 Sproles is 14mm FA 2015. Ingram has the lowest ROI. The least preforming for the $... Someone will take him just as they did Ricky Williams and Reggie Bush... Hell Miami might make it a triple crown. Looking at actual 2012 investment... Sproles - 4.25 million Thomas - 2.26 million Igram - 1.7 million Ivory - 0.6 Million Cadet - 0.4 million I think its clear who has the worst ROI, and it isn't Ingram.

11-29-2012, 04:03 PM	#59
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear Hmmm. I may start hating wildly on Sproles, just to make these conversations more interesting. That little guy is TOTALLY OVER RATED. I mean he flipped Aldon Smith in a somersault flying through the air, he caught the yardage record-breaking pass from Brees, and led the league in all purpose yards last year, but other than that, WHAT HAS HE DONE FOR US LATELY? LOL TheOak likes this.

11-29-2012, 05:30 PM	#60
Shoe. 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Hub City Posts: 576	Re: Mark Ingram's role becoming clear I guess I see it this way- If you were another team's GM looking at our stable of backs, who would you want/not want, and why? Personally, I would want either PT or Ivory. Sproles is too old and is no longer workhorse material, but a great checkdown option nonetheless. Ingram just doesn't have a supporting body of work that makes him desirable, (unless you're counting college, which really falls into the 'what have you done for me lately' category, IMO) and worth picking up his contract. PT is good, but too expensive for his age/recent production to warrant any poaching worries. And he'll probably restructure after this year anyway, so his cap hit probably won't be as bad as it looks right now So if anybody is worried about losing a back, worry about losing Ivory because he's cheap, runs hard, and is a UFA next year with a good supporting body of work over more than one season (minus a few untimely fumbles, which he seems to have corrected this season, and injuries, which also have not been a problem so far. He looks a little better in the blocking game as well, but I only saw him a lay a couple of decent blocks in the 9ers game). Talk about return on investment, he makes a strong case for better value in a trade IMO, much more so than any of our other backs But again, I just don't see us getting rid of these guys. SP was setting something up, and I wanna see what it was

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